Sharp Ships New PDA Running Linux 2.4

cbowland writes: "Sharp is now shipping the SL-5000D Zaurus PDA with a Linux 2.4 kernel, embedded PalmTop, Personal Java, and QT. Priced at $399 for developers only. Their plan is to get some apps created before marketing it to the public. Check it out" I wonder if the USB port on the docking station would let these work with the Happy Hacker keyboard ...

Comments

slider

[BigBir3d]

Nokia had a cell phone (8890?) on the market with a sliding front face. It didn't last very long before breaking. Nokia no longer makes/sells that phone. It left the market in about a year.

Hopefully this device has a better mechanism than that.

Re:slider

[OblongPlatypus]

The 8890 is only one of several Nokia phones with this kind of sliding mechanism. Another is 7110, which is still very much on the market. I'm not saying it's a good solution (it's not, mine broke pretty fast), but apparently it sells anyway. And Nokia haven't given up on sliding mechanisms; witness the recently announced 7650.

These Things are sweet!

[Firetree]

I saw one at Comdex, and it is one sweet little device. The screen is bright and clear, it doesnt weigh much and it's as fast as any handheld out there. Even the java runs fast on it =P

Only problem, I couldnt get much outta the people running the booth, they seemed pretty clueless...oh well.

Guess Ill hafta wait till they come out on the market *sigh*

Oh btw, the sliding keyboard mechanism on it is relatively well implemented, but it doesnt work well when its on the cradle (only a minor complaint) I do so want one of these things =J

-----------
Fire's Out ~~X

Re:"developers only"...

[anpe]

Are my autoexec.bat editing skillz enough to buy this thing ?

Re:2.4

[gregfortune]

Two things instantly come to mind...

1) The newest VM is probably the way to go for an embedded user responsive system. Comparisons posted here on slashdot show the newest 2.4 VM to whip the 2.2 VM
2) Not totally sure about this, but wouldn't the 2.4 kernel do a better job os supporting USB devices?

There's probably more too... As long as the OS is flashable (I'd be astonished if the developer editions had the OS ROM burned in...), then 2.4 is most likely a really good decision...

Greg

Feedback from prospective developer

[Anonymous Coward]

I ordered one of these a month ago. Here are a few links that you might be interested in:

Zdnet Commentary:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,28 26 164,00.html

Developer's Review on LinuxDevices:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5326761307.ht ml

Developer's FAQ:
http://tank.dyndns.org/index.php?op=showfaq&id=4

From the developer forums, the general impression is that this is on a tiny budget, but the people that are involved a very dedicated (Hi, Mitchy!). I would post the link to the developer forums but the server would crash. From the forums, the top issues are:

1) Upgrade memory to 64MB (from 32). I am in favor of this, though other developers make the point that Linux should not need as much memory as PocketPC, also this increases the cost. I would add more ROM (up to 32MB), or at least offer a high-end model with more memory.

2) No speaker like PocketPC (just a buzzer). You have to listen to MP3's with headphone jack. I don't think this is important, but others want a IPAQ like speaker. There's also no Sound DSP.

3) Dependence on embedded QT license. There is some concern about paying QT for your applications, but on the Sharp forums Sharp says that they are working with QT for low-cost commercial QT licensing.

4) SD (Secure Digital) support, Bluetooth support.
I think these are both really needed to make this successful.

One other issue is that I would like to the Sharp license the interface from the IPAQ or HandSpring (Springboard), so the Zaurus can leverage the external devices for those devices.

Any opionions from any other developers?

Re:Feedback from prospective developer

[vscjoe]

3) Dependence on embedded QT license. There is some concern about paying QT for your applications, but on the Sharp forums Sharp says that they are working with QT for low-cost commercial QT licensing.

The concern isn't (just) with the license, it is with the lack of compatibility and interoperability. If you run Qt/Embedded, you can't share the screen with applications written in other toolkits or in raw X11.

Does that matter? I think it does. It places the Sharp outside the family of other Linux-based PDAs and embedded systems, meaning that code for other PDAs can't easily be ported to the Sharp. It also means that workstation applications are much harder to port--even if you change the UI to accomodate a smaller screen, much of the display logic can be shared between desktop and handheld applications.

A cheap Qt/Embedded developer's license just won't help. Sharp needs to provide X11. They can still run their applications using Qt/X11 on it.

Re:Feedback from prospective developer

[infiniti99]

It places the Sharp outside the family of other Linux-based PDAs and embedded systems, meaning that code for other PDAs can't easily be ported to the Sharp.

What other PDAs? Really, Linux handhelds are mostly vaporware. There are not tons and tons of small-screen Linux apps to be ported to the Sharp. One of the biggest problems normal users have with X11 are all the differing toolkits. If Sharp wants to target normal users then it is going to need a consistent interface. This is an excellent time to establish a precedent for Linux PDA applications.

Re:Feedback from prospective developer

[mj6798]

Not to mention that X is a hog, both in bandwidth and in memory and disk space requirements.

A 200MHz iPaq or Sharp has about 10x the speed and memory of desktop workstations on which X11 was used traditionally. X11's performance, disk space requirements, and memory requirements are as good as most "embedded" toolkits. The reason why X11 uses a lot of memory on your Linux box is because it can and because it is deliberately configured that way, not because there is anything intrinsic about X11 that requires a lot of resources.

And don't tell me about "low bandwidth X" and Tiny X - they all serve to illustrate that X is fundamentally broken, and certainly isn't for handhelds.

The X11 protocol was designed for Ethernet and works very efficiently on Ethernet, better than any of the alternatives. LBX was designed to adapt X11 for low bandwidth, high latency connections and works as well as anything over those. I don't know what TinyX is supposed to be for, but you don't need it for a 200MHz handheld. you don't even need it for a 66MHz handheld with 8M of RAM.

The people who are screaming for X on a handheld need to come out and live in the Real World.

I think the people who keep badmouthing X11 should get a clue.

Re:Feedback from prospective developer

[mj6798]

Really, Linux handhelds are mostly vaporware.

iPaqs have been running Linux for several years and are quite popular.

There are not tons and tons of small-screen Linux apps to be ported to the Sharp.

There are tons of X11 apps with X11 display logic that can be usefully ported to X11 handhelds with only small modifications to the UI.

One of the biggest problems normal users have with X11 are all the differing toolkits.

I have never seen any evidence for that, and repeating that claim endlessly doesn't make it true. In fact, I suspect most people couldn't tell a well-written Qt application from a well-written Gtk+ application. Furthermore, even on Windows or MacOS, developers use many different toolkits, yet users don't seem to notice.

Some more pictures

[jacoplane]

There was a preview of this PDA a while back on Infosync. There was also a /. story associated with those pics.

Did not take time to read the EULA...

[mirko]

Short question :
Can a Registered Developper Port something else than Linux to it ?

The PDA actually looks sexy on the hardware side, not on the software side (A friend of mine bought a Linux-iPaq from Lisa and it appears to be quite slow, lacks responsiveness and also burns its batteries in about one hour).

I think some special projects like RiscOS would be more adequate.

Agenda

[adebater]

For only $99 at Fry's you can pick up an Agenda (now defunct) that runs linux (2.4 I believe). There is active developing going on, and you can't beat the price!! It'll save ya about $300!

Try these sites for info:

Agenda Software Repository:
http://supermegamulti.com/agenda/

Agenda Unofficial FAQ:
http://www.lardcave.net/agenda/agenda-faq.html

Re:"developers only"...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Developers only" means it's not a finished polished product yet.

I'm in the UK and have had mine for several weeks (though i'm only a hobbyist developer)

Things are not quite there yet on the application and driver support, things like the IrDA stack being incomplete, but in general it works. Support for wireless lan cards is good, support for usb syncing with a linux desktop isnt at the moment

A lot of effort is needed to be put in developing the apps more to integrate better with each other and provide the typical PDA functionality.

Also the developers version only has 32M ram, while the consumer version is romoured to have 64M.

Basicly they will sell one to anyone, you don't have to be from a software company or have a known track record, but it won't be much good to anyone that isn't happy pissing about a bit to make it do what they want.

Checkout http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/index.asp for the sharp built developers community. Sharp employees are present on the board, and are willing to help out. Full doccumentation is creeping out slowly, and they plan to release source and full build instructions for the kernel they are using.

It's an excelant little toy, and something i'd reccomend to anyone that is used to compiling apps on linux :)

Linux + Java - gotta be a winning combination!

[philipx]

Besides the fact that the US web site http://www.sharp-usa.com when viewed with K-Meleon displayed a page indicating to upgrade to Internet Explorer 4 or Netscape 4, I was quite unable to find a lot of info.
A few web searches took me through the UK web site (they have a pdf spec sheet) to the developer's web site (why didn't I think of it in the first place ?!).

Both the Linux spec and Java are interesting. It runs PersonalJava 1.2 with the Truffle AWT L&F. On the Linux part, it implements Embedix - the 2.4 kernel. I find very interesting it supports BusyBox + some additional commands.

"It provides minimal replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in fileutils, shellutils, findutils, textutils, grep, gzip, tar, etc. In addition, by using the network or a Compact Flash card, useful Linux tools can be used."

Also, I find very comforting that on the interface part we got Qt/Embedded which is quite cool.

To sum it up... I'm a developer looking for a PDA. $400 is pricey, but the Zaurus is not a gadget it's a real tool. I hope I'll find the funds to get one for Xmas :)

philipx

Re:Very nice looking

[Albanach]

It's a developer edition - perhaps they want folk to develop apps that run comfortably in 32MB, then when they release a production version with 64MB or even 128MB multiple tasks from multiple developers should be able to run side by side without memory problems. Just my 2p worth.

Its to Big and Bulky

[quakeaddict]

Its to Big and Bulky

I mean if you whipped that out in a crowd they migh shoot you thinking you were going to launch the missiles.

I've got 802.11b with the Zaurus

[oob]

Getting a Z-Com 802.11b CF card working with my Zaurus was thde first thing I did. You can find my HOWTO on the dev2dev forum at http://developer.sharpsec.com (free reg req.) I am using the unit day in and day out as my PDA (web, contacts, email, addressbook, whatever) as well as using the underlying *nix functionality for stuff like systems and network support when I am moving around the office or, in fact, sitting at the pub around the corner having a pint. This device is out-of-this-world-cool and I suggest that every Network/Sys Admin should put it on their Christmas gift list. Having used it for a couple of weeks and watched the incredible pace at which software is ported to it I have to say that it is everything that I need as an IT professional in a PDA right now and it is only going to get better. I seriously doubt that PDA's running anything but Linux will have any market share in twelve months,there is simply no way Palm or embedded Windows can keep up with this thing. End users will appreciate the stability, speed and vast amount of software, while the I.T. people will appreciate the awesome flexibility and functionality. walking around right now with a linux PDA that is a significantly higher spec than my first Linux desktop is a thrill and having it connected most of the time to the 'net at 11mb/s is the icing on the cake.

Yopy, Agenda, and others...

[Svartalf]

The Yopy is due out soon (Realize that the Sharp PDA available now isn't much different than the developer release of the Yopy- it's still not a "real" PDA in the same sense as the Agenda...) and the Agenda is already out.

You're supposed to use Fltk to develop apps for either of those, even though they use completely differing GUI engines (Yopy- W, Agenda- MicroWindows)- which means that one app written for the Yopy is liable to work decently enough without major changes on the Agenda (memory permitting...) or an iPaq running Familiar, Similar, Pixil, or some other MicroWindows or X based PDA distribution. The same cannot be said for a Qt/E based PDA. You have either the Sharp PDA or an iPaq in which someone has installed Qt/E on it.

Linux PDAs aren't vapor like you contend- just not pervasive like Windows CE devices or Palm devices.