Slashdot Mirror
China Shuts Down 17,000 Internet Bars
Astin writes: "According to this article, Chinese authorities have shut down more than 17,000 Internet bars for failing to block Web sites considered subversive or pornographic. Out of the 94,000 Internet bars in China, 17,488 have been shut down and another 28,000 were ordered to install monitoring software soon. Of the 27 million Internet users in China, about 4.5 million rely on these bars. Foreign news organizations fall under the category of 'subversive'."
China is about as marxist as my left nipple. Its politico-economic situation is a weird, bastard stepchild between military-owned capitalism, nationalism, communism and nepotism. Marxism it is not.
From the article:
"Some youths will submerge themselves in Internet bars for long periods, playing unhealthy games and adversely affecting their development as normal students."
If porn and video games do not make for normal students, I dare say that there has never been a normal male child, ever. Sex and games occupied most of my time while I was a student.
And I'm plenty normal. Just ask my psychiatrist.
Talisman
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
If this happened in America all hell would break loose, but in China, most people probably don't care, if they even notice. Only 27 million of their 1.3 billion citizens access the internet. Thats about 2 percent. Of those 2 percent, only 4.5 million rely on the internet bars. So even if all of them were effected by the lose of these bars(which not all are) only .3 percent of the population that was effected. Unfortunately not enough to throw a coup or have a very effect revolt against an armed government willing to use force.
I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Now that the U.S. is "at war" i wouldn't be surprised to see more censorship popping up left and right. Now admittedly, we do have a long way to go before it gets that bad, but i doubt many americans could be bothered to kill (and conversely to die) for their freedom of speech and freedom of asociation, hell many can't even be bothered vote for those freedoms, some can't even be bothered to vote at all.
During World War II we locked people up for their ethnic background, and during the cold war we persecuted people based for allegedly belonging to subversive political organizations that supported things such as a living wage and racial equality.
What i'm saying is that we shouldn't be so smug, this sort of thing isn't as far fetched as one might think.
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
Because the people in China need to feed their families and earn an honest living. Because if the USA were to "(fight) the good fight" due to some moral docterine our economy would collapse almost instantly as we alienate Singapore, China, Vietnam, and every other "freedom hating" regime on the planet. Because, when it comes down to it, we have to make the best that we can and help the most people possible.
Burn Hollywood Burn
"Fighting the good fight" against communism ended when Nixon went to China and began a policy of detente, as well he should have. China is indeed guilty of some horrible human rights violations, as are most countries, but I don't think another protracted cold war will solve much of anything. What I think Bush, or at least his advisors, correctly realize is that a country that is open to two-way trade is a country that is open to the most powerful weapons of democracy: interaction. I would bet that putting a McDonalds in Moscow has done more Russia-US relations than any number of summit meetings.
I find it somewhat odd that you speak of rabid Christian morality and ideology and then complain that the US policy towards China isn't sufficiently idealistic or moral in it its dealings with China. Which way did you want it?
RC
No, it's the Chinese government's way of life. The people don't exactly have a choice.
The people may not have a choice, but be careful when you say that the Chinese people don't support what the government is doing. There are a billion Chinese people. Telling a Chinese girl that she's "one in a million" is like telling her that there are 1,000 girls that look just like her.
When half a million students go downtown and shout angry slogans and act up, that's one half of one percent of one percent of their population. That's an insignifigant little piece of dirt. And believe it or not, a good majority of that billion people, the truly "Silent Majority" in China, watched those kids get run over by tanks with the same satisfaction we reserve for watching the Klu Klux Klan get pegged with glass bottles on T.V.
China is extremely conservative. That's what happens when your survive the Chinese Cultural Revolution, when young people rose up, took control, killed all the skilled doctors, lawyers and artisans, and ran loose across the countryside committing mass murder. The Chinese people on the whole have had enough radical change for two lifetimes. They are a product of their history, just like us.
A lot of Chinese Americans I know roll their eyes when they hear about the "Concert(s) for Tibetan Freedom". Held in stadiums on the very land from which we marched millions of Native Americans across the Trail of Tears to their death, it seems to them to be at best hypocritical and at worst pure vanity on our part to assume that the Chinese government is so very different from our own.
Be careful throwing stones on behalf of the Chinese. They are a proud and strong culture, they outnumber us, they have seen wars so terrible that our country can only imagine. They have had tiny revolutions that lasted longer than our entire country has been in existence.
I'm not approving the action; I'm saying you should weigh your opinion and your ignorance together carefully first.
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
From this story:
"Out of the 94,000 Internet bars in China, 17,488 have been shut down and another 28,000 were ordered to install monitoring software soon. Of the 27 million Internet users in China, about 4.5 million rely on these bars."
From a previous Slashdot story:
"Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a longtime proponent of censorware, introduced the amendment...Essentially it says that any school or library which receives federal funds to build its network must install censorware. Since these funds are the chief way that poor and middle-income areas bring the internet into public institutions, effectively this means that only rich counties will have the option of an uncensored internet."
I'm so glad that I don't live in China, where the government attempts to censor public internet access.
I agree that it should concern every US citizen when the government plans to impinge on the rights of any US citizen, but my concerns can be allayed at times. Is a little more border control warranted? I think yes. Should student visa holders receive greater scrutiny than at present (currently zero)? Again, I'm okay with that. What China does is attempt to completely silence all contrary viewpoints, especially the free press. I'm much more concrened about that, than anything Ashcroft has dreamt up lately.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
I'm an American, and you know, I never fail to be fascinated/frustrated at how vigorously other Americans attack China. Who said that our system is the best? And who are you to criticize another country for providing for its people in the best way they deem possible? It's not like the leaders are in it for the fun of it -- good god, they have to serve 1.2 billion people! Let me see you manage a country that large, by giving people all the same freedoms we enjoy here. We have enough trouble already, with only 1/5 the population... If you think about it, it's like people here have been programmed to hate China just because it's one of the few remaining "Communist" countries around. Do we really need another enemy? Why create one when China doesn't want to be an enemy? Never mind that their increasingly capitalist structure has given far more people over there opportunities than can be said about some of our population here. When you criticize China, are you doing so because you've really thought about the issues, or because that's all the media has told you to do here? Sometimes the freedom of thought is more quashed here than in less-priviliged, knowledge-embracing countries...
It's already here. Perhaps the largest of underreported [censored?] stories of the last decade is the growth of the corporate prison industry in America. The owners of these chains have donated heavily to "tough-on-crime" Republican candidates and in return have been given a limitless--and growing--supply of "criminals", usually people convicted of growing/manufacturing/distributing non-alcoholic drugs.
Here is how it works: the prisoner performs labor for Microsoft/WalMart/etc... for a low wage, around $1.00/hour. Part of this wage goes to pay the cost of imprisonment. If the prisoner committed a true crime, a portion of the wage goes towards a restitution fund. The remainder can be spent by the prisoner on overpriced soap/toothpaste/deodorant/etc... It's a win-win situation for the owner: the prisoner pays to be a prisoner, and the owner profits from the prisoner's labor.
The result?
Wait 'til they have finished milking the War on (Some) Drugs and start milking the War on Illegal (Open Source) Software.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
...but these people chose this form of government...
No, it is a clear case of a minority dictating to the majority. The nationalists just got their asses kicked. That's all.
Most in China will secretly tell you that their government sucks, but they are too afraid to do anything about it.
Don't be fooled by the same logic that you believe the parent poster is fooled by. True, many good things have come from our Capitalist society. However, your understanding of the system is not based on any facts. With the exception of Gates, Bezos, Perot, and a handful of others, people who "work hard, take risks, and take responsibility usually" don't make it to the top. These people are called employees. Most heads of corporation reek of old money. Their friends and families sit in Government and on the boards of PACs. Now that our government is bailing out the airline industry for its lousy (and deadly) business practices, the notion that corporate owners take risks is obsolete. The exception is small businesses.
Statements like "hippy commune" show your inability to construct a factual argument. What good does "finding another job" do when the game is already rigged by the winners?
There are an infinite number of economic systems waiting to be explored.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
And they have the right to be OK with that.
Most in China will secretly tell you that their government sucks, but they are too afraid to do anything about it.
Also their choice. It isn't up to you or me or the UN to force a revolution against a government _we_ don't like. We can use political pressure and such to _urge_ them in a particular direction, but except for violations of "internationl law" and certain humanitarian issues we have no right to tell them how to run their country.
There is no inalienable right to live in a democracy.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Hear hear! You have espoused an idea that I thought was long past anyone grasping: power is not taken from the people, it is given by the people to the government.
Even the most totalitarian regime in history was outnumbered by the citizens of said regime. If a revolt happened on a national scale, any government could be toppled, even the U.S. All that's needed is citizens with courage -- Ghandi proved that to the mightiest empire in modern times (Britain), and he never fired a shot. It is not easy, it is hard. People die. But what is better? Living in oppression or fighting and perhaps dying for freedom? I would rather fight and take my chances than huddle at the government's whim. It's a pity that more people don't realize where power comes from, but then again they are educated from day one by government institutions that "the system" is unfightable.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
I don't seriously think most people are complaining that the USA is a *bad* place to live, merely that it is not necessarily on a path to being better.
Just because you're an american doesn't mean you can't complain about freedoms and privacy being taken from you. On the contrary, I think it's your duty to stand up for your rights.
Nations must balance the rights of the people vs. the need to prevent bad people from causing mayhem. The fact that many people believe the government is neglecting the rights of the people in an (arguably misguided an ineffectual) effort to prevent crime is probably an indication that the scales have tipped too far in one direction.
America is a fine nation. I can't honestly rate it vs. other nations having lived here most of my life (the remainder being spent in Canada, which is almost identical). I believe that it is quite possibly one of the best places to live, but that does not prevent me from finding the actions of some of our "leadership" somewhat less than optimal.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
(5) Making falsehoods ...
... or distorting the truth to slander people
(7)
8) Injuring the reputation of state organs;
In other words, TELLING THE TRUTH is also illegal when it injures the reputation of gov't agencies. For instance, mentioning that the reason the elementary school exploded was that they had the kiddies making fireworks to be sold at a profit (true story, AFAIK)...