Posted by
timothy
on from the they-bought-all-the-blue-leds dept.
msolnik writes: "The U.S. version of Playstation 2 Linux is getting ready to hit the streets. Here is an review of the first public beta. It really looks sweet and comes with a lot of nice hardware. I can't wait for it to start selling -- finally I will have a legit reason to buy a PS2."
Crippled or no?
by
autopr0n
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Re:One question... why?
by
dark_panda
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The system is going to need some kind of OS when it comes time for Sony to launch their Internet platform for it. Why not use something that's already available with tons of applications rather than re-writing everything? When it comes time for people to connect to the Internet through their PS2 (which Sony has always envisioned as an all-on-one-DVD/games/networkable box), they're already going to have good browsers, mail programes, office suites, hell, even ftp and web servers.
No use recreating the wheel. It's not just cool, it's somewhat practical for them.
J
Only in the beginning
by
autopr0n
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
It almost makes me ill to read something like this...."Finally I have a legit reason to buy a PS2"...how about those of us that realize there are actually...games to play on the console? Not to mention the fact that it/is/ a console. Will I have a legit reason to buy a leafblower when someone finds a way to put Linux on it? I mean, come on. I run my domain on Linux boxes, and I play games on my PS2...imagine that. I'm sure this will end up being 'flamebait', but most of you need to get a grip on this stuff.
OpenGL?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
A lot of people are slavering at the possibility of porting a bunch of Linux games onto the PS-2, perhaps getting a cheaper/better Quake for PS-2 that way.
However, we need to be realistic about this. None of those things are possible until/unless there is a good hardware-accellerated OpenGL port for the beast.
As far as I can tell, there isn't such a thing in existance - and whilst we can certainly port Mesa onto it, we won't get hardware accelleration and it'll run S-L-O-W.
Even with a good OpenGL port, you still wouldn't see stellar performance because the PS-2's 3D processor isn't optimised for running OpenGL - it takes a lot of wierd programming tricks to get speed out of the PS-2 and without free access to the hardware details, there is little or no chance of getting good 3D games running on it.
Of course, all of this changes if Sony announce an OpenGL implementation or release the hardware details - but I'm not holding my breath.
I will wait till more information is available
by
Da+J+Rob
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
OK, so you put in the Linux boot disk... then what happens? Does LILO boot the linux kernel that you have stored on the PS2 hardrive? Or does it boot a kernel that resides on the CD.... my guess is one on the CD. Now Playstation 2's will not play any type of burned media.... CD or DVD. (Unless you mod your playstation2 and get a GameShark boot disk). So what happens when I want to patch the kernel? Or edit my startup scripts? Or just flat change my distro? I'm sure Suse or Redhat will have something before too long....
Also if the kernel is on the boot CD, I just cant eject that CD and put in a MP3/DivX/DVD disk in it either.... meaning I'm going to have to pull any content that I want from those types of media from another source on my network. Granted... there is a certain amount of geekish pride in rigging it this way, but its definitely not conveinent. Who (outside of slashdot readers) has ethernet strung to thier entertainment centers?
- J Rob
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
dasunt
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Those who don't know their video game legal history are doomed to make stupid comments about it, it seems. In the US, its legal to reverse engineer booting protocols for game consoles, even up to, and including the point, of the console displaying "Licensed Playstation Game", or anything to that effect, as long as it isn't shown that there is a way to make a bootable cartredge/CD that doesn't display that message. I believe the case that determined this was one of the Nintendo-era consoles, the SMS or Genesis, maybe (been a long time since I looked at the cases).
Reverse engineering a console can save a company millions of dollars in licensing fees. There have been several notable legal battles that have determined how far a company can go to make compatible games.
A CD doesn't hide its data well. Even assuming encryption on most of the CD, its probably a relatively simple task to tell where the PS2 is reading from the CD at boot. Moreso, for the information on the CD to be useful, it has to be decrypted somewhere in the PS2 itself. Its very crackable.
Slashdot Mirror
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The system is going to need some kind of OS when it comes time for Sony to launch their Internet platform for it. Why not use something that's already available with tons of applications rather than re-writing everything? When it comes time for people to connect to the Internet through their PS2 (which Sony has always envisioned as an all-on-one-DVD/games/networkable box), they're already going to have good browsers, mail programes, office suites, hell, even ftp and web servers.
No use recreating the wheel. It's not just cool, it's somewhat practical for them.
J
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It almost makes me ill to read something like this...."Finally I have a legit reason to buy a PS2"...how about those of us that realize there are actually...games to play on the console? Not to mention the fact that it /is/ a console. Will I have a legit reason to buy a leafblower when someone finds a way to put Linux on it? I mean, come on. I run my domain on Linux boxes, and I play games on my PS2...imagine that. I'm sure this will end up being 'flamebait', but most of you need to get a grip on this stuff.
A lot of people are slavering at the possibility of porting a bunch of Linux games onto the PS-2, perhaps getting a cheaper/better Quake for PS-2 that way.
However, we need to be realistic about this. None of those things are possible until/unless there is a good hardware-accellerated OpenGL port for the beast.
As far as I can tell, there isn't such a thing in existance - and whilst we can certainly port Mesa onto it, we won't get hardware accelleration and it'll run S-L-O-W.
Even with a good OpenGL port, you still wouldn't see stellar performance because the PS-2's 3D processor isn't optimised for running OpenGL - it takes a lot of wierd programming tricks to get speed out of the PS-2 and without free access to the hardware details, there is little or no chance of getting good 3D games running on it.
Of course, all of this changes if Sony announce an OpenGL implementation or release the hardware details - but I'm not holding my breath.
OK, so you put in the Linux boot disk... then what happens? Does LILO boot the linux kernel that you have stored on the PS2 hardrive? Or does it boot a kernel that resides on the CD.... my guess is one on the CD. Now Playstation 2's will not play any type of burned media.... CD or DVD. (Unless you mod your playstation2 and get a GameShark boot disk). So what happens when I want to patch the kernel? Or edit my startup scripts? Or just flat change my distro? I'm sure Suse or Redhat will have something before too long....
Also if the kernel is on the boot CD, I just cant eject that CD and put in a MP3/DivX/DVD disk in it either.... meaning I'm going to have to pull any content that I want from those types of media from another source on my network. Granted... there is a certain amount of geekish pride in rigging it this way, but its definitely not conveinent. Who (outside of slashdot readers) has ethernet strung to thier entertainment centers?
- J Rob
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Those who don't know their video game legal history are doomed to make stupid comments about it, it seems. In the US, its legal to reverse engineer booting protocols for game consoles, even up to, and including the point, of the console displaying "Licensed Playstation Game", or anything to that effect, as long as it isn't shown that there is a way to make a bootable cartredge/CD that doesn't display that message. I believe the case that determined this was one of the Nintendo-era consoles, the SMS or Genesis, maybe (been a long time since I looked at the cases).
Reverse engineering a console can save a company millions of dollars in licensing fees. There have been several notable legal battles that have determined how far a company can go to make compatible games.
A CD doesn't hide its data well. Even assuming encryption on most of the CD, its probably a relatively simple task to tell where the PS2 is reading from the CD at boot. Moreso, for the information on the CD to be useful, it has to be decrypted somewhere in the PS2 itself. Its very crackable.
Just my (educated) $.02