Which of the Armed Forces is Better for IT-Types?

tang asks: "As a Computer Science major who will be graduating this year, I wanted to know the experiences of any slasdotters who have been/are in the military. I'm exploring my options after college, and wouldn't mind serving my country. The question is, which branch of the armed forces? Physical shape is no problem, I just wanted to know which branch would have the most use for a computer programmer. The army seems to have only slightly interesting computer positions, while the navy has some better ones. Will any particular branch give me better training for when I get out?" We've already argued the point of whether it's better to go to college or sign-up, so if one had their heart set on joining, which service is better if you are planning on a career in IT, afterwards?

Comments

Navy is the way to go

[Raven667]

While I was in the Air Force and liked many things about the experience (I think that they are the least obnoxiously uptight of the services) what little of the Navy IT system impressed me. I know everyone is going to point out the NT-on-a-ship thing but that story is mostly bogus anyway.

Anyway, what little I had to deal with Navy-built systems I found several examples of them being better designed (from an IT perspective) than our own Air Force stuff. My experience with the AF IT system as an ADPE manager was pretty horrible. The people I met weren't very bright or well trained, constantly understaffed (they only had 12 people, including networking, server, desktop and manager people trying vainly to support over 1500 desktop systems all over base) and had very poor tools (who's bright idea was basing the entire IT infrastructure on MS Outlook and NT (even for secure messaging) anyway!?!!!). The worst part was that they were completely incapable of supporting desktop Windows users, they didn't even have a helpdesk, and everyone had to fend for themselves (including software and hardware purchasing.) Unless things have changed you would find the constant disaster very frustrating.

Oh, and I know everyone already told you this but Don't Trust Recruiters. When they aren't lying to you because they honestly don't know something they are lying to hide the ugly truth. If they tell you that they can't get your name into a slot for a certain job, implore you to select "Open/General" as a carreer and hope for the best don't sign! Get it in writing that your name is in a slot for the job you want before you sign a commitment. Don't cry too hard if the slot closes after you sign, shit happens, but at least they should try. Unfortunately the military isn't going to have you sitting on your butt waiting for annother slot to open up so you will probably be reclassed into something that they need at the time.

Air Force or Navy

[Ratbert42]

I can't speak for how things are today, but I know several good IT/IS guys that came out of the Air Force with decent training (and in one case a Master's degree in Math that he earned while in the Air Force). Like someone else said, it's the "least demanding" of the services, if you care about that sort of thing.

If I had to pick between Navy and Air Force, I'd consider my lifestyle. In the Navy there is a decent chance you'll get assigned to a ship at some point. If you're single, that can be somewhat cool. Go see the world, one port at a time. If you've got a family, in the Air Force you're going to get to come home almost every night to your wife & kids. You might be living in base housing in a foreign country, but at least you'll see them.

If you do this, be very careful with the recruiter(s). They will verbally assure you that you'll go into the MOS you want, then you'll get assigned to some crap that isn't useful out in the civilian world. I know a power generation guy and a communications tech trying to get MCSE certifications so they can get a civilian job. Get everything in writing.

Re:Air Force or Navy

[excesspwr]

I totally agree with you.

I just got out of the military (AF) a little over a year ago. I still work as a DoD contractor at the base I was stationed at for the four years I was in.

Prior to coming in the hardest decision to make was between which branch. It narrowed down rather quickly to either Navy or AirForce. They both have decent tech jobs, but it was mostly an issue of lifestyle.

Both my mother (6 years) and father (22 years)were in the AirForce so I was leaning on going towards Navy for a change of pace. He had served as a recruiter for a couple of years so I had the added advantage of taking him with me when I met with the recruiters so I wouldn't get stuck in some non-useful AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code).

The best advice you will hear over and over again is "get everything in writing". Remember it, but also read everything before you sign it and remember everything is waiverable. Two other little pieces of advice that helped a lot.

Do not just take the word of the recruiter or any one else. Things can be changed with a waiver and you are not committed to anything until you sign, so read it. It is nearly impossible to get something changed once you sign it. After you sign up you become government property (don't get a sun burn :) so they will not be willing to change anything.

My experience was a good one. It could have been a lot better; however, it could have been a lot worse.

Voice of Experience

[sysadmn]

I graduated with a degree in Computer Engineering in the mid-80s. I faced a similar choice as yours - too burned out for grad school, civilian jobs were scarce and uncertain, and the military was desperate for engineers. I chose the Air Force, was commissioned, and served 5 years. Here are my thoughts:

1. If you want to make the military your career, you won't be a programmer for very long (if at all). What the services need are leaders; except for a lucky few (who camp in the research labs or service academies, and usually have PhDs) after your first assignment you'll be directing the work of others, rather than doing it yourself.
2. Ask what your first two or three assignments will be like. If you are interested in graduate studies, ask what the opportunities are. The Air Force runs the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) near Dayton, Oh; the Naval Postgraduate School is in Monterey, CA in Leland Stanford's old mansion. Don't know about Army and Marines opportunities.
3. If someone makes a promise, get it in writing. In the words of Yogi Berra, "A verbal contract ain't worth the paper it's written on"
4. Of all the services I talked to, only the Air Force was able to guarantee that I would be working as an engineer. The best the marines and army could offer was 'commo officer'. That means you run the radios and telephones. On the plus side, you get to do plenty of camping in fun places like Korea and Camp Lejeune. The Navy offered me an engineering officer position. That's running a powerplant, at sea, for months at a time. I grew up a Navy brat, and knew how hard that life is, and couldn't see doing it for 20 years.
5. The pay isn't as good as in the 'real' world, especially compared to high tech jobs. There are some tax breaks and perks that help offset that. It might not be as big a deal just out of college, but as time goes by it could become one. The problem is even worse for techies who are civilian employees of the military, but their job security is better.
6. Did anyone tell you that you have to put in 20 years to draw retirement pay? and that pay maxes out at 30 years at about 50%? Sounds good? Did they mention every few years you come up for promotion? and that if you don't make it twice in a row, you leave the game with nothing?
7. The military are not the only Uniformed Services. Have you considered the Public Health Service, or the National Oceanigraphic and Atmospheric Administration?
8. If you're really sharp, and can pass an extensive background check, consider a career in the intelligence agencies - NSA, NRO, CIA, etc. NSA is even running a program that pays for a graduate degree in exchange for service. On my background check, I had to list every address I had lived in the last 10 years (7 - Navy brat, duh). They even interviewed my neighbors, checked the computerized crime records, and probably ran credit checks.

Don't join for the IT

[A nonymous Coward]

Seriously, the services have nothing to offer IT-education wise. Don't join for that!

Here's my rundown of the 5 branches, and a disclaimer: I was in the Navy, 72-76, on a carrier mostly in Japan and around the far East, and had a great time.

Navy, and at sea, for an adventure none of the others can match. That old slogan really was true (It's not just a job, it's an adventure). Pick a rating which goes to sea on destroyers (radioman, quartermaster, supply, etc) and transfer after two years to a carrier. Get one Pacific ship and the other Mediterranean.

Navy, shore based. A joke. What's the point of joining a sea service and not going to sea?

Navy, if married. Forget it. Sea duty ain't for newlyweds.

Marines. If you want to join the MILITARY, this is it. Again, make sure you at least get one sea tour.

Air Force. I used to think the Air Force would be better technical education wise, but have talked to enough people who knew both and said otherwise. So I personally think the Air Force is just a ho-hum choice; nothing marks it special.

Army. Ditto; nothing to make it special.

Coast Guard. The only one which actually does anything every day other than train. If you want the satisfaction of doing something real every day, like search and rescue, this is it. A plus for many is short sea stays and stateside duty.

To sum it up, if you want to do something you will always remember and will never be able to do after you're married and settled down, join the Navy and make double damned sure you go to sea all four years. Do it for the adventure, not for what you might learn. If you think you might want to make a career of the service, join the Coast Guard. If you simply like military pomp, join the Marines. If you want to join a boring corporation, join the Air Force or Army.

You will never get another chance like those four years, so make the most of it AS AN ADVENTURE.

Think about it: the military has no use for programmers or hardware engineers. That's what industry does. The military is about bodies and weapons, not about IT. Any military job is there to support the guys in trenches.

Re:Don't join for the IT

[Mudhiker]

Well, I'm two years into the Coast Guard so I can cover that;
First, I've had almost a year of electronics training that can be transfered to college credit fairly easy. I know the Navy has longer schools (we go to some of them for some of our equipment that we get from them) but theirs are very focused. Coast Guard ETs are given a broad little-bit-of everything because that's what our support task is like. We are much thinner on resources than the other services and so we must make them stretch.
Notice that I am an Electronics Technician. I've got plenty of background in computers and I wanted to stay away from that whole psyched up shebang...though I'll be reprogramming some RADAR Eeproms via a custom serial interface when I get back from leave next week...
In any service it helps a lot to know what you want to do before you get in. Don't rely on recruiters or their aptitude tests. If possible talk to folks who've been in and are doing the job you are interested in.
The Coast Guard's IT program is a sad joke, I don't even want to go there. I pity the fools who are going to be going to the new IT school they're brewing up...(NT 4.0 basics and some exchange hacks that nobody knows how to support and you're on your way have fun. You're an "IT".)
I'll stick to my hardware thank you, as somebody's sig pointed out, if it ain't on fire, it's a software problem. But even then, almost half my job is spent with the human support side. I spend more time training folks (and fixing their mistakes) than I do ripping open racks.
Seeing as you'll have your degree, you'll be pushed into being an Officer (three times the pay for a third the work ain't bad) which is mostly paperwork and babysitting. Unless you get on one of the engineering staffs I dunno what kinda technical stuff you would be doing.
And another thing: Those of us lucky enough to be on whitehulls (Real Ships) spend at least half the year at sea. Don't listen to some sandpeep or squid who tells you otherwise.
good luck!

Re:Navy is the way to go -- NOT!

[Tassach]

Disclamer: I'm a USAF vet, but I have family members who served or are serving in every branch of the military.

The branch you select depends on what you are looking for: job training & experience that's usable in civilian life, college money, quick promotion, quality of life & working conditions, or adventure.

If you are after the adventure factor, the Marines have the market on macho bullshit pretty well wrapped up. The Marines' reputation speaks for itself. Remember that the USMC's philosophy is that a Marine is a Rifleman first, and a $WHATEVER second, and plan accordingly -- don't be suprised if you spend more time doing grunt work and PT than you spend doing your nominal job. Probably not the best choice if you value physical comfort or independent thought. From an IT perspective, the USMC is probably the worst choice you can make.

The Navy likes to bill itself as high-tech, and while they do have pretty good training for basic electronics, general IT training (that would be applicable to a civilian job) is marginal at best. Quality of life and working conditions are the worst of any of the branches, however, particuarly if you are single and enlisted. Promotions can be pretty rapid if you stay out of trouble and are reasonably smart; the people you are competing against are (ahem) generally not of the highest calibre. Based on my personal observations (I did several TDY's to Navy facilities) and the experiences of family members who served in the USN, I would have to say that you should avoid the Navy like the plague.

The Army is the biggest branch, and probably has the most choices, career wise. Living & working conditions are (on average) a bit better than the Navy, but not nearly as good as the Air Force. They can give the Marines a pretty good run for the money in the Macho Military Bullshit department when they put their minds to it, but this is minimized if you are in a non-combatant job. Army IT is generally pretty close to what you'd find in the corporate sector, except the users are dumber and will usually outrank you.

The Air Force is probably the best choice from an IT perspective. The working and living conditions are the best of any of the branches, and the Macho Military Bullshit is barely noticable once you are out of training. The downside is that it's harder to make rank than any of the other services. IMHO, the USAF is the best choice if you want to prepare yourself for an IT career in the corporate world. (It's a pretty good choice if you are planning on a military career -- they are more family-friendly than any of the other branches). My experience was exactly the opposite of the parent poster's: I too had to work on some Navy systems and I found them far worse than ours. The people I worked with were generally top-notch. (although I was in a software development shop, not lan & desktop support)

Definately heed the advice in the parent post: DO NOT TRUST RECRUITERS. They have a quota to fill, and they could care less what happens to you once you sign up. Enlisting with "Open/General" as your job choice is like putting a "kick me" sign on your back. However, at least in the Air Force, if you have good ASVAB and EDPT scores you have a very good chance of getting an IT job. The EDPT -- electronic data processing test -- is (or at least was in '89) the test you must take to qualify for any computer-related job. The higher your score on that test, the more likely it is you'll get an IT job -- they have a very hard time finding enough people who can pass the test to fill all the available slots. The EDPE doesn't test any technical computer knowledge -- it's actually an IQ test (identifying patterns, sequences, etc). To prepare, do tests like the Mensa Workout.