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Ask Ed Felten About Watermarking Analysis And More
Dr. Edward Felten is in a funny position -- or perhaps not so funny. He's the Princeton researcher who took up the challenge posed by the music industry to find flaws in the SMDI watermarking scheme, but didn't enter into the 'no-telling' bargain (here's the click-through agreement [pdf]) which would have made him eligible for a reward, so wasn't bound by non-disclosure terms. When a scheduled academic presentation on the weaknesses [pdf] that he and his colleages found in SDMI became the object of lawsuit threats from the RIAA, and caused him to cancel the planned presentation, Felten decided to turn the tables, and in cooperation with the EFF, sue them instead, for interfering with his scholarly research. Though he did eventually get to present his research, the legal action is still going. Dr. Felten is at a hearing today in Trenton, NJ, but he's agreed to answer questions from Slashdot readers. Please confine your questions carefully (one per post), and we'll pass the highest-moderated ones on for his answers.
What is the best case outcome for the lawsuit that you and the EFF have started. Is it possible that the DMCA (or parts of it) can be found unconstitutional? Or would a "best case" just be a weaking of the DMCA, where for certain purposes people would be allowed to discuss their findings regardless of the DMCA.
Also, how likely (in the opinion of you or your lawyers) are the different possible outcomes of this case?
If you were in the position where you were trying to get a handle on rampant piracy of your work, what (digital) means would you pursue to secure your work?
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
Do you feel that research, your specific research and/or research in general, should be presented in an 'open' forum, if said research is paid for, in part or in whole, with tax-supplied funds?
This gets down to a licensing issue, on the public being charged twice for the research and it's benefits.
Eric Gearman
--
Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
Hi Prof Felten,
As an academic myself, I am gratified by your colleagues and your decision to publish your findings instead of claiming the $10000 prize (personally, I find the $10000 "prize" for the HackSDMI challenge measly, and even bordering on insulting.).
The fact that you are suing the RIAA for intefering into your academic activities indicates your stance on the issue of academic freedom to research. However, the RIAA has deep-pockets, and the fight has just begun. It is not inconceivable that in the future, the academia may come under the control of rich corporations manipulating research for their own selfish ends.
So, my question is, do you see a bright future for a "free academia" or do you see a academia that willi increasingly be locked down by corporate interests and their lawyers/lobbyists?
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Dr. Felten, thanks for your time to answer our questions. We do appreciate it. :-)
First, when you started your research, did you ever expect that you would be at the forefront of a legal battle to keep academic speech free and protected? Do you ever have any misgivings about taking a high profile in this matter? I know there are some researchers (some of my colleauges included) who shy away from anything legal and would rather just do work that might not be as controversial. It's good to see you getting involved and make sure that our rights as academics are preserved.
Secondly, what has it been like working with the EFF? I have a great deal of respect for them and have been a member for a couple of years now. I am just curious as to the 'behind-the-scenes' process that you and the EFF lawyers have been persuing as this case pans out.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Why'd you do it? I understand why it had to be done - the onerous law can only be harmful - but what made you decide you, personally, should get involved like this to change it? I've kept and eye on the case and you've been very smart about how you're doing everything, so don't try to sneak off with a "it just happened this way."
Thank you
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
I am not talking about breaking the watermark itself, but the planned presentation and then you not presenting because of the RIAA threat?
Fight Spammers!
There are people in the world who can easily pick the kind of lock that most of us have on our front door. Nonetheless, it is illegal to pick the lock in order to gain entry. However it is not illegal to write lock picking instructions, or to present a paper on lock picking.
(now to my question)
It seems that if laws against breaking and entering were not enforced, people (particularly those who wanted to protect themselves and their valuables) would be a lot more concerned about lock-picking. What do you think can (or should?) be done to enforce our existing copyright laws so that measures such as the one you are fighting will eventually be unnecessary?
Amazing magic tricks
From a scientific point of view, is there any evidence that technologies could be invented which enable producers of digital content to control how this digital content is used, and by whom? Should there be a difference between theory and real life, I'd be interested in an answer under real-world assumptions, that is, there is an Internet and people connect to it using devices fully under their own control.
http://erichsieht.wordpress.com/category/english/
I am currently a student and my friends and I all have an interest in "hacking", both hardware and software. Many of the laws that have bound you in the United States will also bind us here in Japan due to the multinational nature of many corporations and agreements on Intellectual Property.
Do you have advice for the curious student, perhaps someone interested in research or experiments similar to yours, but without any resources to assist him in a court of law? I have had a friend who received threats of a legal nature from a large company and he chose not to continue his research since he did not have the resources for a lengthy legal battle.
To conclude my question, what would you recommend to the student who wishes to do as you have done, but does not have similar resources?
Thank you.
R. Suzuka
Dr Felton,
Any security protection will deter 80-90%of the people. Of the remaining people, 1-2% will not be deterred by anything and the rest will take advantage of the work of the 1-2%. Copy protection doesn't work in the digital world as well as it works in the analog world. It would seem that perhaps the laws governing the digitial world ought to be different from the analog world, perhaps even different for different types of digital "ideas".
What is your opinion of the best way to implement copyright, patent, or other Intellectual Property protection for authors while protecting fair use rights of consumers?
What do you think the realistic impact on illegal music trading would be if the technology you tested was implemented on a widescale basis now that your research is in the public domain?
First, congratulations on a nice piece of work!
The RIAA seems clearly out-of-line in their legal attempt to stop the publication of your work. Hopefully your legal case against them will set usable boundaries for Intellectual Property disputes in future.
My question is: How did the RIAA get themselves in this situation? It appears really stupid for an organization of their stature. Didn't they know where to find a good mathematician when they developed SDMI? With all due respect, surely you weren't the only guy out there who could solve this problem. Then to lay it out on the table and bet the world, it couldn't be read. It just all seems like a comedy of bad management.
How did it happen???
Given that you've been so prominent in demonstrating the weakness of watermarking techniques thus far, how do you like his company's chances of succeeding, and has your academic interest in defeating watermarking schemes resulted in some interesting debates in the lunchroom?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)