Friendships in the IT Workplace?

Greg Cantori asks: "We've seen stuff like this on TV and in movies. Policemen, Firemen, Astonauts, Army guys, etc, all gathered round a BBQ on a sunny weekend, chugging a few cold ones and maybe talking shop, wives and girlfriends preparing salads, kids running round the garden. Middle class bonding and fun, eh? Now, picture your IT workplace. Look around at your workmates. Do *you* get together on weekends? Do your spouses know any personal details of your workmates' spouses, beyond what may have slipped out during a long forgotten company Chistmas ball? Do you go bowling, play poker, or help your colleagues pave the driveway of their new home? Do you even have drinks with them after work? Is it just the professions who share some element of physical danger where this stereotypical bonding occurs, or can it occur with nerdy programmers? What are your experiences with friendships in the code-cutting office?"

Comments

Friendship in the office

[iBod]

About a year ago, I stopped working in an office and now work full time from my office at home.

I get more done and have less distractions but I really do miss the social interaction, the gossip, the afterwork beers etc.

Why is there always this stereotypical assumption that because you cut code for a living you must be some kind of antisocial, introverted misfit? Coders have friends too y'know.

Re:Friendship in the office

[GTRacer]

Hmmm...maybe it's just me, but my general non-need for social interaction is one thing that led me to my career choice of I/T.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lovely wife of 7 years and 2 kids, and we have a few friends we hang out with. We go to movies, dinners out, theme parks, all kinds of places with people.

What I don't get is many people's apparent need for several close friendships. How on earth are you supposed to have time to work 10-hour days, spend quality time with the family and still have personal time greater than 15 minutes a night if you have a whole bunch of friends you feel compelled to socialize with?

I'd much rather be playing Ace Combat 4 or GTA3 than trying to hold up one end of a "status" fiendship any day!

GTRacer
- Likes people, more or less...

Ask Slashdot?

[Accipiter]

Okay, is social behavior THAT strange a task that we need an Ask Slashdot article about it? I'm still not clear on what the question is, but it seems to boil down to this:

"Am I allowed to be friends with everyone at work?"

You know, most people you work with do enjoy having fun. And most people you work with usually have fun with their friends. Now, if you're a friend of theirs, chances are they'll want to have fun and invite you along. Why? Because you're their friend. That is how friendships work.

I didn't realize this was such a complicated subject. People who are compatible will gravitate toward one another, regardless of the venue.

What do you need, written instructions?

Re:Ask Slashdot?

[Masem]

Actually, there's more of a trick to this than you think.

Any other field outside of IT, where people rarely work more than 40-50hrs a week, it's quite common for workers to mingle after work in activities, have parties for other coworkers, etc. Since you only see these people for maybe upwards of an hour a day on average, they can be friends, or if you have problematic workers, you only have to deal with them for a short time, and thus they don't cause too much social trauma in the workplace. Additionally, 40 hr/wk, plus, say, an addition 10hr/wk with coworker activities, still leaves plenty of personal and family time, so it's balanced well.

In IT, where it's very easy to be required to work 60hr+/wk, you're seeing your coworkers a lot more than just an 1hr a day, and particularly if you have annoying coworkers, every extra minute can add up. Because you're now spending more time at work, you also tend to value your personal time more, and doing outside-work activities with coworkers probably loses out to getting away from them. And typically IT work can be a stressful job given the typical 'gap' between what the IT worker knows and what the customer knows, with the IT worker having to try to bridge that gap. All those factors make for the IT workplace to be potentially socially-stressed.

That's not to say that every IT workplace is like that, and I think that's the gist of this question; is there a commonality to social life of the IT workplace, or are their shining examples or dreadful situations that are worth hearing about?

Re:Ask Slashdot?

[bla]

I've made the experience that IT people generally lack social skills. Some more, some less, but I don't know a IT professional who's a 'party animal'. But maybe I just know the wrong people :-)

i know a lot of "IT geeks" that are complete party animals. most of my friends, actually :) their after-work activities consist mostly of either getting completely stoned and playing PS2 or going to raves/clubs/parties, etc.

one thing we don't do, however, is have BBQs where the guys sit around a throw back a few while the wives prepare salad and yell at the kids. largely this is because we're mostly too young to have kids, but it's also because all the girls in our group are equally IT geeks. we're a bunch of programmers, admins, and graphics people, and that's not delimited by sex at all. the attitudes are different in IT, i think, than in the professions listed in the original question. *shrug* YMMV. but that's been my experience.

Re:Ask Slashdot?

[bataras]

>>>1. Say in the interview: "What are your hours like? Do people work overtime? Do people take comp time if they do?" Follow up: "If you're looking for someone to work 50-60 hours a week, I'm not your man."

Dude, we just posted a req for an engineer and got like 300 resumes. If you're asking about work hours, you're asking for a short interview.

Re:Jeez.

[b_pretender]

Mountain bicycling is the bridges all social gaps.
Buy mountain bikes.
Go to the local trail for some practice and then drop a few hints around the office that you like to ride. You'll hanging out and drinking beer with co-workers in no time.

I hate to say it, but I'm a stereotype: no life

[Anonymous Coward]

(Posting anonymously to preserve my anonymity.)

After work I take the bus to a Chinese restaurant and eat dinner, then I either go to a book store or straight home. At home I get on the computer, or a play on my keyboards (musical, not computer).

Even on the weekends I don't do much socially. I do some volunteer work at a nature center, but other than that I spend most of the weekends reading and writing.

So although I do have a life outside of computers - music, books, writing, nature - I really don't have a social life, and you can forget any thought of friendship with my co-workers.

I guess the stereotypes are true to an extent: I don't make friends easily and my interests are very esoteric by "normal" standards, so I spend a lot of time alone. I am looking forward to the Lord of the Rings movies, but that's pretty geeky in itself. (And I'm really bad here, anyway. As I said to someone on a message board "U-pedon i lam in Gelydh. Pedon Sindarin." *sigh* Yes, I actually speak Elvish.)

I guess my social ineptitude is partially a result of the whole "geek angst" experience: beat up by the "cool" kids in school; most school kids didn't want to be friends with me; chess club, RPG club, band. I've also got manic-depression thrown in to the mix, though, with a heavy emphasis on the depression. That didn't help any.

So do I have friends among my coworkers? No. They aren't like me. Even working in the computer industry.

THIS guy has it right.

[HanzoSan]

You are correct. Its absolutely STUPID to bring your personal life to your work, because eventually someone at work is going ot ruin your life to get a raise, or a promotion, or whatever, then where does that leave you?

Well now you'll be depressed because you thought person X who used you as a stepping stone was your friend.

Having friends are work is just dumb, dont you people learn anything from Steve jobs and bill gates?

Re:The Boss keeps repeating this phrase --

[Anixamander]

I tell my employees that, albeit worded a bit differently...

"Don't shit where you eat"

Office friendships are fine, office relationships (of the romantic type) are strongly discouraged.

Re:Computer programmers naturally solitary

[SquierStrat]

I'd disagree.

Some people who are heavily into IT are naturally solitary. Just like some people who are heavily into bar-tending are naturally solitary types, or just like how some people who are heavily into skeet-shooting are naturally solitary types. The two have nothing to do with each other. It's just SOME people are like that!

friends, life, and neuroscience

[chaos421]

aside from the fact that you cannot ever "fish off the company pier," great friendships can, in my opinion, be made at work. for instance, my boss and i are going on a week long ski trip in january with friends and family. occasionally, the guys here go out to play "pasture pool" (read: golf). however, one cannot have friends from only one locale. if all your friends are at work, you're in for trouble.

the moral of the story: make friends, and do it often.

What about....

[SomeOtherGuy]

people that don't drink. Hell, I am reading through all of these messages (and look at the "socializing" that happens in my office) and it's easy to see that someone who does not partake in mass quantities of alcohol usually will have nothing to participate in.

Work is better with friends

[Christopher Bibbs]

Let's see. I go riding (motorcycles) with my boss and a few of the other guys at his level. I stood up in another developers wedding. I've gone drinking with just about everyone I work with. Oh, and we're going to go see "The One" this Wednesday after work.

Now, what has this cost me? Uh, I only got a total of 133% in raises over the last 4 years. Damn, I'll bet the guy who was in my wedding screwed me over. Oh, and there was that time when they gave me choice of projects. I'll bet my drinking buddy was holding something back then. And all those nights out that got put on the expense report, that must have cost me about $0.01 dip in my stock value.

Having friends sucks! Except the time when a customer was bitching about me and everyone stood up for me because they knew me better. Maybe friends aren't so bad.

Re:True.

[stereo_Barryo]

Protect us from the mandated socializing! If you have a friend at work who wants to stop for a drink, fine. If your wife can stand his wife, have dinner and a movie. But if people in the company EXPECT you to join the happy hour ( for 3 hours! ) this is just extra strain on top of work. If they EXPECT you to get a gag gift for the Christmas party for someone you hardly know, this, too, is just extra strain. Enjoy your own friends and keep the company people at work!

holy shit!

[Ender Ryan]

Holy shit man, I am SO glad I do not work with YOU!

With that kind of attitude there must be a ton of backstabbing going on in your place of work. Of course you are all probably competing for raises and advancement, but if you can't trust each other then that is directly hindering your performance.

You have to be able to separate work from your social life, then you can compete for raises and still trust each other. Done correctly and maturely, you will acheive the best possible efficiency and you will also develop lasting friendships whether you like it or not.

Where I work, we're all pretty much friends, and it works out great. It's not always frictionless, but whenever there's a problem, that problem stays at work and is only dealt with at work. Our friendships may only help to quicken the resolution to the problem, not make it worse.

But whatever, enjoy living your life of backstabbing and distrust, it sounds like a load of fun...

Re:Work is NOT the place to make friends!!!!

[SnowDog_2112]

Let me clarify what I've said a couple of times -- that you can and should make good friends with coworkers.

You should always know that they are your coworkers, first and foremost. I don't advocate anywhere near the level of manipulative closed-heartedness Hanzo seems to be talking about, but you do have to be smart about it.

I have friends outside of work who know my exact salary. None of my work friends know that. When I get a bonus check, or an envelope full of stock options, the numbers on those letters don't find their way to my work friends. If my boss tells me something in confidence, there are some work friends who may hear about it, and others who may not. I make that judgment on an individual basis, and I make it very carefully.

You do have to use your head. You have to realize that these people play multiple roles in your life, and any time that happens, you have to be smart about it. It's not just co-worker/friend -- any time a person fills two or more roles in your life, you must be careful how you balance them in those multiple roles.

If you're the kind of person who has an on/off switch for friends, and can't be a bit more socially savvy about it, you might be best off leaving the switch on "off" for your coworkers.

But you'll miss out on some great potential friendships by doing that.

Re: I know what I want and need, all else is extra

[TeeWee]

But you see, that's not the choice I'm making. I have enough money to sustain the lifestyle I want. I also have a bit left over by the end of the month. And good enough future prospects which allows me not to worry too much about the future.

It's not go for the most money or worry about the bills, it's about choosing which bills you want, and going for enough money to meet those bills and seek the healthiest environment which meets that criterium.

Money is just one criterium, an important one, but not the only one, and for me, certainly not the most important one.

True Friends are..

[TarPitt]

Someone you still socialize with long after neither of you work for the same place.

At work you have professional associates. All previous mentioned issues about job politics are very true. I've found nothing more uncomfortable than a company "social event" where all the politics of the workplace are in full force.

It's who you still hang out with when you have long since parted ways with the company that makes a friend.

If you make a friend at work, you will not really know it until neither of you work together.

IT workers are a "younger" culture?

[lpontiac]

I think this might have a lot to do with the age of people who work in IT. While it's certainly not closed to older people, as far as I've seen there are definitely a *lot* more younger people in IT, proportionally, than in most other areas.

Younger people are more likely to have existing social cliques from college/university/highschool. And I think these sorts of relationships will tend to endure for longer these days than they would have 20 years ago - communications technology is far more widespread and accessible, and people working in IT in particular will tend to make use of it. Cheap phonecalls and email (not to mention cheaper airflight!) mean that moving away from someone is far less likely to lead to drifting apart.

I feel that a lot of "workplace socialisation" is due to people spending significant proportions of their lives in a workplace environment, socially gravitating towards the people in it. But given that the "younger IT-worker demographic" is more likely to maintain preexisting relationships, and less likely to spend years and years working with the same people, I don't think it's all that surprising that it doesn't happen a lot in IT.