Bruce Sterling on Geeks and Spooks

apsmith writes: "Bruce Sterling's latest Viridian piece is a written version of a talk on why we're in such a mess with crypto, why the computer industry is going nowhere for the next few years, and what Lawrence Lessig, the NSA, Echelon, Oliver North and Abdullah Catli have in common. Thought-provoking stuff, even if you might not agree with quite everything ("Why don't you geeks just sit down with your cheap, crappy plastic boxes, and shut up? Here in the TV biz, our boxes look nicer anyway!")." This is a lunch-time talk, and it's meant to be entertaining, and it is. :)

Comments

Is this a....

[Anonymous Coward]

frist prost?

Re:Is this a....

[Anonymous Coward]

crap

yes, yes it is

[Anonymous Coward]

This, on the other hand, is a first follow-up. It makes my balls hurt just thinkg about it.

Lan Chiao!

Flame???

[Anonymous Coward]

I request a FLAME in your name.

FSTFUKP!

[Anonymous Coward]

STFU Katz!


Oh, wait, we like Bruce, don't we?

SKJD &^#$&^%#(*&$

[Anonymous Coward]

FDSFPOSIDOISNDIOU(*WE&&W^FDGUVBJWEM)*(@U)N*FD(UIM( )*E&&#(*#^&*^&%83687436boihlfdhj9*&*&^)uHDIUfhnhof (Y@EP:OSIJKDSOIDFNY(F)WY)N*(YSNFPF:JE)R(E&BRPDS*FF BYUDFIP*YBSDO&*S^YB(*&TSFOSFIUNPS(*FUNS()F*YSFPSFD SSDDDS&U^^&*^$DSHGDSD*&SJKH(*&SDDSHOISUD(SD*B^WEOI FUNFDSS(*SSSDD

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

This talk makes no sense. Crypto mess? As an everyday user of 168-bit 3DES (IPSec) for remote access, I don't see where the problem is.

Computer Industry

[Renraku]

You know why its not really going anywhere? Because there isn't that much innovation anymore. I mean, you have two options for software. Make it yourself, or get someone elses'. If you can dream it up, its probably been done (within reason). So, basically, the need for the software has to overcome the energy consumed in making the software in order for anything to be done. And the energy to acquire the software is becoming less and less as more and more software is produced. Hardware is the same way, only more closed. Not many people have their own chip fabs that could anywhere near compete with the major players in the chip industry.

Re:Computer Industry

[Anonymous Coward]

true. that and the fact that the software development process sucks. and so do the languages and tools.

Re:Computer Industry

[Lumpish Scholar]

You know why its not really going anywhere? Because there isn't that much innovation anymore.

There's a lot of reasons for that, but Mr. Sterling named one:

The big time in modern outlaw geekdom is definitely Microsoft. The Justice Department can round up all the Al Qaeda guys they can wiretap, but when they went to round up Redmond, they went home limping and sobbing, and without a job. That is a geek fait accompli, it's a true geek lock-in. In 2001, Microsoft has got its semi-legal code in every box that matters....

So: we don't have any crypto anarchy in computers in 2001. What we have is a feudal empire. Innovation is not bursting out of pirate utopias run by the mentally liberated. No, innovation has slowed to a crawl; no, it's actually crawling in full reverse. You can buy a top-end Wintel machine now: say [sic.] 512 meg of ram, 400 megaherz == with every rational expectation that machine will last you ten solid years. Maybe longer. Good luck finding any broadband for it, but as far as the machine itself goes, it'll sit on a shelf like a lump of putty, running Windows. Moore's Law, to hell with that. There's nothing new and fancy for a bigger chip to run. Nobody's thought that up. It's even worse than Detroit before the Japanese. It's all chrome tail-fins and creeping featuritis: it's unsafe at any speed.

(Except he describes Lawrence Lessig as "an American Justice Department lawyer who had his head handed to him in court by Microsoft," which is pretty confused on a few levels.)

Re:Computer Industry

[Anonymous Coward]

Have we forgotten GNUTella, Freenet? Have we forgotten Subseven, Back Orifice and Netbus, the trojans/viruses that truly illustrate the need of human beings to control and spy on one another? Have we forgotten emulators like MAME, which despite the odds against doing so emulate -thousands- of machines long departed from assembly lines, most of which are proprietary? There are plenty of dreams left for the software industry as is -- but we're close to approaching a point where, like many other sciences, the law prevents us from making the natural progressions that we should (stem cell research, the failure of the government to destroy Microsoft's monopoly, the DMCA..the list goes on).

Re:Computer Industry

[JohnGalt3]

It seems like you are trying to grasp at any argument of Mr. Sterling's that sounds like something Anti-Microsoft or pro Open Source. He doesn't say anything about Microsoft's lack of innovation. He preceeded what you quoted with "So where are these imaginary earthshaking geek outlaws who laugh in derision at mere government?" So what did Mr. Sterling name? If there's no innovation it is because either there is no need for it, or because there is some lack of a free economy. If there isn't any demand for something, then by what standards is it innovative? And for what purpose is it? And if there is some lack of a free economy, which is the other choice, then you are complaining about an effect, without examining any cause.

Re:Computer Industry

[ttyRazor]

I'd argue that it's not that there is any less innovation, it's just that thanks to the Internet, all the early adopters get the innovative new technology in some barely usable beta state, impressive but not exciting to the point where its called "innovative", and by the time its refined to a solid and usable point, we take it for granted. Also, alot (but not all) of the "innovative" stuff in the past was doing the simple and obvious stuff in a way that was far from simple and obvious becase to get it to run on the hardware of the day would mean all sorts of fancy optimizations. Take for example innovations like streaming video. Everyone went through all sorts of effort to make ultra-efficient compression codecs and stuff, but once broadband gets to a point where its as fast as your average LAN, it will become merely the transmission of a video stream over a network in a way that seems no different than playing it locally, and won't seem like anything innovative at all

Re:Computer Industry

[katana]

Unfortunately, innovation in Open Source software, that is to say non-market-driven software, seems to follow the following formula:

1) Get an idea
2) Write an 0.1 version
3) Archive at SourceForge
4) Repeat

Rigor is a function of one of two conditions: economics or obsession. Innovation based on economics/market is the Microsoft approach, which is why they're the 800-pound gorilla.

Re:Computer Industry

[Error27]

>>If you can dream it up, its probably been done (within reason).

I think that's far too optomistic view of where we are.

Right now, I would say that we are the caveman stage of using computers.

There's tons of stuff that I've thought of that I'll never have time to write... Right now I'm working on some software that I think is fairly unique and inovative. I'll tell you in a month what it is maybe... ;) I've never heard anyone doing it anyways. And I'm just an undergrad.

If you look at things like napster. Everyone thought about writing it but only one person actually did.

Re:Computer Industry

[Anonymous Coward]

*Your* software development process sucks. *Your* languages and tools suck. What does process have to do with innovation anyway?

Re:Computer Industry

[JohnGalt3]

If the market isn't driving innovation, then what is the purpose of Open Source? If not for the market (willing consumers), then for who? The 800-pound gorilla is a movement that has no purpose.

Re:Computer Industry

[snarfer]

The whole thing was ABOUT how Microsoft has stifled innovation in the computer industry, bonehead.

Re:Computer Industry

[ichimunki]

No. The reason MS is the 800 pound gorilla is that any time they see someone else's innovation they work it into their operating system, buy the company outright, or code a workalike and release it for free. And I think what you see on SourceForge is a very public process, beginning with the idea phase, early development and planning, up to the few mature beta projects and then no insignificant number of release quality packages. I bet if you had similar full access to all the developer machines at Microsoft you'd find a similar number of ideas that never gained traction, a lot of early code that got chucked after the skeleton was written, enough parallel development of certain things to make you wonder who's in charge and if they are awake, and plenty of beta stuff that never makes it to release, and a handful of release quality stuff.

Note on the word release: *any* release is really just a beta until users get a chance to test it, only with Microsoft they can't call their first release beta because then no one would pay for it, the updates in the form of service packs are usually no charge-- free software can call stuff beta forever if they want, giving a package a release number is good for the public process of knowing when to feature freeze and do more rigorous testing for a while, but not much else.

Personally I think Sterling is flat out wrong. He does give some okay insights into why geeks might be a little wary of the government (after all the spooks are scary to just about anyone, and the spooks are actually interested in the geeks), but as to his assertion that there is no innovation going on... I think that's just plain nonsense.

Of course, when computing finally reached the level where you could put a really powerful machine on someone's lap there was a rush to fill in all the blanks, software-wise. But there's still plenty to be done, and people are working on it. Natural language parsing, non-mouse/non-keyboard interfaces, wearables, portables, AI, agent software, there may be lots of great clients out there (like Excel or Powerpoint), but just wait until there is an Excel server and two people can really easily start to work on the same spreadsheet simultaneously... I could go on and on with the things that are likely happening or have happened that we aren't really aware of yet...

His quick dismissal of Moore's law is based on small computers, look at the things big computers are doing that before were essentially impossible! Even if the underlying software or programming paradigms are the same, the real world application of the tools is drastically improving.

Finally, just because the last fifty years have seen this rate of growth in computing that's astronomical, we cannot and should not expect it to always feel like that: it's not even safe. When you get on the freeway you accelerate from zero to 60 rather quickly, but once you're on the road, just because you've stopped accelerating doesn't mean you're slowing down. Tech is perhaps done accelerating, but even at cruising speed we're still going places.

Re:Computer Industry

[JohnGalt3]

There wasn't a single argument in the paper that described how Microsoft stifles innovation in the computer industry.

bin laden

[Anonymous Coward]

i support what bin laden did. jew york had it coming to it anyways. we need some more terrorists to come up here and clean up all the jews and niggers that have taken over this once great nation.

Sexy, cool geeks?

[ryanwright]

we geeks have all the cash and all the culture cred, and we're rich and sexy and cool

Is this guy in denial, or what?! Sounds like the wet dreams of (insert favorite tech company CEO/Microsoft poster boy here): "I'm rich.... and SEXY.. and COOL... and I'm an 3l3t3 ha(k0r to boot!"

A good read, though. Nice afternoon entertainment..

Re:Sexy, cool geeks?

[Anonymous Coward]

that is |-|4XX0|2 you fucking hardon

Re:Sexy, cool geeks?

[snol]

I got the distinct impression he was telling the back story during that paragraph; that's not about today, that's about a few years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:Sexy, cool geeks?

[mmol_6453]

You're not wrong, but it made for a good "+2 Funny" comment, so it was acceptable.

Re:Sexy, cool geeks?

[poopyhead]

Are you saying that geeks are necessarily ugly? I beg to differ! Check out the hot undies that got thrown at me once!

http://members.rogers.com/wesleyhodgson/web/misc _0 12701/images/panties.jpg

Oh wait, I guess I AM an 31337 h4x0r afterall (if you're going to make fun, at least do it right), what with the CopyLeft shirt. :)

Bruce Sterling's to

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved the way Bruce Sterling's tongue felt on my ass...

That guys sucks cock like a trooper!

Re:Bruce Sterling's to

[Anonymous Coward]

so did i. want to join me and bruce in a anonymous coward-snotting?

Thanks

[czardonic]

I myself don't do much 'best practice' for crypto, because personally, I don't have a dog in that race.

I tend to be kind of pro-geek, myself, because geeks buy a lot of my novels.

Thanks, for your valuable insight. Do I make the check out to Bruce Sterling, or just Self-Absorbed Blowhard?

Re:Thanks

[HMC CS Major]

While for the most part, his ramblings and rants serve no real purpose, towards the end of his article there was something that struck me as worthwhile:

So. What might we do with crypto, if we were smart and constructive about it, and let bygones be bygones, and if we could pacify the brawling among dysfunctional interest groups who clearly are not mature enough to handle it? Well, my first suggestion would be crypto in passports. Because passports suck. It's time we dumped these ludicrously insecure and easily forgeable paper passports, and went for something a lot chippier.

Why not use a PGP/GPG like signature on passports? Or drivers licenses for that matter? A simple national key for signing all visas, passports, or other means of identification could easily verify the validity of such a piece of paper. It would be hard to forge, and easy to verify.

Bruce also made some rather silly/stupid comments:
You know what I want? I don't want a National ID Card. I want a Global Coalition Visa. .
Now, I was all for the national ID card when the idea was first proposed. It seemed worthwhile at the time : every person known to have terrorist connections could be tracked ; airlines could notify the government of movement, the government could warn the airlines that a suspected terrorist was on a plane. I realized the negative possibilities of this system, and have since changed my viewpoint, now seeing it as a possible way to eliminate virtually any privacy that even remotely exists on a personal level. A global card would be remarkably worse: not only would one not have any privacy at home, one would not have any privacy away from home; escape would become impossible. I, for one, have always assumed that IF domestic policies ever got to the point that they seriously bothered me, I would leave. A global card leaves you with no destination.

Re:Thanks

[(void*)]

And once the national key is compromised, all hell breaks loose.

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we're just back in the same situation we are now, with physical security on visas and drivers licenses until they can be signed with a new valid key. Driver licenses and visas have to be renewed every so often anyway, and so would eventually be replaced with once again securely signed IDs.

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

What words of "painfully frank" did you not f**cking understand?

He knows his audience and demographic for his books.

fast moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

that is some of the fastest moderation i've ever seen. the jew loving moderaters are awefully quick tonight.

a little something for you to think about... why is it that on slashdot you can criticise microsoft (run by whites and christians) but when you say anything bad about linux (developed by jews and homosexualists) your words are immediately censored? and isn't "Malda" a jewish name?
it all adds up the more you think about it

Re:fast moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

damn jews! first they take our jobs away from us and now this!

Re:fast moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

It adds up the more you think about it? Then in your case, I can't possibly believe it sums up to more than 4 (2 + 2 = 4 ). Suggestion: Think more. The more you think, the greater the CHANCE you may have produced a grain of truth. But the more you spew your mindless crap, the stupider you look, and the deeper the shit sea becomes, so deep that at times it is hard to traverse thanks to your kind. I guess we need a bigger, better boat. Or maybe we need to kick off a few scurvy dawgs, arrr me fuckface? To sum it up: I think you suck, and no, I am not a part of any of the groups you mentioned, but I don't like putting up with and listening to your stupid shit. Don't get me wrong, trolls can be fun, but this is pathetic!

CWB

[JimmyNickarzz]

There is no organization in Canada trying harder to justify its existence and appease its critics than the Canadian Wheat Board. In a political climate of increasingly free markets, the monopoly wheat seller is barrelling toward a life-or-death battle, and its recent actions show it has decided it won't go down without a fight. The Wheat Board, which sells $4.5-billion of Canada's wheat and barley annually, is facing a relentless barrage of criticism from a small number of vocal Prairie farmers. The growing vehemence of their complaints has sown doubts in the minds of a far larger number of farmers, who are becoming more quietly unsure whether the board's sales monopoly is the best model. Meanwhile, U.S. farm groups have filed yet another challenge to the board's sales practices, arguing its monopoly amounts to an unfair trade practice. The board has decided to address its critics with a new study on the economics of selling through a monopoly single desk versus an open competitive system. Numerous studies of this sort have been tried before, with entirely contradictory findings. All have been attacked for bias or dismissed for weak methodology, leaving the debate unsettled in farm circles. This time, the board hopes to produce something many more will accept. It has commissioned University of Saskatchewan professor Richard Gray to assess how effective the Wheat Board's monopoly selling actually is, comparing its returns with the returns farmers would have seen under identical market conditions without the board. Prof. Gray has posted his methodology for much debate on the Internet (with a link from the Wheat Board's Web site). He is still refining his system before actually producing a number, expected later this summer. The final number will attribute a value to the Wheat Board's work as a dollar amount per tonne of wheat. Wheat Board vice-president Earl Geddes, who is also a farmer, says the board will have to accept the study's conclusions, even if they happen to show a disappointingly marginal benefit from its existence. "If the benefit is not there, we should shut down." He admits the board is taking a risk commissioning the study without knowing the conclusions will be supportive. There are more risks looming. The board has also agreed to let the Auditor-General of Canada go through its books for the first time. Auditors have been working for months, and a report is expected this fall. Until then, the board is crossing its fingers that the report won't fuel accusations of excessive overhead costs or poor administration. The Wheat Board has no choice but to commission studies, open its books and address criticisms these days. After decades of a remote lack of interest in farmers' complaints, the board has awakened to the risks posed by a continuing political debate about whether it should lose its monopoly control. Only by becoming more responsive to farmers and more open to scrutiny can the board hope to win over those still sitting on the fence. The change of attitude began in 1998 when new legislation was adopted to let the board switch from government control to farmer control. It is now governed by a 15-member board, with 10 members elected by farmers. Mr. Geddes argues the change in board control has been an impetus for bigger changes. Last year, for example, the board introduced pricing options that allow farmers to lock in fixed returns or try to beat the board's pool return. Farmers can lock in a fixed price before the beginning of the crop year by taking a contract based on a U.S. futures price. "This is a function of the fact the organization is now run by 10 farmers," Mr. Geddes says. "They want a price-fixing mechanism before they plant their crops." This year, about 500 farmers representing about 150,000 tonnes of wheat signed up to sell under these contracts. Mr. Geddes believes these new flexible options will reduce demands from farmers to organize their own sales in the United States. "What will cool is the desire to put your wheat in a truck and truck it across the border," he says. "Had the Wheat Board done this seven or eight years ago, when all that border pressure was on, you could have addressed it with this selling mechanism." In an effort to address another criticism, the board has begun publishing the salaries of its senior executives, similar to public companies. (For those interested, president and chief executive officer Greg Arason was paid $250,000 last year.) It is no accident that these changes began in the late 1990s, as governments became increasingly supportive of unhindered markets and businesslike service models. In such a climate, discontented farmers have found more political support for change. The Canadian Alliance, for example, promised in last fall's election to make the Wheat Board a voluntary option for farmers. The Wheat Board has been forced to concede that the pleasant "all-for-one" justification for pooled selling falls on deaf ears these days unless it produces better financial results. Now the board is trying to prove that it does. The next few months will supply critical ammunition to the debate.

Re:CWB

[Anonymous Coward]

get a life

gvdl pgg!

[Anonymous Coward]

tufvje348 jt b gcdljoh cbtubse!

This message is weakly encrypted, to decrypt, take the previous letter of each letter in the message (eg z becomes y and o becomes n) its a sign of rage!

Re:gvdl pgg!

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation : Stevie237 is a fucking bastard!

Executive summary

[Otter]

Ummm, that gave me a huge headache. It reads like a Jon Katz piece, except by someone with a clue and a really annoying relentless hipster pose. I admit to hitting PageDn pretty quickly, but here's what I think the gist is. Readers with more patience are welcome to correct me:

A few people care an awful lot about cryptography, but the overwhelming majority of people just want safe credit card transactions. So that's what we've gotten. Cypherpunk types have colorful fantasies but are a joke if you're talking about real world implications. So the anti-crypto forces have beaten them but it's a Pyrrhic victory since the real challenge to the secret-keepers is highly available global information sharing.

Also, Sealand is stupid.

Re:Executive summary

[Anonymous Coward]

I fucking hate spooks. They should all burn in hell.

Re:Executive summary

[imrdkl]

Sterling makes a statement of his own at the end. And proposes something useful.

Re:Executive summary

[Anonymous Coward]

In my humble opinion I believe you are a diseased street whore. Yes, that is correct. You give it all up for anyone, even for free, just to get something warm down your throat. So trick, go suck my large sweaty erect greasy glistening cock right now!

Re:Executive summary

[Proteus Child]

Cypherpunk types have colorful fantasies but are a joke if you're talking about real world implications.

I hate to say it, but that's about right.. the cypherpunks have got some great ideas for applying strong crypto, near-ironclad anonymity, secret cash transfers, et al, but if John/Jane Q. Net.user won't use them because they're too esoteric, it means precisely nothing.

Now if it was suddenly cool to be able to use such software, then it would be a lot more widespread.

Re: Executive summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Why on earth is this "Executive Summary" given a 4 rating? Otter himself admitted that he didn't bother to read the whole thing, I imagine his lips got tired after the first two or three paragraphs. Traditionally summaries are provided by the author of the piece, or someone who has bothered to read it in its entirety; not by someone who's mad because the article reminds him (however vaguely) of a guy he hates.

Re:Executive summary

[Logic Bomb]

Um... no. If it was too complicated for you ("that gave me a huge headache") please don't try to summarize it for others. ;-P His main point was that the particular attitudes and priorities of those holding power in the crypto game -- M$ geeks and the spooks -- have managed to bore the public and run the whole thing into a dead end. He seems to think that cryptography actually has a whole bunch of practical uses that could make a substantive difference in our lives, but that's gotten lost thanks to misplaced priorities. The crypto issue, however, is just a representative example of how the dominant players in certain industries have detoured our huge push of technological progress off a bridge. (And, as is true with most any issue, the absolutists on either end of the spectrum are out of their minds.)

Also, Sealand is stupid.

Re:Executive summary

[Anonymous Coward]

You left one out. "I've been reading Gene Wolfe. Look, I got a new word: demimondaines!"

Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papacy

[MisterMo]

If we are approaching the age of cyberfeudalism, then cyberguilds (such as Apache, Jakarta, GNOME, and other self-styled independent "meritocratic" organizations) will be significant power holders. Good time to be a code artist, bad time to be a serf.

Taking the medieval analogy to its logical conclusion I have one question: who gets to be the pope? Bill Gates or Richard Stallman?

This is NOT off-topic...

Read This!!! It Might Just Save Your Life!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Important Information For Slashdot Users

It has come to my attention that the entire Slashdot editor crew engage in homosexual activities. CmdrTaco is one such person who shares in this, and is often referred to as the leader of this purely gay movement. This cult has been created for the worship and the spreading of Taco-Snotting beliefs and values. For further information on Taco-Snotting please refer to George WIPO Bush's Taco-Snotting FAQ which can be easily found by searching for the Slashdot journal of George WIPO Bush or by looking in the comments of Slashdot articles (Usually modded -1).

It has also come to my attention that CmdrTaco has other interests besides homosexuality (Believe it or not). One such interest includes a budding music career with a song titled "Gaping Anus". The details are sketchy on this topic but I know that besides the vocals of CmdrTaco, it also includes Slashdot editors Timothy and CowboyNeal, and it will include various references to others involved in this Taco-Snotting cult. One puzzling oddity is the inclusion of Pamela Lee Anderson in the song. If anyone has any information on this specific topic, please post it in under this message in the Slashdot comments. There has been no release date set for this album or which record label it will be produced under. I believe CmdrTaco is planning to set up his own label, Taco-Snotting Records, with the intention of releasing the song on a cd-single with various remixes as soon as possible to catch the current popularity of the Taco-Snotting fad (Don't believe this fad will ever be worn out like a Snotted-out-geek. I am sorry to say Taco-Snotting is here to stay :-( ). Various remixes of "Gaping Anus" will include the "Extra Jizz", "Snot Me Baby One More Time", "Non-Stop Hip Hop", "Gaping Man" (You know...the Gaping Man...the loose assed faggot from www.goatse.cx), and the "Once You Taco-Snot, You Can't Stop" versions. I am sure many, many, more are sure to come.

Through a good, non-homosexual friend of mine, I have recieved a copy of the lyrics to the "Gaping Anus" musical composition. Included at the end of this post is a very speical tribute ending written by yours truely. Perhaps CmdrTaco will ask of me to provide the vocals for this ending. Please feel free to read the lyrics (In TrueType font) and share your comments and disgust.

BTW, please do not reply with the intention of flaming me because the lyrics are a rip-off of ICP's "Slim Anus". CmdrTaco is the author of this fine musical work and not me. So, in conclusion it is obviously he who has ripped off ICP and not me. Thank you.

Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is Gaping Anus
Hi, my name is huh?
My name is what?
My name is the fudgepacker
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is the nutlicker
Hi, my name is what? (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My name is who?
My name is the buttsniffer

Hi, kids do you like Anus?
I let Linus Torvalds fill up my butt for a chance to be famous (Uh huh)
Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did? (Yeah)
Try Taco-Snotting and get your butt pumped out like I did?
My brains dead weight
I'm tryin to get my head straight
But I can't figure out
Which Slashdot editor I wanna impregnate
Timothy said, "CmdrTaco you a cutie" (Uh huh)
"I'll give you a deal, let me up in that booty" (OK!)
Well since age 12 I felt like I'm someone else
Cause I choked my original self Taco-Snotting him (Yup)
Got pissed off and ripped Pamela Lee's tits off
She don't know how to do Chris D
I'd suck his dick off

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it gets tapped dawg
Hi, my anus (Excuse me)
My anus
My anus every now and then gets plugged up
Hi, my anus (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My anus
My anus is occasionally reamed out
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus really needs to be filled up

My boss wanted to fire me yesterday
I told him to take his pants off, hooked him up, he let me slide
I pinched his ass
He winked at me
He chased me around the desk
I told him "Come and get me!"
Walked in the strip club
Had my jacket zipped up
Flashed the bartender
And I tried to feel his dick up
Extra-terestrial runnin over pedestrians
In a space ship while they screamin at me
Let's just be friends!
99% of my life I was lied to
I just found out my Mom screws more guys than I do (Damn)
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous Taco-Snotter
She met Michael, I couldn't believe it when he slapped her
You know you blew up when the women rush the stands
And try to touch your hands
But I need me a man
This guy at Gay Al's strip club asked for my autograph (Dude can I get your
autograph?)
So I signed it Dear Alan Cox, thanks for the support
Nice ass!

Hi, my name is huh?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is (They call me the pore plugger)
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is the inch itcher (Excuse me)
One of Slashdot's gay boys
They call me the butt itcher
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is (I've been called Hemos' butt boy)

Stop the tape this gaylord needs to be locked away (Get him)
Cliff, don't just stand there operate
Or feel up my balls and buttcheeks
Anal lube got my ass greasy for weeks
Stick your manhood between my cheeks (Yup)
Am I coming or going
I can barely decide
I just drank a pint of semen
Dare me to drive? (Go ahead)
All my life I was very deprived
CowboyNeal's butt is too sexy to hide
Take your pants off Neal I don't mind
Clothes rip like the incredible Hulk
I Taco-Snot when I talk
I do any guy that walks
When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits
Sometimes I sit and wish Hemos had a set of tits
CowboyNeal: "Get behind me CmdrTaco and grab me by my hips"
If I do that then I can't kiss you on your lips
By the way if you see my Dad
Ask him if he seen my spread in Gay House Porno Mag

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus gets tapped up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it's always getting plugged up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus occasionally reamed out
My anus it needs to be filled up

Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting plugged
Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting stuffed
You wanna diss us?
We don't even know you you little bitch
You wanna sit there and diss us?
You little bitch I'll slap your face off
That's what happens when you go up against the Slashdot Trolls trick
You little bitch (Laughs)
Gaping Anus!

Re:Read This!!! It Might Just Save Your Life!!!

[The Turd Report]

I like it. It has a funky beat and I can troll to it.

NSA Spooks?

[AbbaZabba]

I thought CIA guys were spooks. Is that term reserved for NSA people too? IS IT REALLY A GENERAL TERM FOR A SHADY Guv'ment worker?!

Re:NSA Spooks?

[MindStalker]

I think be meant spooks as in people who enjoy spreading misinformtion (FUD) and scaring people. People who like to say BOO!

Re:NSA Spooks?

[ArchieBunker]

I can think of some other people called spooks.

Re:NSA Spooks?

[bytes256]

The name Spook applies to all spies...whether they be CIA, NSA, KGB, MI6,...whatever.

Re:NSA Spooks?

[Anonymous Coward]

The term "spook" refers to any intelligence worker, from the Le Carre type agent to the young sailor listening to the radio for Al Queda communications. It refers to legitimate people and not "shady government workers"

Re:NSA Spooks?

[hughk]

As a general rule, if you work for the government but prefer to be anonymous with no job that you can tell other people about then you are a spook.

There are exceptions to this, the head of the CIA (I mean the real one, the Deputy not the politician at the top), for example has a job that is well known. He may even have a listed telephone number. As a manager of spooks though he/she (remember Stella Rimmington) is definitely a spook.

The main point about spooks is their anonymity. I like uniformed police officer because whenever they think about breaking the law, they have to remember that their identity is known (think about that even the cars are identified on their roofs).

Spooks are ghosts, there is no identity and no accountability.

Re:NSA Spooks?

[Travoltus]

You forgot MIB, UNATCO and DBZ

(oh wait, sorry, DBZ's a TV show, hehe)

Re:NSA Spooks?

[arkanes]

In my (fairly limited) experience, a spook is a intelligence operative. THerefore, it can be CIA, NSA, even Secret Service. Anyone who operates in secret and who's job is intelligence.

hey

[Anonymous Coward]

bruce springsteen sux

Read This!!! It Might Just Save Your Life!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Important Information For Slashdot Users

Because Chirstmas is on the horizon, I thought I would share to you a tale of what happened to me last Christmas. This is so you, the reader may be able to avoid the terror I have been through this upcoming holiday season.

Last Christmas, while visiting family, I spent a few nights in a Best Western hotel. It was comfortable yet affordable and I really enjoyed and appreciated their friendly knowledgeable staff. Why didn't I stay with my family in their house you ask? Well, there were children present and as children often do are a nuisance and I assumed would inturrupt my morning and nightly rituals. On my first night at the Best Western, I proceded to...oh, I think a song would better illustrate this...

Bite my lip and close my eyes
Take me away to paradise
I'm so damn bored I'm going blind
And I smell like shit

Oh, sorry, wrong song...

Exit light
Enter night
Take my hand
Off to never never land

Yeah... uh, thats right.

As I drifted off to sleep, I was startled by noises. It seems the residents in the next room were making a downright lot amount of noise. I was about to bang on the wall again but was curious at what was being discused so I pressed my ear up against the wall and listened. Here are the words that have been forever burnt into my previously virgin mind:

CmdrTaco:
Nowadays everybody wanna talk
But nothing comes out
When they move the lips
Its just a bunch of jibberish
And motherfuckers act like CmdrTaco aint' gay
Everybody forgot
What happened?
What up Linus

Linus Torvalds: Yeah

CmdrTaco:
It's all about Linus
It's all about Linus

Linus Torvalds: Linus is in the house

CmdrTaco: Yeah, thats right Linus is in the house

Linus Torvalds: Come here pull down your panites you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Aiight, hold up dawg go easy on me and shit you ripped my asshole last time

Linus Torvalds: Come get some of this Monolithic Kernel

CmdrTaco: Let me take off this white shirt so you can see my bird chest

Linus Torvalds: You wanna be famous?

CmdrTaco: Uh huh

Linus Torvalds: Spread that bitch ass

CmdrTaco: It's all about Linus

Linus Torvalds: Yeah, Linus

CmdrTaco: Uh, dawg, your hurting me dawg

Linus Torvalds: Your the loosest Slashdot editor you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Your ripping my asshole dawg, hold on a sec, wait don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Yeah

CmdrTaco: Hold on a sec, don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Come here

CmdrTaco: Wait, uh wait, uh, hold on don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Take all of this Monolithic Kernel

CmdrTaco: Hold on don't bust, do it on my lip like a milk ad

Linus Torvalds: Linus is in that ass

CmdrTaco:
It's all about Linus
It's all about Linus, ahh ahh

Linus Torvalds: You wanna be famous you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Man don't tell CowboyNeal dawg please, it's all about Linus Torvalds

Linus Torvalds: Aiight, now get the fuck out of here

CmdrTaco: Aww shit

I constantly wonder why God has allowed me to hear this horror. Maybe it is because I am the chosen one and the Time of Purification is at hand. Or maybe God has simply punished me for my lifetime of sins. Or perhaps the devil was involved in this brillant scheme. You may ask me why I have shared such an awful tale. It because I feed off the horror others experience from my story and it gives me the strength to continue living. Now that I haved shared this with you, you are going straight to hell with me, that is if you don't murder yourself in a bloody orgy of hatred for me and these two homosexuals who are the star of my timeless tale.

Lynch mob?

[DaoudaW]

The point of this device would be to arm the population in surveilling and recording acts of unconventional warfare.

Now, if you turn the entire population into anonymous snoops and peeping Toms, it's a nation of snitches, which is very destabilizing. I'm not suggesting that.

This is the civilian militia Minuteman version of surveillance.

How does Bruce distinguish this from a lynch mob or posse of surveillance?

I read through those paragraphs several times, and I really can't figure out how Bruce gets around the destabilization problem that he himself points out. Somehow the fact that these are really sophisticated, cool devices is supposed to make them immune to mis-use.

Re:Lynch mob?

[mdwebster]

His distinguishing bit is having each device be inextricably linked back to a real person. There would obviously be some sort of penalty to call in false reports. The anonymous piece is what he believes would be very destabilizing.

Re:Lynch mob?

[Lumpish Scholar]

How does Bruce distinguish this from a lynch mob or posse of surveillance?

The KKK wore hoods.

If they wore T-shirts with their driver's license numbers writ large and visible from all angles, they wouldn't have formed lynch mobs.

Read the text Mr. Sterling wrote between the last two sentences you quoted:

I'm not suggesting that. I am suggesting secure, accountable devices with digital signatures built in. They're cryptographically time-stamped, their voice signals and photographs are cryptographically overwritten, proving their source. They are tamperproofed, and very sternly verifiable, and usable as proven evidence in courts of law. They're not civilian toys, they are genuine weapons of information warfare, in much the same way that an unarmed Predator surveillance aircraft is a weapon. They are people's media weapons. Their proper use requires some training and discretion; it's like a citizen's audiovisual arrest.

Re:Lynch mob?

[Winged Cat]

So, what happens when - not if - the identity information gets stripped out while it's being reported by others, because the others care about the dirt and not so much about who vouches for it? ("A bunch of people sent me video of you doing this thing we object to. No, I'm not gonna tell you who they are. No, I'm not gonna spend the bandwidth to forward you all that video so you can see it yourself and see if they're faked, or all actually the same person. I'm just gonna find you guilty.")

Re:Lynch mob?

[imrdkl]

A device is ok, if I can make own keypair, have it signed by "authority", and then install it into the device. The device can be transferred.

I would use no key but one I have created myself with software I trust.

Our Bruce fails to mention this, I believe. In fact, he proposes builtin keys.

Re:Lynch mob?

[Anonymous Coward]

At what level do you trust what software?

The bios code in the system you run your trusted software on? What about the microcode in the processor? Needless to say the firmware in the hard drive, on the video controller, the keyboard controller, the keyboard itself....

Better start wiring up some diode arrays dude. You've got a whole lotta bootstrapping to do.

Re:Lynch mob?

[sphealey]

The KKK wore hoods.

If they wore T-shirts with their driver's license numbers writ large and visible from all angles, they wouldn't have formed lynch mobs.

That conveniently ignores the fact that the county sheriff usually knew exactly who the members of the lynch mob were, and his deputies were often part of the mob. So if an imbalance of power exists, having that information would probably only make it worse for those at the wrong end of the see-saw.

sPh

Re:Lynch mob?

[RobertFisher]

Incidentally, this concept is nothing new. David Brin's Earth novel, written more than a decade ago, foresaw a future in which wireless networking was ubiqitous, and civilians routinely archived all of their waking moments with inexpensive video and audio recorders. A natural consequence of this voyeuristic society, as Brin envisioned it, was the virtual elimination of most violent crime.

Bob

Re:Lynch mob?

[Caelum]

That conveniently ignores the fact that the county sheriff usually knew exactly who the members of the lynch mob were, and his deputies were often part of the mob. So if an imbalance of power exists, having that information would probably only make it worse for those at the wrong end of the see-saw.
</blockquote>

Of course the sheriff knew, but his job was not upholding moral righteousness, merely responding to things the community wanted him to respond to or would complain about.

If KKK members had their driver's license printed on their t-shirts, the sheriff can no longer claim ignorance, and would be forced to follow up reports or be accused of corruption during the next election.

Re:Lynch mob?

[demo]

> How does Bruce distinguish this from a lynch mob or posse of surveillance?

Civilian surveillance is a Good Thing. It keeps the authorities more or less in line.

Google around for police shooting WTO protersters and more...

Re:Lynch mob?

[DaoudaW]

Actually I was thinking more about McCarthyism were political fortunes were made by false accusations.

Re:Lynch mob?

[mdwebster]

He's talking of something that would be reporting to a government archive. Assumedly the only time something in this archive could be used against you would be in a court of law. He says all the images and voice would be cryptographically cross-signed to prevent easy fakes. Also that the devices themselves would be strongly tamper-resistant, e.g. they report themselves to the government whenever anything happens to try and crack them open. Sure, it wouldn't prevent someone dressing up like you and doing whatever, but geez, that possibility is out there right now with camcorders... He's just talking about making it widespread.

Re:Lynch mob?

[J. J. Ramsey]

> "The KKK wore hoods."

> "If they wore T-shirts with their driver's license numbers writ large and visible from all angles, they wouldn't have formed lynch mobs."

"That conveniently ignores the fact that the county sheriff usually knew exactly who the members of the lynch mob were"

There's one thing that you are missing. Even if the sheriff knew who the local KKK members were, with the hoods, the sheriff could either feign total ignorance of the lynchers' identities, or simply say that the hoods kept him from identifying *which* KKK members were doing the lynching.

Re:Lynch mob?

[evilviper]

Democracy is founded on the idea that there are more people on the side of 'right' than on the side of injustice.

In otherwords, the people across the nation would see what the sheriff was doing, and tell him to take a hike. With a mask, nobody knows it's the sheriff, and he can deny any involvement.

You really can't argue that the minority in charge ever goes against the majority sentiment in favor of the rights of any group. That just hasn't been the case historically.

Minority groups always recieve their rights only after the majority of the people agree that they should have those rights. The leaders just look at the polls and go along with the people (unless it's one of their financial sponsors being on the wrong side of public opinion).

Re:Lynch mob?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is in effect what shows like "America's Most Wanted" have already enabled, and done well, and what many parents who have convicted sex offenders move into their neighborhoods wish they could do, and people who live in housing developments with restrictive Covenants and Restrictions and zealous enforcers experience.

If you do it right, it can work well. If you do it bad, you get Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, or post-Columbine public schools.

Re:Lynch mob?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and this depends on how you define your sets.
Sure, locally, in Zuud Afrika, the Afrikaaners kept the others at bay with Apartheid, for quite some time.

But in the global community context, they eventually were forced by the global majority to let go.

Re:Lynch mob?

[Winged Cat]

He's talking of something that would be reporting to a government archive. Assumedly the only time something in this archive could be used against you would be in a court of law.

You don't even need to cite the long history of government abuses of power for this one (though that would help). Open information, sunshine laws, freedom of information: usually a good thing; in this case, they allow just anyone to view the data. Which in itself is not so bad, but then people can say "there is data in the archives", and use that claim - without letting others verify it, just banking on public desire for scandal to let the public assume it's actually there - to accuse others of anything. Yes, it falls far short of our (and most legal) standards of proof, but I'm talking about the court of public opinion.

Sure, it wouldn't prevent someone dressing up like you and doing whatever, but geez, that possibility is out there right now with camcorders... He's just talking about making it widespread.

Aye, and there's another rub. If video evidence is even more heavily believed and easier to obtain, then the cost/benefit to faking a personal act and filming it shifts in the faker's favor.

Read This!!! It Might Just Save Your Life!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Important Information For Slashdot Users

It has come to my attention that the entire Slashdot editor crew engage in homosexual activities. CmdrTaco is one such person who shares in this, and is often referred to as the leader of this purely gay movement. This cult has been created for the worship and the spreading of Taco-Snotting beliefs and values. For further information on Taco-Snotting please refer to George WIPO Bush's Taco-Snotting FAQ which can be easily found by searching for the Slashdot journal of George WIPO Bush or by looking in the comments of Slashdot articles (Usually modded -1).

It has also come to my attention that CmdrTaco has other interests besides homosexuality (Believe it or not). One such interest includes a budding music career with a song titled "Gaping Anus". The details are sketchy on this topic but I know that besides the vocals of CmdrTaco, it also includes Slashdot editors Timothy and CowboyNeal, and it will include various references to others involved in this Taco-Snotting cult. One puzzling oddity is the inclusion of Pamela Lee Anderson in the song. If anyone has any information on this specific topic, please post it in under this message in the Slashdot comments. There has been no release date set for this album or which record label it will be produced under. I believe CmdrTaco is planning to set up his own label, Taco-Snotting Records, with the intention of releasing the song on a cd-single with various remixes as soon as possible to catch the current popularity of the Taco-Snotting fad (Don't believe this fad will ever be worn out like a Snotted-out-geek. I am sorry to say Taco-Snotting is here to stay :-( ). Various remixes of "Gaping Anus" will include the "Extra Jizz", "Snot Me Baby One More Time", "Non-Stop Hip Hop", "Gaping Man" (You know...the Gaping Man...the loose assed faggot from www.goatse.cx), and the "Once You Taco-Snot, You Can't Stop" versions. I am sure many, many, more are sure to come.

Through a good, non-homosexual friend of mine, I have recieved a copy of the lyrics to the "Gaping Anus" musical composition. Included at the end of this post is a very speical tribute ending written by yours truely. Perhaps CmdrTaco will ask of me to provide the vocals for this ending. Please feel free to read the lyrics (In TrueType font) and share your comments and disgust.

BTW, please do not reply with the intention of flaming me because the lyrics are a rip-off of ICP's "Slim Anus". CmdrTaco is the author of this fine musical work and not me. So, in conclusion it is obviously he who has ripped off ICP and not me. Thank you.

Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is Gaping Anus
Hi, my name is huh?
My name is what?
My name is the fudgepacker
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is the nutlicker
Hi, my name is what? (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My name is who?
My name is the buttsniffer

Hi, kids do you like Anus?
I let Linus Torvalds fill up my butt for a chance to be famous (Uh huh)
Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did? (Yeah)
Try Taco-Snotting and get your butt pumped out like I did?
My brains dead weight
I'm tryin to get my head straight
But I can't figure out
Which Slashdot editor I wanna impregnate
Timothy said, "CmdrTaco you a cutie" (Uh huh)
"I'll give you a deal, let me up in that booty" (OK!)
Well since age 12 I felt like I'm someone else
Cause I choked my original self Taco-Snotting him (Yup)
Got pissed off and ripped Pamela Lee's tits off
She don't know how to do Chris D
I'd suck his dick off

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it gets tapped dawg
Hi, my anus (Excuse me)
My anus
My anus every now and then gets plugged up
Hi, my anus (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My anus
My anus is occasionally reamed out
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus really needs to be filled up

My boss wanted to fire me yesterday
I told him to take his pants off, hooked him up, he let me slide
I pinched his ass
He winked at me
He chased me around the desk
I told him "Come and get me!"
Walked in the strip club
Had my jacket zipped up
Flashed the bartender
And I tried to feel his dick up
Extra-terestrial runnin over pedestrians
In a space ship while they screamin at me
Let's just be friends!
99% of my life I was lied to
I just found out my Mom screws more guys than I do (Damn)
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous Taco-Snotter
She met Michael, I couldn't believe it when he slapped her
You know you blew up when the women rush the stands
And try to touch your hands
But I need me a man
This guy at Gay Al's strip club asked for my autograph (Dude can I get your
autograph?)
So I signed it Dear Alan Cox, thanks for the support
Nice ass!

Hi, my name is huh?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is (They call me the pore plugger)
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is the inch itcher (Excuse me)
One of Slashdot's gay boys
They call me the butt itcher
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is (I've been called Hemos' butt boy)

Stop the tape this gaylord needs to be locked away (Get him)
Cliff, don't just stand there operate
Or feel up my balls and buttcheeks
Anal lube got my ass greasy for weeks
Stick your manhood between my cheeks (Yup)
Am I coming or going
I can barely decide
I just drank a pint of semen
Dare me to drive? (Go ahead)
All my life I was very deprived
CowboyNeal's butt is too sexy to hide
Take your pants off Neal I don't mind
Clothes rip like the incredible Hulk
I Taco-Snot when I talk
I do any guy that walks
When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits
Sometimes I sit and wish Hemos had a set of tits
CowboyNeal: "Get behind me CmdrTaco and grab me by my hips"
If I do that then I can't kiss you on your lips
By the way if you see my Dad
Ask him if he seen my spread in Gay House Porno Mag

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus gets tapped up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it's always getting plugged up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus occasionally reamed out
My anus it needs to be filled up

Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting plugged
Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting stuffed
You wanna diss us?
We don't even know you you little bitch
You wanna sit there and diss us?
You little bitch I'll slap your face off
That's what happens when you go up against the Slashdot Trolls trick
You little bitch (Laughs)
Gaping Anus!

go suck.....

[Anonymous Coward]

....a great big donkey nut!

More Echelon Rubbish

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus christ. Here we go again.
More paranoid, hyped-up, inaccurate bollocks about a system which NONE of you have the first clue about. And you want to know why you're still stabbing in the dark for answers? Because they're not there.
The folks down in Cheltenham and our brethren in Fort Mead must be pissing themselves with laughter. And that echelonwatch.org site? Whichever crank thinks these things up spends too much time stroking their X-Files box set collection.
ECHELON - Extremely Crude Hyped Espionage Lying Overtly to Nerds

Ha.

Yea yea

[Anonymous Coward]

Then comes a cyber-renessaince and then cyber-socialism, communism and democracy. Just like Civ III.

Re:Yea yea

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait for cyber-communism. With all of these size 12+ cities around, imagine how many modern armour and mechanized infantry we will be able to support for free.

Bruce Sterling says

[dustman]

I want to scream with wild dog joy in the smoking pit of a charnel house

Oh, come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderators : should be (score: -1, redundant). Thank you

STFU Katz is as redundant as "first post". It's just one of those truisms that need to be repeated until we can all achieve trollvana.



Am I IP banned or not?

What I'm really interested in is...

[imrdkl]

what's the AC take on this?

Re:What I'm really interested in is...

[Anonymous Coward]

You may bow before me.

Signed,
Obersturmbahnfuhrer AC

Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Bud Dwyer]

If we are approaching the age of cyberfeudalism, then cyberguilds (such as Apache, Jakarta, GNOME, and other self-styled independent "meritocratic" organizations) will be significant power holders. Good time to be a code artist, bad time to be a serf.

OSS projects as centers of power? Are you kidding me? The manager at your local K-Mart has more power than Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman combined.

What you're missing, is that the "code artists" are the serfs. Writing code is low-level labor--to the information age what plowing fields was to the age of agriculture. The only way you can cease to be a serf, is to cease writing code. Code is just a commodity, like wheat. Useless in and of itself. Useful if you can make money off its sale. The management class is the one that structures deals and creates wealth. That's the way it always has been and always will be.

fucking daylight saving time!

[Anonymous Coward]

IF&nbsp I&nbsp EVER&nbsp MEEPT&nbsp BEN&nbsp FRANKLIN,&nbsp I&nbsp WILL&nbsp KICK&nbsp HIS&nbsp GOAT!

Re:fucking daylight saving time!

[Anonymous Coward]

I "meept" Ben Franklin's daughter in the ass last night. What a slut, she kept begging for it so I gave it to her. Man did I give it to her.

Re:Is this a....WARNING THAT COULD SAVE YO LIFE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Important Information For Slashdot Users

Because Chirstmas is on the horizon, I thought I would share to you a tale of what happened to me last Christmas. This is so you, the reader may be able to avoid the terror I have been through this upcoming holiday season.

Last Christmas, while visiting family, I spent a few nights in a Best Western hotel. It was comfortable yet affordable and I really enjoyed and appreciated their friendly knowledgeable staff. Why didn't I stay with my family in their house you ask? Well, there were children present and as children often do are a nuisance and I assumed would inturrupt my morning and nightly rituals. On my first night at the Best Western, I proceded to...oh, I think a song would better illustrate this...

Bite my lip and close my eyes
Take me away to paradise
I'm so damn bored I'm going blind
And I smell like shit

Oh, sorry, wrong song...

Exit light
Enter night
Take my hand
Off to never never land

Yeah... uh, thats right.

As I drifted off to sleep, I was startled by noises. It seems the residents in the next room were making a downright lot amount of noise. I was about to bang on the wall again but was curious at what was being discused so I pressed my ear up against the wall and listened. Here are the words that have been forever burnt into my previously virgin mind:

CmdrTaco:
Nowadays everybody wanna talk
But nothing comes out
When they move the lips
Its just a bunch of jibberish
And motherfuckers act like CmdrTaco aint' gay
Everybody forgot
What happened?
What up Linus

Linus Torvalds: Yeah

CmdrTaco:
It's all about Linus
It's all about Linus

Linus Torvalds: Linus is in the house

CmdrTaco: Yeah, thats right Linus is in the house

Linus Torvalds: Come here pull down your panites you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Aiight, hold up dawg go easy on me and shit you ripped my asshole last time

Linus Torvalds: Come get some of this Monolithic Kernel

CmdrTaco: Let me take off this white shirt so you can see my bird chest

Linus Torvalds: You wanna be famous?

CmdrTaco: Uh huh

Linus Torvalds: Spread that bitch ass

CmdrTaco: It's all about Linus

Linus Torvalds: Yeah, Linus

CmdrTaco: Uh, dawg, your hurting me dawg

Linus Torvalds: Your the loosest Slashdot editor you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Your ripping my asshole dawg, hold on a sec, wait don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Yeah

CmdrTaco: Hold on a sec, don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Come here

CmdrTaco: Wait, uh wait, uh, hold on don't bust

Linus Torvalds: Take all of this Monolithic Kernel

CmdrTaco: Hold on don't bust, do it on my lip like a milk ad

Linus Torvalds: Linus is in that ass

CmdrTaco:
It's all about Linus
It's all about Linus, ahh ahh

Linus Torvalds: You wanna be famous you little bitch

CmdrTaco: Man don't tell CowboyNeal dawg please, it's all about Linus Torvalds

Linus Torvalds: Aiight, now get the fuck out of here

CmdrTaco: Aww shit

I constantly wonder why God has allowed me to hear this horror. Maybe it is because I am the chosen one and the Time of Purification is at hand. Or maybe God has simply punished me for my lifetime of sins. Or perhaps the devil was involved in this brillant scheme. You may ask me why I have shared such an awful tale. It because I feed off the horror others experience from my story and it gives me the strength to continue living. Now that I haved shared this with you, you are going straight to hell with me, that is if you don't murder yourself in a bloody orgy of hatred for me and these two homosexuals who are the star of my timeless tale.

missing the point

[the_rev_matt]

I found this highly entertaining, but people who do not have a particularly dry sense of humour may not enjoy it. I think he makes some excellent points, especially when addressing some of the things our spy industry does that the mainstream media covers up.

Boooring

[nusuth]

If you like Mr. Sterling but don't like him so much that you want to spare a good 15 minutes to a pointless monologue, don't read it. Go read something like "hacker crackdown" or "the difference engine." I'm very disappointed, must be one of his worst talks.

Hey mod, I'm just trying to help my fellow /.ers.

Daaaaamn!

[Anonymous Coward]

Youse guys are trolling the crap out of this story! Kudos!



"Don't make me have to get all surrealisic on your ass!

Re:Daaaaamn!

[JimmyNickarzz]

I request a flme in your name.

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[Anonymous Coward]

How could these be power holders? Power over what?

i second that!

[Anonymous Coward]

i second that! he should be tied and burned at the stake! whos with me?

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly right. No one ever tries to describe use. They are running around but never define anything. What's the point?
Howard Roark

Bruce Sterling has always been kind of dorky

[Bud Dwyer]

Have you seen this guys picture? Niether sexy, nor cool, IMO. He looks visibly Canadian, so that tells you something right there.

I think somebody forgot to tell Bruce that 1994 cyber-chic is over. Wired was never cool, and certainly isn't anymore. Most of the "geeks" that got rich off the internet bubble are now back in their parents's basements. The yuppies have moved on, too. Now, instead of geeks they idolize cops and firefighters (and that's the way it should be).

Geeks in general, and Bruce Sterling in particular, need to stop living in a fantasy world where they are the center of attention. So, you work in the world of technology? So what? You want a prize? There are millions of people working in more essential jobs than you.

Re:Bruce Sterling has always been kind of dorky

[Anonymous Coward]

Wired was never cool.

Mondo 2000 is still cool.

If you've never heard of it, you'll never be cool.

Re:Bruce Sterling has always been kind of dorky

[Anonymous Coward]

Mondo 2000 is still cool.

Ahahaha! Mondo 2000 was never cool, unless you were a clueless poseur, with no technical understanding of computers or the net whatsoever. It appealed only to stoner art undergrads and raver morons.

Re:Bruce Sterling has always been kind of dorky

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess you didn't bother to read it?

If you did, try reading it until you understand it.

Re:Bruce Sterling has always been kind of dorky

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey man, nice shot.

I hereby request

[JimmyNickarzz]

A flame in your name.

The ironic origin of guilds

[MisterMo]

No, no, what you are missing is that guilds often completely controlled vertical access to the work and its manufacture. They were the only ones with the necessary combination of expertise, resources, and political connections to go from raw resource to fungible commodity.

If...wait, BIG IF...Sterling and Lessig are right about the concentration and fragmentation of power going on right now, then in order to attract new features/projects, the big remaining software powers, lacking all creativity, will eventually be forced to grant monopolies to the most promising software creators. (Just as in the medieval period, guilds were often established as a "recruiting tool" to snarf the foreign experts in some new field.)

It is the combined package of code that works, lore about that code, and restricted access to the CVS tree that is interesting... Without this, I agree with you that serfdom is the unfortunate result.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[JohnGalt3]

Guilds in the past had some concept of ownership or property. This can't be compared to the examples given by the original poster. If there is no property, who is controlling access to what? And who is to profit? If large companies aren't "creating", it is only because there is no productive value in the creation. If there were some valuable thing to create, in a truly free economy, there would be a creator. By what criteria is open source "creative"? In a free market, there happens to be a *purpose* to creation. Yes, the current rate of creation is very slow, but by what logic can that mean that the answer is the dissolusion of intellectual property? It would seem that the problem is the lack of control of property.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[MisterMo]

If I'm not mistaken, although guilds certainly came in many forms (and evolved over hundreds of years), most of the time they were about control, mutual protection, and subsidy, rather than property ownership. There are many historical links to be Googled that gloss the concept - I think that you'll find that most support my viewpoint.

I also was not saying anything about the "dissolution of intellectual property." Just like guilds, open source communities are often about control, mutual protection, and subsidy. Hardware vendors and device manufacturers, for example, often underwrite development efforts; businesses have been known to band together around shared interests or cost-sharing; individuals who have an itch wish to share the resulting project with an adoring public; etc. As Lessig says in The Future of Ideas, copyright is not based on the concept of tangible property...instead, it is about tangible control over who can use the copyrighted material. Property was only a secondary factor for guild success (if at all), and creation of source code may turn out to be secondary to ongoing nurture of that source code for my hypothetical "open source guilds."

Most important was (and is) the successful commerce in services that resulted! (Neo-mercantilism must be just around the corner... :)

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[JohnGalt3]

First off, the argument of an economic system of "mutual protection" and "subsidy" rather than property ownership equates to the argument for the dissolution of intellectual property. If you can't own property, then who owns intellectual property?
Compare the advancements of the guild system in its own time (many centuries) vs. the advancements of a generally economic system such as the US.
I never doubted the intention of the guild systems of mutual protection and control; I'm sure Google will support your point. Search for "Advancements in the Middle Ages" and I believe that Google will support mine.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[rodentia]

I'll save your Comp101 instructor some trouble: using Google hits as primary support for your thesis is of dubious value.

Just a few facts will serve to moot your comparison: literacy, currency, horsepower.

Your construction equating value with property is a gross simplification. You should do some reading beyond the material supporting your political fetish.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[JohnGalt3]

I was using Google only in response to the previous poster. In what way did I equate value with property? In response to your facts- what do a single one of those items have to do with my post? If they have some relevance, you didn't provide enough of an argument or context to make those concepts mean anything.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[rodentia]

Forgive me, I mistakenly presumed your ability to follow a train of thought on a track other than your own.

You compare the rate of advancement (cultural/political/technical, I am unsure) during the Middle Ages to that demonstrated by America. The comparison is absurd in the extreme, partly by virtue of disparities in the three areas I mention, among a host of others, but principally in consequence of the fact that modern American progress is impossible without the historical foundation laid in the West. I was astonished at your snarky tone with a poster who was pointing out the benefits represented by a form of collective enterprise which predates and supports the latter development of mercantile capitalism and all the blossoms that tree bears.

As to the equation of value and property, perhaps you should consult your post again.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[JohnGalt3]

You've said absolutely nothing. My argument is that the rate of advancement in the US is far greater than the rate of advancement in the Middle Ages under the guild system. By advancement, I mean any area that would increase the standard of living. This would include the items that you mention. You rebuke with- The comparison between the Middle Ages and American is wrong ("absurd") because of differences ("disparities") in cultural/political/technical advancement. I don't really see any point in that statment. You are saying that I'm wrong because there is a difference in the rate of advancement. You also say that the American economic system is some sort of evolution from the "collective enterprise" system used in guilds, but provide no argument to back up that statement. Because the Middle Ages predated American progress isn't an argument for some sort of evolution in and of itself. Even with sufficient argument that a free enterprise system was built off of or inspired by the Middle Ages, my original argument is rebuked in no way, nor would that argument support the guild system.

Re:The ironic origin of guilds

[rodentia]

You reply as though each post were taking place in a vacuum.

Literacy:

(middle ages - single digits, admit vanishingly small)

(1870 america - 80%*)

• SOURCE: U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, Historical Statistics of the United States, Colonial Times to 1970; and Current Population Reports, Series P-23, Ancestry and Language in the United States: November 1979.

Currency:

Prior to the eleventh century, an effective currency of exchange did not even exist. Coinage was that left from Roman times and did not figure in the effective economy at all. Even as late as the fifteenth century, commerce was carried out via Bills of Exchange denominated in Moneys of Account. The vast majority of Europeans before this lived and died without ever seeing a coin, let alone using one in a transaction.

The United States has enjoyed a more or less stable system of currency since its inception.

Horsepower:

Prior to the development of an agriculture based on animal husbandry in the fourteenth century, the use of draft animals in europe was effectively non-existent. Thus, available horsepower was contingent upon the size of one's family. Industry, such as it existed, was able to make use of wind and water to some benefit.

Steam.

• SOURCE: The Cambridge Economic History of Europe. Vol IV: The Economy of Expanding Europe in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries. Rich, E.E. and Wilson, C.H. Eds. Cambridge, 1967.

You contend that a comparison between the rate of advancement of living standards in the Medieval period and even nineteenth century America supports your argument that the guild system is somehow inferior to a system of free enterprise. I suggest that a productive comparison between these two systems is effectively impossible, not least because a comparison of *rates of advancement* is untenable in consequence of the disparity of circumstance outlined above. This is merely *a precis*. Your argument is such a gross simplification as to beggar discussion. As to the evolution of capitalism, western economy in general and its relation to the medieval system of guilds, I refer you to the first chapter of the above book. Until you've done a deal of reading, further debate is impossible.

Something is amiss here...

[tych0]

Bruce decided that our government should be the primary distributors of crypto, and that it should arm private citizens with secure transmitting devices. At first, this sounds like a great idea: the masses rise up in defense of their great nation and take the evil barbarians by storm! The intelligence agencies would love it because they would now have information streaming in, and they would not have to go through the trouble of getting a warrant for a wiretap or bugs. However, the problem arises when you consider the government presumably giving the worlds most powerful crypto to Joe and Jane Citizen These are the people who the government would not trust with conventional military hardware, much less something with the capability to destroy people's lives by ultimately providing their closest held secrets to Washington, free of charge. It brings to mind several scenes from Orwell's 1984, where it was the 'private' citizen who turned in his fellows to Big Brother.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[JohnGalt3]

How are you turning a voluntary information tool into Big Brother? It seems like this is the perfect way to combat terrorism if current events continue to happen within our own borders. I would much rather see the power of surveillence in my own hands than a government agency that has no form of accountability. I think that's what Sterling was trying to point out.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[elmegil]

So tell me: how will I guarantee that the device (which we've already established is directly imprinted to recognize and confirm to a legal degree who I am, and with trivial GPS probably also where I am) is not on when I don't want it to be on?

Without that guarantee, it's a tool of big brother, because I can be snooped on whenever the listeners wish. And don't give me some hogwash about taking out the batteries; if it were that easy, someone would take out my batteries before they took me out.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[JohnGalt3]

There wouldn't have to be a GPS device in the phone. All that Sterling addressed was some form of identification. I'm sure that such devices could be publicly made and privately tested to ensure that no GPS activity is involved. In this sense, yes, it would be a tool of the government.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[tych0]

Just to set the record straight, I am not concerned about Big Brother getting intelligence; I am concerned that my neighbor who has a grudge against me will film me through my window while I am reading, for instance, the alt.2600 newsgroup and submitting that as evidence of my plans to subvert the government. Government intelligence agencies do have oversight. Private individuals do not have oversight, they are not accountable to anyone. Maybe I am not cool enough to distrust everything about the government, but I fear the tyrrany of the minority more than an inefficient bureaucracy.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[Christopher Biggs]

Don't think of it as a telescreen link to the Thought Police, think of it as 911 on 'roids:

You're walking home from the train station, when a knife wielding mugger approaches....

You pull out your cellphone, point it at him and say "smile kid, you're on Cop TV".

Re:Something is amiss here...

[elmegil]

Ok, so it doesn't know where I am, but it can still hear me any time they want to listen. So how is that not "big brother"?

Re:Something is amiss here...

[Saint Fnordius]

So, Bruce wants to combine an ID thingy with a videocamera-cell phone? A device that lets you play reporter or cop, and is impossible to spoof? Good luck.

Actually, this has been going on ever since the LA cops got caught whalin' on some DUI named Rodney King. Most of the news footage from 11.9.01 came from amateurs. And CNN's videophones are starting to catch on, sort of like mobile videoconferencing.

The pipe dream in all of this is making it equivalent to a form of ID. Do I really want to lug this thing around with me everywhere I go? What if I want to mix and match, a Sony camera and a Nokia phone? And what it I want to use this thing for private entertainment? What do you meain, I can't? Does that mean I need an extra version for private use?

This shoudn't be in the hands of a regulatory body.Each customer and manufacturer should decide for himself how deep and in which direction they want to go. Sorta like what's happening as we speak--er, write.

Re:Something is amiss here...

[kiwaiti]

If it records and transmits, it must use power. You keep the device, so you are responsible of recharging it. Testing the devices for activity during the time when they should be switched off would be fairly easy - just monitor their power consumption.

This is just off the top of my head - there are probably more subtle approaches promising more accurate results.

Kiwaiti

Re:Something is amiss here...

[Anonymous Coward]

..but people already do have such devices: it's called a pay telephone, and a postage stamp.

Wanna ruin a politician or other public figure? Call a reporter. Mail them a package with pictures in it. If it seems credible, the reporter might pick up on it, and it might see the light of day, especially if it's true, and they can catch the figure talking out of both sides of their mouth.

Think about the 1-800 #s at various Child Protective Services. If you are a parent, you do have in the back of your mind, when reprimanding your children, that some well-meaning person could interpret what you are doing as abusive, call the cops, and then you're in must-prove-innocence mode...

How's this? A few years ago, was coming home to Seattle after a bike race in eastern Washington. Stopped at a store in Yakima. It was hot. Went inside with wife for 5 minutes. Came back out, was walking dog in the shade, a cop shows up. AFter a few minutes, he figures I'm the one I need to be talked to, the one he was called to investigate. Luckily, he was as baffled by the situation as I was. Obviously the caller didn't leave a good description of our car, dog or license plate #.

Within *5* minutes someone had decided I was torturing my dog and made an anonymous call, of course, to the police.

Anyone who has lived in a small, gossipy town or community knows how bad things can get, too.

sylvia raphael: naked and petrified!

[Anonymous Coward]

now, is it sexist to insult an international murderer criminal
just because she is a woman? well, i dont really know,
i mean, i think you should ask women how they feel about it.

but really, i fantasize about the romantic getaway with the
evil woman from the enemy side, as every good american boy knows
south africa was a corrupt racist regime in the 80s.
so much like james bond having babies with russian female super-spies, maybe
or giancarlo gianini seducing the female-nazi-prison-guard in 'seven beauties',
perhaps
this fantasy of mine about sylvia raphael is not unprecedented.

but really, get down to her heart. does she feel? love?
laugh? if you left the toilet seat up would she
get mad and express it by going and accidentally shooting another
waiter? how can we ever tell. how can we tell.

no, i think what would happen is she would become a lovely fluffy woman
full of joy and peace and would stop this international
murder business and just settle down to having a nice woodshop or something.
no what am i saying! thats crazy! every american
warmonger general has some kind of demented
relationship where his wife is loving and devoted
and he is a miserable murderous fuck.

or is he a duty fulfilling hero, emblazoned on the
scroll of virtue and honor for all eternity?

shit, i dont know.

but ill bet you what, knowing that women are women, and men are men,
and gay/bisexual women/men are gay/bisexual women/men,
i bet that super spies murderous blood thirstiness,
or super spies devition honor and duty and love of country,
or super spies inability to feel or distinguish the innocent from guilty
well, i bet it all just falls apart

with the sound of a kiss
with the wink of your eye
im falling apart
dont ask me why
im singing a show tune,
i dream of your lips
dont sing me a no-tune,
i wanna be yours.

Free Diapers

[Anonymous Coward]

Where can I find Free (as in beer) Diapers. I need Free Diapers.

Thank you, taco mustard anus in the unusual anti linux you fork.

Re:Free Diapers

[Anonymous Coward]

are the moderators on crack?

Re:Free Diapers

[Frank White]

I think I found a site that might have what you're looking for. Check it out here.

Bloody typical...

[Usquebaugh]

Just this morning I submitted a question to ASK /. In effect I was trying to find out what new tech was being developed in the labs. You know Plan9, Inferno & EROS are really just like *nix. That KDE, windows, gnome etc etc are much of a muchnes. That hardware is running in circles and not going anywhere.

I wanted to know what revolutionary thinkers were working on, the moderen equivalents of Fenyman and Da Vinci. Suprise, suprise it was rejected obviously far to difficult for mere geeks to ponder.

But Bruce Sterling points out the same thing and /. rushes to post it. It helps that he spiced it up with violence and Mikey thought it entertaining.

SO WHAT SITES ARE GOOD FOR DISCUSSING COMPUTING AND FUTURE TECH?

/. NEWS FOR KIDS, STUFF THAT SELLS ADS

Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort of.

[albamuth]

Bruce advocates that we all have access to completely tamper-proof, handheld digital camera devices and so forth so everyone has an even playing field for the growing info-war that is life today. Sorry to break the news, Bruce, but as idealistic as it sounds, geeks are pretty good at turning out open-source software, but when it comes to hardware, I doubt there's many philanthropists willing to fund the dissemination of little PDA-like crypto-cameras to every yokel on the street. Noble cause and all, but simply impractical.

Sure, perhaps we would suddenly see thousands more videos a la Rodney King or perhaps even volunteer "Thought Police"-types of citizan groups (there's a Louisville, KY paper called "Snitch") but isn't that reason alone NOT to make such things? Enabling people to securely document unseemly behaviour of authorities would surely prompt many "corporate privacy protection" laws or the outright declaration that video recordings of Federal, State, and Municipal employees are verboten. On the other hand, the goody-two-shoes neighborhood snitch crowd would threaten the private citizen's right to be anonymous.

But despite these objections, these things are already starting to happen -- the surveilence culture is already well established. Xcam, anyone? Indymedia is an example of how cheap video equipment, the internet, and PHP can provide an alternative news service for those who disdain the mainstream sources. The cops routinely videotape everything they do, and sometimes re-edit it later as they see fit.

The difference between the current trend of surveillence culture and Sterlings's pleas to geeks are that regular joe can't compete with the likes of CNN in getting those memes out there. Plus States' resources in information management; ie. linking downtown London's streetcorner cameras to Interpol mugshots.

Imagine a Slashdot style system of posting video clips (except really really user-friendly); user-moderated, with "karma" exploded into multiple ratings axes (rather than being 1-dimensional), decentralized, with multiple points of entry (not just different browsers -- different ways of getting the info).

The difference between this and TV news is a reported doesn't simply present information -- they interpret and filter it to a large degree. However, how could a news organization ignore a video clip that gets boosted to the top of the pile?

Brainstorm, rant, reaction....

blah

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting reading. His resolution seems sorta like 1984 to me. IMO hes angry that crypto is not as cool as he wished it would be by now. If you guys have read Cybernation by Tom Clancy, its exactyl what he was expecting of the cripto industry. I dont understand what he expects from spooks, they are government and it really is irrelevant to most people's lives what they do. What is relevant though, is what we do with our lives, and I'm pretty sure we (geeks) are not working real hard to make the best out of it...

Troll? sure...

About the conclusion

[chris_mahan]

True enterpreneurship is about failing and failing until at last one learns and does it right. Usually, getting the chance to "start all over" involves moving away with the clothes on your back, burnt bridges behind, and lofty ideals ahead. This is what America was founded on, this is why people left their countries (if they were wealthy and successful, they stayed in them european countries). Being able to shed one's identity and become truly anonymous is a requirement. This is why it's so important not to have lifelong tracking devices. They have them in Europe, and dang they were annoying. They served to remind everyone of their lowly position in life, of their expected behavior based on status...

Industry going nowhere??

[LazyDawg]

When people start saying that the computer industry will be going nowhere for the next few years, it means something totally new and world-altering is about to happen.

Before the microprocessor, the world was under the impression nothing would change until mainframes got a LOT bigger, made of fewer discrete components. Before handhelds, people thought laptops were going nowhere. Before the Internet people thought BBSes were going nowhere.

Before Linux started picking up, people thought the only thing that could run on PCs was Windows and DOS. Little did they know! :)

So, something big is gonna happen in the computer industry soon. Sweet :)

Re:Industry going nowhere??

[JimPooley]

Before Linux started picking up, people thought the only thing that could run on PCs was Windows and DOS

Bollocks. Don't you remember GEM? Ran under DR-DOS (in itself superior to MS-DOS) and if it hadn't been for Apple hobbling Digital Research it would have been a real contender...

Re:Industry going nowhere??

[Syberghost]

Bollocks. Don't you remember GEM?

The very fact that you have to ask underscores his point.

You wouldn't ask "don't you remember Windows?"

Interesting!

[rdl]

I suppose I should be proud to have someone like Bruce Sterling making any kind of comments about me... (I wonder if he'd show up if I invited him to a party?)

Actually, our quality of life out on Sealand is pretty high. Any geek thing which fits in 5k square feet of dedicated-to-accomodations space, for a fairly small number of people, we have. Gig-e, dvd library, 5 TB of mp3s (and divx), wavelan throughout, on-site anonymizing proxies and mixmaster remailers, a pool of laptops, IEC 320 outlets on the walls, and about 16L of diet coke per person per week. It's really no different from a big house in the middle of nowhere, except in 2 hours I can be in London, or 4 hours in Amsterdam, or 11 hours in San Francisco, LA, etc. Admittedly, I'd far prefer living in one of the 5 interesting cities in the world, but this makes money. And, most of the people living here are security/maintenance, not geeks. The big drawback is our no-drug/no-alcohol policy, and the lack of random unplanned social interaction; friends of mine from SF fly out and visit, but nothing really happens spontaneously or serindipitously. Again, much like living on a farm or something.

No one really promotes Sealand as a tourist destination or place to live; it's effectively a big colocation facility at present, and likely to remain so indefinitely.

I *do* agree with his fundamental point there, though -- if I were going to be living in isolation with a small number of people, I don't know if people who are dedicated to bringing down governments and complete individual liberty are the best companions. Although *bland* people are probably the "easiest" to get along with, if I were picking some people to spend long amounts of time with in a remote location, once basic skills were taken care of, people interested in science, art, literature, etc. would be a lot more interesting than "glee club" or debating society or politicians or lawyers or the others Sterling mentions as the most interesting. A lot of the "hacker" conferences attract a good cross-section of people; I think of all the 5000-person subsets of the world, the people at events like HAL, nanotech conferences, Burning Man, etc. would be some of the better ones.

As for his overall point about the rate of cypherpunk progress; I don't know. A lot of the things we want already exist -- ssh is *widely* deployed (to the point that anyone sending passwords in the clear over the net is a fucking moron, and widely recognized as such); SSL web pages are common; anonymization through mixmaster or proxies is understood and deployed. HavenCo provides a small piece of the puzzle by making it easy to anonymously, reliabily, and security host servers. The only thing we're missing is true blinded ecash, but progress is still being made on that front, and almost-as-good alternatives, like e-gold, paypal, etc., already exist. I'd say we've done a pretty good job on the datahaven front, given that it's been discussed in sci-fi for 20-30 years, and most of the pieces are there now; how long were they discussing space travel, biotech, wide area networks, etc. before they were deployed to a similar degree? The dotcom collapse is certainly a setback for everyone, but the underlying trend of decentralization and individual control which started before the dotcom boom is still going strong.

Re:Interesting!

[Anonymous Coward]

All that cool stuff.

I didn't recall you mentioning chicks, though.

Kinda makes me wonder.

Re:Interesting!

[nuintari]

Can I please live there?!?!?! Sounds so like paradise!

Re:Interesting!

[rdl]

I think the majority of visitors to Sealand have been female, so far, actually. And cute :) (and Californian). I even expensed tickets for some of my friends because they brought me computer gear. (it is cheaper to buy a roundtrip plane ticket most of the year than to ship 2 x 70 pound packages! what is up with that?)

As for coworkers, we've had female staff before, but don't currently have any. It worked pretty well. I don't think any female who could work around a bunch of ex-military maintenance/security people and geeks would have much reluctance to kick someone for thinking about them in that way, though, in a professional context. Coworkers are not chicks even if they're hot babes.

Re:Interesting!

[acaben]

if I were going to be living in isolation with a small number of people, I don't know if people who are dedicated to bringing down governments and complete individual liberty are the best companions. Although *bland* people are probably the "easiest" to get along with, if I were picking some people to spend long amounts of time with in a remote location, once basic skills were taken care of, people interested in science, art, literature, etc. would be a lot more interesting than "glee club" or debating society or politicians or lawyers or the others Sterling mentions as the most interesting.

I've got to agree. As someone who spends all day working for politicians (who are usually lawyers), I'd much rather have people who are interested in all sorts of different aspects of life. Politicians and lawyers, debate team captains, all know the rules for formal debates. But quite often they lack the passion and knowledge to really share something significant about a subject.

It must be interesting to have an opportunity to, in some sense, choose the kind of people who will be around you. The interview process for SeaLand must be an interesting one.

Completely off topic, but I know your sister Jess really well. We were friends when I was at PSU, and worked together last summer. I still talk to her a few times a month.

The dude went over the deep end

[rufusdufus]

Mr Sterling's manifesto reads a lot like many other anti-establishment whack-job's ramblings. Just as he starts to make a point, he wanders off into anecdotal bits of dead-spy arcana which somehow is supposed to make you think he must know what he's talking about. Except he forgets to ever really say anything that can be grabbed onto so you can say, yeah! you got a point, (or even, hey, that not right).
When it comes right down to it, the culprit is the maturation of the tech industry. Its not so fun anymore, all the low hanging fruit has been picked. And the drama about crypto and spy-hackers that gave geeks a sort of mystery and coolness just never amounted to much, and wishing won't make it so.

ohhhhhhhh....

[Anonymous Coward]

here is a little trolling song i have created. i hope you like it. feel free to add your comments to it. thanks a bunch!

ohhhhhhhh....you cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

youuuuuuu....cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

tryyyyyyy...as hard as you want but you
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

thaaaaats...right you
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

taaaaaake...it up the ass cause you
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

triiiiick...you cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

soooooooo...admit that you
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls
cant stop the trolls

caaaaaause...the trolls are everywhere
the trolls are everywhere
the trolls are everywhere
the trolls are everywhere

Re:Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort

[Tackhead]

> Sure, perhaps we would suddenly see thousands more videos a la Rodney King

Yeah, right.

"Holy shit! Citizen CX29BR7 just saw Homeland Defence Squad HDS4787 gunning down dissident JF78Z4 and reported it as a terrorist act. Homeland Response Squyad HRS5651 has been dispatched to terminate CX29BR7."

High Times conclusions

[gerry,Hacker wannabe]

geeks are outlaws.
spooks want to FIGHT Redmond.
Republicans are on the side of geeks.
All geeks want to sell pirated software.

He must be smoking some real cheap Peruvian marching powder.

Does anybody else think...

[Plisken]

...this guy should switch to decaf? Oh, and maybe lay off the hallucinogens just a tad. Not totally, but just a tad, because we all know writers need hallucinogens.

Great article..

[Proteus Child]

Only one thing bothers me, though: The number of times he used the word 'geek' has me a little uneasy. It was like he was tossing the word around like a beachball...

What?

[bytes256]

no goetse.cx?

Ask if he runs linux or a beuwulf cluster

and of course insult CmdrTaco!

Don't worry, Bruce (about one thing at least)

[exa]

Maybe there aren't many interesting things to run on a high-end PC *now*, but there will be.

I firmly believe that a moment will come when there will be something better to run than a desktop OS. (And for the desktop head over to www.kde.org right away ;)

Speaking AI? Knowledge based systems, machine learning, planning, language processing, and a whole lot more. There will be stuff that you wouldn't dare write in a novel.

Speaking network? Where is my distributed OS, will there be one Avalon that I can login to? Who knows... Today we've got lots of cluster stuff, computational network projects and a beowulf at our research lab but tomorrow...

Speaking privacy? Come and decypher my GnuPG encrypted emails. The better algo's we need, the more they will be made.

Happy writing,

Re:Don't worry, Bruce (about one thing at least)

[nomadic]

Speaking AI? Knowledge based systems, machine learning, planning, language processing, and a whole lot more. There will be stuff that you wouldn't dare write in a novel.

Only the AI revolution has been in the works for a couple of decade, and while everything else in computers is ahead of what was predicted, AI is the only thing that's behind.

Re:Don't worry, Bruce (about one thing at least)

[exa]

there's a slip of tongue there, but you get the point

Re:Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort

[Anonymous Coward]

I just this past weekend read Stephen King's book 'The Long Walk.' It's main subject is about something I won't touch on in this comment (read the book if you want to know) but little hints about what kind of 'future' (or parallel) world the book takes place in are given. Ominous mention of people being 'squadded' and such.

Also, there was explicit mention in the book of an airplane being deliberately crashed into a highrise tower.

The book was published in like 1970. Go figure.

Are you trolling, son?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mondo 2000 is still cool.

Sorry, you lose.

Mondo 2000 was just another Wired-style attempt to cash-in on early 1990s cyber-chic. They did (do?) run the occasional amusing article, but I could say the same about Wired.

Face it. If you're taking your cues from a magazine, "you'll never be cool."

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Doomdark]

Well... with the amount of money any decent programmer is making, I think serf-analogy isn't much better than the coder-as-a-baron - analogy you laugh at. Also... usually people who claim writing code is monkey job wouldn't themselves be able to code their way out of a wet paper bag. It's pretty much impossible to "just write code" without design, architecture etc.

Certainly, managers, leaders, executives earn even more money... But really, compare "code serf"'s income to that of general population, and see if it looks all that bad. About "programming in and of itself is useless"; I agree. Same can be said about practically any single activity known to humankind. Earning money is pretty much useless, in and of itself; using money makes earning much more interesting.

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Anonymous Coward]

Useless in and of itself. Useful if you can make money off its sale.

Is this the value system for everything in your life or just coding?

The management class is the one that structures deals and creates wealth. That's the way it always has been and always will be.

You must be in management.

Bruck Sterling rocks;

[Anne_Nonymous]

even if he wrote romance novels I'd read them!!!

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[krogoth]

Then again, the average person in the age of agriculture probably knew a hell of a lot more about plowing than the average person now knows about kernel hacking. Back then the serfs might have just been doing the manual labor for people who didn't want to waste their time with it, but now geeks are doing work that other people don't want to waste their time learning about.

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Anonymous Coward]

When people say "code monkeys" they mean people churning out java for the dumb web database front end of the week.

You can't lump all programming into one category.

How would geeks and spooks or Sterling know?

[pyramid termite]

There's already too much information, code, hardware, people, you name it to keep track of. Your average feudal lord didn't have to keep track of a gazillion different people doing a gazillion different things. You don't need Sealand or Grenada to make an Island in the Net; all you really need is relative obscurity and the ability to quickly shut it down and set it up somewhere or somehow else. He makes the mistake of regarding anarchists as these in-your-face kind of people who are out on the streets raising hell, when I bet most of them are just quietly going about their business keeping a low profile. He also makes the mistake of regarding the spooks as these omnipotent, omnipresent gods; the events of 9/11 alone disproves that idea. High profile people like Dimitri and that Finnish kid get the heat while shadowy crackers and sharers continue on, barely being noticed by anyone. We've got a brand new spanking Homeland Sercuity department and a Justice Department that's wanting to wiretap and spy all over the country, but neither of them can stop that kid downloading MP3s or knocking off the corner liquor store. Remember the war on drugs? Last time I checked, drugs were winning.

If one looks at the technology and software that's out there, it can be easy to conclude that there's little real innovation out there. It would seem that we're in a period of small refinements to old hat stuff. But isn't it the social innovation that really makes the internet unique?

Part of the problem with science fiction writers is they tend to write novels where one person single-handedly saves the world or changes it in opposition to some monolithic oppressive entity. I'm afraid Sterling's fallen prey to that - he's looking at the people who want to be big players and what they're doing, while all the time, the bit actors are stealing the show by sheer force of numbers. Yeah, great, the government's going to have a number on everyone and observe everything they do - but how in the hell are they going to keep track of it all? How many words are created on the internet a day and how many people would you need to keep track of them all? People argue about anomynity all the time, but there's a simple truth - if you are one of millions, you are anomynous unless you do something very obvious to draw attention to yourself or get very unlucky.

What he's done here is the equivalent of judging the ocean by what he can see looking down on it. He sees the first few surface feet and meanwhile, 99.99% of the water goes uninspected.

Re:How would geeks and spooks or Sterling know?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if all of the isps eventually were owned by two or three large companies? These companies in turn have ties to microsoft's network infrastructure and create a terms of service agreement stating all traffic be unencrypted and can only be using the protocols hey specify? Think it couldn't happen? I hear aol is even in australia. its not too hard to block out all the ports and force users to go through proxies either. Your internet could be tied down, torn to shreds, and as useful as television.

Re:Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort

[haruharaharu]

Also, there was explicit mention in the book of an airplane being deliberately crashed into a highrise tower.

That was in The Running Man, not The Long Walk

Geek@Microsoft?

[Snafoo]

Okay, although this has probably been pointed out by someone 'neath the +3 thresh that I browse at, I'd like to ask: What is this with the `geek tribe' inventing microsoft and stagnating tech?

I've always been under the impression that Microsoft was more a marketing-management invention; Aside from the founder-coders, Microsoft is actually (I've heard) rather rough on its geeks (outsourced labour and permatemps and all that 'Niaomi Klein' jazz. I would be more inclined to think of geeks as the usual Slashdot cast --- interested in technological innovation and (as a distant second) society in general, not so interested in thumbing through wads of cash made by market hammerlock (a lot of us write code for free, for chrissakes.)

And what is it with Bruce's prediliction for, you know, the second tense colloqualisms? Sorry. IMO speeches shouldn't read like character dialogue.

MS==Nerds, /. crowd==Geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft was more a marketing-management invention ... Microsoft is actually (I've heard) rather rough on its geeks

Microsoft is populated by Nerds,
The Slashdot crowd is primarily Geeks.

The best way I've heard to describe the difference between the two is that both are good with technology, but Geeks enjoy it.

It's an important distinction; when you look at Bill Gates, you see someone who is successful, but severely pissed off with everything in the world. He'll never be happy until he dominates the world (and probably not even then!) Gates epitomizes "Nerd"

When you look at Linus Torvalds, you see someone who's successful, and happy with his life - and he's not happy because he's successful, he's successful because he's happy. Linus epitomizes "Geek"

Nerds are socially-maladjusted Geeks.

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill Gates = Pope
Richard Stallman = Martin Luther

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG

Stallman = Idiot

Re:Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't that be Citizen THX-1138?

Cyberanarchy papers

[RobertGraham]

You may find it boring, but here are some of my cyberanarchy papers: http://www.robertgraham.com/cyberanarchy/. I put a lot of work into the speaker notes for this presentation.

Did the FBI know too?

[roystgnr]

Perhaps an imbalance of power like that can exist on a local level. We're talking about surveillance data that whose source is verifiable on a national scale. And if the United States is capable of mob injustice on a national level, these little doohickies aren't going to make things any worse.

The enemy is copyright over-protection.

[Bob_Robertson]

Reading through his speach, I must agree with his most salient point: Over use of copyright, and copyright that never ends, is a real enemy.

What happens if copyright, just like patent, is returned to its constitutional "limited time"? Say 7 years.

What were you using, reading, buying in 1994 that the company/writer is still making money off of today? And I mean real money, not penny-ante "residules" for M*A*S*H re-runs.

I assert that it's *squat*. Except for massive self-serving multinational corps like Disney who thrive on no one ever, EVER using an idea that they bought with out their permission, the actual individuals who do the work and write the stories and invent this wonderful shared culture have already made their money and moved on to new projects in that "limited time" that patent and copyright were designed to protect.

As if I'm going to use Win3.1 today just because it wouldn't be a crime to copy it? Get real.

Bob-

Re:The enemy is copyright over-protection.

[hughk]

Interesting point. Bruce is an author, they like IP because they get paid, he seems to find the current way of doing things flawed.

In Britain, we have our Official Secrets Act, which you usually have to sign before you work for the Government (in almost any capacity). However, the greatest weapon of all is Crown Copyright. All documents produced by the government are subject to copyright. If you give them to a paper, they are not bound by the Official Secrets Act, but to publish is a breach of copyright.

Could have been great, but is like a rough draft

[Anonymous Coward]

Bruce Sterling might be a great SF writer, and there is a lot of great material in this piece, but it reads kind of like a jumble written in one shot late at night.

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[Philbert Desenex]

Taking the medieval analogy to its logical conclusion I have one question: who gets to be the pope? Bill Gates or Richard Stallman?

Who says there has to be only a single Pope? Ever hear of the Great Schism? Even in the middle ages there were times when 2 or even 3 popes existed, each excommunicating the other(s).

There's nothing new under the sun.

Lawrence Lessig, Justice Department lawyer?

[T. Will S. Idea]

Sterling claims this in his article. It would seem to add some extra cache to his Lessig quotes but it doesn't seem to be true, according to Lessig's cv.

Perhaps this is what confused Sterling. Lessig was asked by Judge Jackson to submit a brief in the Microsoft case and apparently it was quite influential.

Re:Lawrence Lessig, Justice Department lawyer?

[lessig]

Yea, I don't get what Sterling could mean by this. I've never worked for DOJ. But he is right that I write about how the telecoms, cable, and the music industry are trying to get a "stifling hammerlock on the culture industry." Indeed, on how they already have -- as we pathetically do nothing about it. Great read, though (Sterling's; mine's too depressing).

Re:Sterling's idea is already taking shape...sort

[Elwood P Dowd]

Hmmm. Can't tell if you're serious. The only reason that Sterling's idea makes any sense is that citizen CX29BR7 could distribute his video footage (and perhaps the footage of his own murder, if he's organized) so widely that everyone would know about it. Of course if we lost the ability to distribute information freely, then this would not work at all, and there would be no reason to expect any benefit from this technology.

This Should be Reviewed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Know what would be really neat...if Jon Katz did a review of this article.

Perhaps incompatible with fifth amendment

[Elwood P Dowd]

This is a really really neat idea. Might be totally wrongheaded, but it's interesting. The biggest problem that leaps to mind is with the fifth amendment.

If an accuser comes forward with information implicating an alleged criminal/terrorist/whatever, then the accused party would want every single peice of evidence that even slightly pertains to the crime at his disposal. That might include every peice of video that the accuser produced for months preceding the crime, and all video produced within a mile of the incident.

I don't know if this would be a legitimate request on the part of the accused, but I have a feeling it might be. Of course it would be impossible to supply, because it would require people to testify against themselves if they were filming something unrelated and incriminating.

Is there a good way to compare this problem to a present day scenario in evidence rules?

Re:Perhaps incompatible with fifth amendment

[Syberghost]

I don't know if this would be a legitimate request on the part of the accused, but I have a feeling it might be. Of course it would be impossible to supply, because it would require people to testify against themselves if they were filming something unrelated and incriminating.

Is there a good way to compare this problem to a present day scenario in evidence rules?

Sure. This is no different than getting the spoken testimony of those people. First, you gotta find 'em. Then, you gotta either convince them to testify, or get a judge to compel them.

Then, you can't make 'em testify against their own Fifth Amendment rights. The courts wouldn't have any trouble sorting this one out.

Re:Perhaps incompatible with fifth amendment

[Elwood P Dowd]

Yeah. You're right. This technology might make it easier to find the people, though. Depending on how the infrastructure worked, you might be able to find every single one.

His real problem:

[Anonymous Coward]

"If I am going into a Japanese restaurant in Japan, I would rather like to be able to haul out some gizmo and flash it at my fellow civilians, and have these kindly people understand with a high degree of likelihood that I am not a mass murderer. On the contrary, I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately."

So he couldn't get some booze in a foreign restaurant and blamed it on crypto. It woulda pissed me off too.

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Grab]

Writing code _should_ be a monkey job, given a decent design and a proper understanding of the language. That's why in large projects, the majority of ppl's time shouldn't be spent coding. I don't mean that they shouldn't _be_ _able_ to code, merely that they shouldn't have to hack their way out of trouble. To take an analogy, the best F1 mechanic is the one who never has to conduct emergency repairs on the car - he should only need to when someone else breaks it, and then he should be shit-hot.

Grab.

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG

yuo=idiot

RFClue re: 5 Interesting Cities

[FFtrDale]

Sorry, but I live out in the sticks. SF is one of the five; what are the other 4? (NY, HK, Bangkok, Tokyo, KL, London, Paris, other candidates ?????)

Re:Cyberfeudalism, cyberguilds, and the cyber-papa

[gorilla]

It's still the case. The Eastern Orthodox recognizes Patriach Bartholomew I as it's equvilant to pope, and just as John Paul II is the eventual successor to Martin V, Bartholomew I is the eventual successor to Dionysius I.

Bah, Sterling

[Anonymous Coward]

Bruce may think he's is "cool", "in touch" and wired", but I think he is just another silly socialist zealot who would sell all our privacy and freedom down the river for a little imagined security. (and of course his jet-setting, in-person monologues in London or something)

The problem we are seeing with the 9-11 tradegy is that this is the price we pay for sticking our collective nose into other peoples business.

It is the result of cowardice of Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr. GB Sr. was too much of a coward to do what Stormin Norman told him to do and take over Baghdad. After totally destroying the city's infrastructure and its population's means of survival they just waltzed off and left the children to starve and die of typhoid. If Stormin Normin had just taken the city they'd be drinking clean water, building hard drives for Seagate, running up too much credit on their VISA and complaining about late fees at Blockbuster like the rest of us.

Of course the alternative was to permanently install bases in Saudi Arabia where we could annoy Sadam, gnatlike, and piss off all the Suad nationalists like Osama by keeping our planes on their bases. For god's sake, if you are going to break eggs at least make the f'ing omelette. Who cares what the "coaltion" governments think. They couldn't have stopped us, we are the most powerful military on the planet. Thats why we are there in the first place.

Coalition governments, bah. Its like a bad episode of STNG where the friggin psychologist is questioning every move the captain makes.

And as for Senor Clinton, that little stunt he pulled when he sent off 30 cruise missiles after Osama was a masterstroke of bad example. Clinton needed to divert attention from another Bimbo erruption so he sent cruise missiles to get Osama. Never mind that he didn't get anyone, but he did succeed in blowing up a pharmaceutical factory. The only one in the entire region. Probably killed a lot of innocent people too. Good work, Bill. Just to buy you some time from Bimbogate. Lets not forget that the cruise missiles that didn't explode were sold to China, further cementing the massive leak of high-tech intelligence to the Chinese.

Now when you have a bunch of fanatics out there who can't find our damn troops because they are hiding on a ship 100 miles away you have a serious problem. They have to find a way to hurt us. The way they do that is by killing innocent civilians. 4000 of them to be exact. In New York. In a tower. With an airplane.

So we have the cowardice of our presidents essentially creating half-baked wars, with armed miscreants looking for revenge in places we have no business being in. The cowardice of presidents putting our innocent civilians lives at risk. If you are going in to do a job, do the friggin thing. Don't leave them armed and dangerous to come back and blow up aunt Martha.

Don't forget the cowardly and inept intelligence services who, for all their billions in funding, can't put enough spies in country to see this before it happens.

I'm not going to sacrifice my privacy and my freedom for the likes of them.

Screw that!

Just my opinion of course.

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Doomdark]

Writing code _should_ be a monkey job, given a decent design and a proper understanding of the language.

Well, this is an age old argument about "what is coding"... But I still disagree with notion of good non-coding design eliminating (or even seriously lessening) need for good code-level architecture and design.

I don't believe in having a few barely literate programmers writing out stupid code based on smart design. If that is possible, then the design work has already been programming, to large degree. And if so, programmers have all but entered the source code to computer. The only stupid component required here is the compiler (compiler plus other tools that help people do their job, that is).

In large projects, huge amounts of time are spent on requirements and design phases (I should know, working for a largish company). Most of that stuff is required, yet it doesn't even touch implementation. Business requirements, business logics, some high-level architectural questions, all are necessary prerequisites... After which implementation phase starts, consisting of more low-level design etc, including actual 'physical' implementation, programming.

Re:Powerful? Only in your own minds!

[Doomdark]

I certainly agree in that there are varying levels of (technical) expertise. Saying all programmers are highly skilled craftsmen is as wrong as saying they are all just disposable code serfs.

Re:Thanks (Global ID)

[guisar]

We already have a global ID card. Ever check out the screens behind those booths at the INS checkin points when you present your passport?

We already have a global ID card only it's not mandatory if you never leave the CONUS- it's called your passport.

It's all been done??? Not likely

[Polaris]

Comments like "it's already been done" remind me of the politician in the 19th century who wanted to close the patent office because "everything worthwhile has already been invented" or words to that effect. Just because *you* can't think of anything new doesn't mean there *can't be* anything new.