2nd Space Tourist To Visit ISS In April 2002

Anonymous Coward writes "Another continent is represented in space: It has just been announced that Thawte founder Mark Shuttleworth is in the final stages of securing a seat on the next Soyuz launch in April. Press Release says he plans to do a lot of Science up there, with a whole bundle of other stuff. SpaceDaily seems to have broken it first of the commercial news, haven't seen it anywhere else yet. Go, Africa, Go! (Oh, and he reads Slashdot religiously ... Good Luck Mark!)" Looks like it's getting cheaper, too. I think it's time for a Slashdot staff meeting in space...

Comments

Why is this news?

[Safety Cap]

Isn't the eventual goal to have "average Joes" go to space?
Yes, I'm envious, but until the cost comes down to maybe the price of a luxury cruise, then I could care less.

Re:Why is this news?

[freeweed]

Why? Well, seeing as this is only the second civilian/paying customer/whatever to go into space in the history of human space exploration, I'd say it's pretty important.

Isn't the eventual goal to have "average Joes" go to space?

Yes, and considering NO average Joes will go until a LOT of rich folks do (think cars, airplanes, etc, etc, etc)... I'd say it is NOT going to happen overnight.

Re:Why is this news?

[jbailey999]

This is how the supply and demand curve starts, though. These initial folks are doing a few important things:

1) Proving that the service is worth providing, and that people want it.

2) Forcing the ISS folks to start making the station safer for "average folk".

3) Providing funding.

I think the next step is that space agencies will start to see these ``tourists'' as sources of revenue. So then you start to see the ads show up in the Robb Report.

After that, commercial enterprises will be able to demonstrate a market and secure the funding they need to do it themselves, and cheaper, and then leave the poor scientists alone.

Effectively, the count down to watching an earth-rise from the moon has begun. =)

Re:Why is this news?

[armb]

> "Do politicians count as paying customers?" Four have been flown. All four were major supporters of NASA.

How much of their own money were they supporting it with? (I think spending taxpayers' money on space is a good thing (within limits), and having politicians as representatives of the taxpayers getting rides to see it being spent isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think they are in the same class as "paying customers" paying with their own money).

Wait for this to be verified, then...

[twilight30]

see if he'll agree to a Slashdot interview.

But wait first.

Re:Wait for this to be verified, then...

[reg]

If you can't wait, then here's a recent online chat with him, from a South African TV show.

Regards,
-Jeremy

Slashdot meeting in space?

[Exmet Paff Daxx]

What would the Slashdot team do in Space that they couldn't do here on earth?

Learn to spell?

Re:Slashdot meeting in space?

[Anonymous Coward]

Weigh less, perhaps?

Re:Slashdot meeting in space?

[inburito]

It's been tried.. not very easy.. Might be okay if you like lots of straps, though.

Uhh

[Cave Dweller]

Must...resist...temptation...
Shuttle...worth...ugh.

Re:Go Africa Go?

[stefanlasiewski]

Thawte is based in South Africa (or was, before VeriSign bought Thawte), but it still seems like a wierd thing to post.

Through Haggling, Space

[patiwat]

Shuttleworth had to go through a lot of haggling to get into space. For one, he had to cut back on his original plan of staying two weeks to only ten days. There were also difficulties in resolving what would happen if Soyuz failed to dock with the ISS - would he get a free repeat flight or not? In addition, Shuttleworth insists on being the first African in space - however, South Africa isn't part of the ISS consortium.

The difficulties appear to have been resolved though, and through the magnificent power of over $20 million, a just about anyone can get into space.

But please, don't by claim that now we have "geeks in space" - the original Gemini, Mercury, and Apollo astronauts were the original ueber-geeks, and their hacks saved many missions from failure.

Re:Through Haggling, Space

[Siener]

The difficulties appear to have been resolved though, and through the magnificent power of over $20 million, a just about anyone can get into space.

True, almost. To avoid the problems that Dennis Tito had with NASA (he's a safety risk because of lack of training etc.), Mark went through a much more rigorous and thorough training program. It has been reported that he could in fact be considered as a fully trained cosmonaut.

Also, this will not be a purely recreational trip. He's hoping to make the trip pay for itself by conducting some experiments in space that could later have some commercial value.

There also seems to be some confusion here at /. about the "Go, Africa go" bit in the post. Mark Shuttleworth is a South African. So am I, so : "Go, Mark go"

i propose to do some "science"

[trance9]

I volunteer to go up into space and conduct a scientific experiment to determine whether a 2 week vacation in space increases or decreases the productivity of an opensource programmer upon return to earth.

The favoritism runs rampant

[dfeldman]

Space, like so many other industries and programs throughout the years, has seen tremendous advances in technology, accomplishments, and workforce skill. It is often speculated that eventually many people will live for years, or forever, on other planets or in human-friendly space stations. This helps ease overcrowding of Earth, and helps people experience new living environments.

However, it seems as though most nations' space programs don't feel the same way about that egalitarian vision. They don't think space is the final frontier for everyday citizens; they don't want space travel to become commoditized. NASA, and now the Russian space agency, want to use space as a perk to sell to very wealthy businessmen. They want money, influence with politicians, or both. Regardless, these agencies are using taxpayer money to pamper the rich, and it is high time to stop this abuse.

Mind you, I am not against rich people. My brother has a net worth of over three million dollars. I am simply against letting the government use its considerable power to reward those who have already been rewarded by the capitalist system. Why reward people twice for the same deed? I don't win an award or see the government kissing my behind every time I collect a paycheck. Why should really rich guys be any different?

Astronauts are hired because of their physical strength and courage, their technical abilities, and their personalities. They should not be selected on the basis of their bank account balances. We should work toward letting astronauts do their jobs, without interference from wealthy joy-riders who feel like they have to ride into space before they die, just because they can.

df

Re:The favoritism runs rampant

[Omnifarious]

Indulging a few rich people their fancy is the ticket for travel to space to become affordable. We don't try to get people into space much now because no profit can be made doing it. If a profit can be made doing it, there will be strong financial incentive to do it more and more cheaply, and eventually it probably won't cost too much more than a transcontinental airline flight.

That's the logic that's driven the semiconductor revolution to incredible advances in speed and minaturization. Mark up your advanced products, and sell them to rich people who want them, use the money to design the next batch to be better and cheaper.

Re:The favoritism runs rampant

[LMCBoy]

I mostly agree. I don't object to rich guys shelling out the dough for orbital joyrides (because, as others have pointed out, this should eventually drive costs down, and maybe someday I'll be a not-rich guy on an orbital joyride).

However, I think that if NASA is the one doing it, such commercialization would be a Bad Thing. Instead, it should be handled by private "space tourism" companies.

Re:The favoritism runs rampant

[Yet Another Smith]

I am simply against letting the government use its considerable power to reward those who have already been rewarded by the capitalist system.

I am also against governments rewarding anyone who has not done something to earn that reward. However, you have not made the case that this guy is being rewarded in any real way. Every indication is that these guys are paying a fair sum for the extra costs of sending them up with a mission that's going up anyway. The extra costs associated with their presence is offset not by government favoritism, but by the money that these guys actually pay. That's not immoral in the slightest, unless you feel that anyone who pays for something that most cannot afford is immoral, in which case, I guarantee that your millionaire brother should have his Lexus confiscated forthwith, and probably your Jetta, too.

Now, if you don't believe that these guys have paid enough money to cover the expenses they incur, that's a different story, but has nothing to do with the capitalist system. Capitalism is all about charging enough to cover your own expenses, so if governments don't do it, then they should be showered with derision.

As for government not kissing your butt for getting a paycheck, well, actually they do. You can go to a national park any time you want. Poor people rarely do, but the middle class partake often. Do you like space? Have you ever been to the Air and Space museum? I have. Its cool. Its government funded. Do you think that the government would have funded it if only the unemployed were interested? Hell no.

they don't want space travel to become commoditized.

The simple fact of only allowing people who spend big bucks be early adopters of space tourism technology is hardly evidence that they are attempting to exclude the poor from space. Early cars were only affordable to the rich. They were impractical toys. But now if you post a flyer at any college campus you can find somebody getting rid of their car for under a thousand bucks.

This helps ease overcrowding of Earth, and helps people experience new living environments.

Unfortunately, space will never be a viable solution to overcrowding. Certainly not within the next few centuries. The number of people removed from the population will be a drop removed from the ocean compared to the population of the earth. The only folks for whom it might relieve overcrowding would be those who actually left. The ones remaining would not be any better off.

BTW, Moding this guy's post as flaimbait veers toward the ri-damn-diculous. It might be poorly argued, it might be a crazy liberal or crazy libertarian screed. But while there are undoubtedly jackasses out there who'll flaim it (and this response) this is more reasoned and less flaimworthy than your average Katz article. Lighten up.

Re:The favoritism runs rampant

[Yet Another Smith]

Hmm, good point. I'm curious to take this reasoning a step further. Is it possible that NASA might actually one day stifle space use, by perpetuating a government monopoly and effectively driving out private firms that might one day provide cheaper space flight for the unwashed?

Where would the computer industry be if the government had decided to regulate computer use through a single agency? If there had been a "NCA" that was in charge of providing computing power to those who needed it, would that have prevented the private computer industry from forming? I mean, since all the computer engineering know-how would have been under government control, then any private venture that was trying to build computers would have inferior products at high prices when they started up, while the government agency would be covering its development costs with taxpayer money.

What I'm getting at, is if we shouldn't have the government in the rich-guys-in-space business, should we have them in the rich-corporations-putting-satelites-in-space business? Would a ban on ESA and NASA launches of private satelites spur private space development? Certainly if the NASA and ESA stopped, it wouldn't reduce the demand for orbital insertions. Everybody and his brother wants to put things in orbit. Get Arien and NASA out of the loop, and private corporations would step into the void.

Right now, the private companies that are developing things like SSTO (Single Stage to Orbit) and similar technologies are not getting much capital funding because, why develop a cow when the government gives you milk for free?

I've heard a great deal of talk about NASA supporting itself with private space launches, but should we be thinking the other way around?

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Of course, a counter-example is the air-passenger service industry. This actually formed from government contracted air-mail carriers adding rich, high-paying passengers to their mail flights. If we'd said, "No you can't do that, because its a waste of taxpayer funds" where would the airline industry be today? I'd certainly have to drive 1000 miles to see my family at christmas, which would suck.

Re:The favoritism runs rampant

[Maeryk]

I've heard a great deal of talk about NASA supporting itself with private space launches, but should we be thinking the other way around?

NASA could be self supporting next week, if the US.GOV would stop glomming all the developments that NASA comes up with and not paying them back for it.

The list of things invented for the SPace Program that have become public domain is immense.. there used to be an entire magazine dedicated to it called "spinoff". However, NASA, and their affiliated agencies, make no money off these inventions once they are released from "top secret" status.

Just think.. one penny from the sale of anything that has Teflon on it would do quite a bit of good for NASA. How bout all those anti-fog window treatments? NASA developed the specific technology that makes them work. The list goes on and on..

Lets stop NASA from being a boondoggle by allowing it to make some money, and maybe we can stop shooting worn out space-planes up to the ISS, and maybe we can afford to build it right the first time.. without having to rely on Russian and ROC to handle components that come in late, grossly overbudget, and flawed.

Lets start putting 1/3 of the money into NASA that we put into the development of a new gun for to kill people with.

Alas, it will never happen, because so many people think A) the whole thing is fake, or B) we have no reason to be in Space, or C) there is no point to studying space, because no good can come of it.

(ALL WRONG, imho)

Maeryk

Dont let Katz go

[MisterBlister]

If you do shuttle up the slashdot folk, don't let Katz go. The last thing I need to hear is him whining about the corporatization of space, or how the 'jock' astronauts bully the poor geek space tourists, or how difficult is is to find a TV station airing buffy the vampire slayer up there.

Re:Dont let Katz go

[Moonshadow]

Actually, I was going to suggest that he be the only one to go.

Just with a one-way ticket.

Re:Dont let Katz go

[freeweed]

Don't forget, he could also write ~7K or so about how all of the cool software up there was windows based, so he couldn't use it on the machines he plays windows-only games on.

Re:Dont let Katz go

[Zocalo]

I thought the ISS was using Linux on a collection of three IBM Thinkpads. Or is my memory faulty? This page would suggest not however, and IIRC the ESA uses Linux as well.

I'm just not in the know...

[On Lawn]

First I find that everyone just knows "I had a candle light dinner with Ashley Judd on Film" Wil Wheton is a reader. Now some Anonymous Coward knows a millionaire in the news for being the next space tourist religiously reads slashdot.

I must be on the B list. No, make that the R list.

Re:I'm just not in the know...

[brshuttleworth]

Or, alternatively, you haven't read some interviews with him :) from a web-chat he had after a Carte Blanche interview:

Mark Shuttleworth: Of course! The Net is still on course to become the fundamental platform for all communications... from your cellphone to your fridge, they will all talk TCP/IP. But the net makes competition brutal, so expect to work hard for those profits. The mistake was in thinking that something that removed all barriers to entry could also be a source of infinite profitability! I don't think we'll see any new Yahoo! or E-Bay emerge, but we'll see great new ideas like slashdot.org that find a place for themselves, driven by people who love what they are doing and do it better than anybody else as a result, using the net to reach their listeners at the lowest possible cost.

Re:Go Africa Go?

[nihilogos]

Thawte is a south african company. Mark is thus a representative of the continent of Africa, and probably the first person from said continent to go into space.

Re:Go Africa Go?

[brshuttleworth]

So lets see: after the US does anything, 500 posts say "America is amazing". One cool thing happens in Africa, someone says "Go, Africa, Go!", and people say "how wierd is that".

Hmmm. I think its pretty reasonable for someone to be patriotic, don't you?

Re:This isn't about making space profitable.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes

And the PR is great. This guy is quite obviously doing something a huge number of people want to do, and he's doing something useful whilst he's there. Which is of course irrelevant, but true. Now the point is that he's not an idiot; he's likely to have a slant on what he sees there which is both different to the average selected astronaut, and useful. Clearly he's good at making money.

I don't see the problem, unless it's that certain Slashdotters just can't keep their elitism down. Personally, I'd like to congratulate this guy, and eventually do just what he's doing now.

Re:Go Africa Go?

[heliocentric]

I think its pretty reasonable for someone to be patriotic, don't you?

patriot - one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.

Last time I checked, Africa was not a country, it was more of a continent on which several contries have set up shop.

control

[heliocentric]

I volunteer to go up into space and conduct a scientific experiment to determine whether a 2 week vacation in space increases or decreases the productivity of an opensource programmer upon return to earth.

To make that more towards the realm of science, you'd need a control person or group. Depending on what you're testing, lack of human interaction, some sort of weightlessness impacting code openness, typing speed, who knows... you'd want your control group to experience something similar only without that which you are testing. So, if you're going of the weighlessness impacts coding, you'd need to lock some people up in a small place, limit their diet to things rehydrated, limit their interaction with outsiders.... oh wait, that sounds like most coders lives I know... drat.

Re:control

[linzeal]

We should send up a few M$ employees to store in the airlock.

Re:This isn't about making space profitable.

[Supa Mentat]

First a disclaimer, I am an American, not a Russian, these are just the facts as I have come to know them. First off, Russia spent a shitload of money on ISS, not as much as us but it was a significant contributor, I think second overall as far as money spent goes. Secondly, if it hadn't been for the knowhow that the Russians acquired with Mir ISS wouldn't have gotten off of the ground, their biggest contribution by far was the technical knowledge and experiance they brought to the table. Back to money though. What money Russia did spend it really didn't have, the Russian government is in economic straits and space gains them nothing in the short term. So they figured out a way to recoup some of their losses, Tito. He never even touched the American side of the station so Americans (including me) have no right to bitch about it. The Russians have gotten plenty of science done in space, more than us actually because for the longest time we didn't have a station and they had Mir. In conclusion, don't sell the Russians short. Their contributions to the ISS have been substantial and if they need a way to subsidize their part of the station and they can do it than I say more power to them. Neither Americans nor Russians are being kept out of the station because of these extra visitors, so don't worry about it.

hehehe! geeks in space!

[mr_gerbik]

hehehe! geeks in space! hohoho! hahaha! lets say it again and maybe it will be funny this time!

if the slashdot team ever had a meeting in space, i would surely try my best to depressurize their capsule and watch everyone explode.

Re:This isn't about making space profitable.

[reg]

I think you need to look a lot more carefully at Mark Shuttleworth. While his motives aren't altruistic (if I was an unemployed, ex .com'er, and had $575mil in my pocket, I'd also be going into space), he nearly didn't get to go because he insisted on being allowed to conduct scientific experiments, and held a competition in South Africa to find the best experients. NASA's primary complaint is that they didn't want him doing experiements... It was OK if he just sat there and enjoyed the view.

I'd hardly call his trip wasting the precious US investment (which would have been a lot less if the Russians had built it, because they don't squander money like NASA).

Regards,
-Jeremy

Mark In Space

[geltoob]

Since the Mark is going by way of Soyuz, what is a trip on the Shuttleworth?

Re:Rich People and Space

[TGK]

Because the objective of buisness is to maximize profit while minimizing risk. Space is risky, and while it may pay off, it's unlikely to.

Potential Profit x Prob of Profit > Potential Loss x Prob of Loss

That must evaluate to true for a company to realisticly consider doing something (it gets even uglier with present values etc thrown in, so think of it like that).

The result is that capitalism encourages firms to drink cautiously from the river of innovation rather than jumping in. It takes socilized capitalism (much like Japan) to encourage the sink or swim approach.

Looks like a good guy, too...

[Voidhobo]

At least according to Slashdot's values...

In a recent chat-room interview in ZA:

Scurra: Hiya. How does Russian software development differ from the software development that you've done. I mean, do they program in Cyrillic? Are the Russians keen on something like Linux?

Mark Shuttleworth: I think Linux is pretty popular here, which is great. Most programming languages don't change, but obviously they use Unicode and DBCS to present the Cyrillic characters in the UI. They have fantastic programmers here (Dmitry Sklyralov (sp?) is Russian ;-)

No

[autopr0n]

North, south, and central America are collectively called "The Americas" not "America" The only thing called "America" without a north/south/central modifier is the United States Of America.

Re:This isn't about making space profitable.

[Siener]

No money is being wasted here. Mark will go up as a fully trained astronaut. This does not cost any more or less than sending up any other trained person. Please note that Mark went through full cosmonaut training together with normal prospective cosmonauts. The only difference is of course that he paid for his own training..

From the press release :

[He] will be a fully certified member of the Soyuz crew, responsible for some Soyuz systems during the flight

He is by no means just a space tourist like Dennis Tito was.

I have a question...

[Tarkwyn]

What's Mark's Shuttle worth?

Incorrect Story

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the story subitted is incorrect. This will be the third space tourist. The first space tourist was way back in October 29 1998 The second was on 30 April 2001 So this should definately be the thrid right?

Re:Incorrect Story

[WolfWithoutAClause]

John Glenn didn't pay his way; he doesn't count. Otherwise, you could argue Gagarin was the first space tourist.

Re:Incorrect Story

[nathanm]

Actually there were 2 congressmen that were space tourists before Glenn:

Senator Jake Garn on STS-51D

Bill Nelson on STS-61C

This is from some previous /. comments: 1 2 3

He is funding research too..

[axxter]

Shutleworth is funding three research projects around his trips. One of the projects will involve University of Cape Town, Physiologists. The universities monday paper has the story

Research

[HavingToLoginSucks]

I'm really curious about what type of scientific research he intends to pursue while up there. Does anyone know what his scientific interests are? Anyone have any idea what experiments he intends to perform? Anyone gotta link or literature ref (CS research may be online, but the rest of science is laggin a little)? A curious chemist

Interview with Mark Shuttleworth

[Siener]

Here is an interesting interview with Mark Shuttleworth.

A few quotes :

"I realise that I'm not going on a joyride, this is not just a question of getting into space. We are kick-starting an African space programme. It is not good enough to simply take Russian experiments; we must give South African scientists an opportunity."

"Of course there is a personal reward, but at the same time the trip will do a tremendous amount for South Africa in the international arena. Also the money I'm spending on this project is not disappropriate to the money I have already spent on other people and that I gave away."

What Nonsense

[frog51]

America is commonly used to mean USA, but that is mostly due to the fact that the USA is very self-centric. AFAIK USA is the United States Of America, hence the acronym
To the rest of the world America includes Canada, Mexico, Peru, Argentina, Chile etc etc etc etc., because most other countries don't see the USA as all important, more as a large country with a predilection towards violence and aggressive politics.

Making NASA look bad

[SpinyNorman]

Well first the Russians embarass NASA by proving they can make a profit from a $20M passenger while the shuttle costs $500M per trip (10x over budget), and now they're going to embarass them by doing science up their while all we hear about NASA is how smart they were to build table out of junk and duct tape.

Maybe NASA should step aside in the interests of space research, and sell their ISS spot to Russia who it appears can not only pay for it commercially, but also get science done (pretty damn cool that a competition winner is going to get his/her experiment on the ISS!).

Re:Rich People and Space

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Billionaire Andrew Beal of Beal aerospace tried this. NASA squished him flat with their subsidised programs, which they then arranged to fail. NASA doesn't want private space programs, or even their own programs taking money away from their pork barrel programs; or more accurately perhaps, the politicians that pay NASA don't want that.

But don't take my word for it; listen to what Beal said:

Beal Aerospace closes

Re:This isn't about making space profitable.

[Luyseyal]

Well... don't forget about the loud Russian module. You can't get much science done, or at least very well, if you can't hear yourself think.
I'm not saying either program is fundamentally better, merely that they each have their strengths and weaknesses. And yes, the Russian space program is all about flying coach, without which, I'll never get to see the blue earth below me.

Cheers,
-l

'Nonsense' right back a'cha

[Dirk Pitt]

C'mon. I get so tired of these 'America is so self-centric and aggressive' posts that automatically get modded up.

Firstly, the USA is commonly referred to as 'America' because it is, to the best of my knowledge, the only country on these two continents that includes the word 'America' in its title. People would quickly grow tired of calling us "United States of Americans" or "YouEssAyans" instead of just "Amercians". This is the only descriptor I've run across, in my fairly wide travels anyway, for people from these United States. All of the Australians, Brits, Chinese, and Japanese I know refer to the American continents as "The Americas", and would never assume that 'America' includes countries north and south.

Secondly, oh yes, our 'predilection towards violence' and aggression is so unique in the world. The countries of Africa, Asia and Europe are just flower carrying peace lovers compared to America. Every country has their violent little toys, and likes to use them. Just because America can afford the most and the best right now doesn't make them any worse or better than any country of the often parental 1st world on down.

When will everyone be there

[ackthpt]

Yes, and considering NO average Joes will go until a LOT of rich folks do (think cars, airplanes, etc, etc, etc)... I'd say it is NOT going to happen overnight.

And when it does happen, we can look forward to:

The first Domino's Pizza delivery in space, "Hey, the toppings are stuck to the top of the box!"

_Real_ scien-terrific 'spiriments, "Oh, man, he puked and it came straight out!"

Mothers equiped with instant cameras will line everyone up for a group picture over the Grand Canyon.

New anti-gravity sports leagues will be developed.

and inevitably, the below-average Joe's will arrive to make space totally egalitarian...

Rednecks in space -- "Dang! I haid th' gol-dang yard all fixed up with space junk and them nassa varmints are tryin't swipe it again. Maw! Git muh laser arn! Ahm agonna blast 'em."

Civilians in space

[soundlord]

one important thing to note is that if Christa McAuliffe, a civilian teacher, hadn't died aboard Challenger in 1986, the idea of civilians in space probably wouldn't be as big a deal as it is now. More civilians would have likely boarded shuttles during the following years, and gradually the civilian population would have become more comfortable with the idea of having civilians in space. When this happened, the average person would feel that space was within his or her grasp, and the space program would have experienced more interest and increased financial support.

the Russians, perhaps without meaning to, are again getting average people comfortable with the idea of civilians in space, which might not be such a bad thing - they don't have the stigma of the Challenger tragedy to deal with, and their efforts might foster increased interest in space programs here in the States.

Re:Rich People and Space

[TGK]

Damn. And I thought people were idiots for not reading the artical. Not you're not reading the comments you reply to?

I was talking about private ventures in space. I never said that it was unlikely to pay off, I said that the risks involved made it such that the payoff times the probibility of success were not sufficiently greater than the potential loss times the probibilty of failure. That's not all a corporation cares about. If there's an earthside venture which has better odds than the space side ones that's where the money will go.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with NASA. NASA (in case you forgot) is a government operated cost center (as opposed to a profit center). NASA seeks only to keep its costs below its budget. Either by lowering costs (bad) or increasing budget (good).

Re:Hang On ...

[Maeryk]

It`s a great idea to send Mark Shuttleworth into space. While he`s there he can gaze down upon the continent of Africa and ponder why it is that a white South African can waste millions turning himself into a artificial satellite while millions more black South Africans slowly die because they don`t have the money to buy anti AIDS drugs. Nice to know he`s got his priorities right.

SO, when are you giving me a shell acct on your box? Its obvious you have something I dont have, therefore it is my RIGHT to have access to something you own, simply cause I dont got it and you do.

Maeryk

Re:Rich People and Space

[TGK]

Yes and no. I agree that NASA has contributed substantialy to the "space is for scientists" conception, largely to the detriment of the industry as a whole. Nonetheless, I think space tourism is a bit further out of site than you think. Consider the idea of a "space hotel"...

First off, no one goes on vacation to a hotel for the view. You need stuff to do there, so we expand the concept to a space resort. No big deal, just larger facilities, which as you pointed out, doesn't eactly effect rent costs.

That being said there's a plethora of considerations for a space resort. Most importat to them is staff. How many people does it take to run a hotel? You'll need those people at your space resort. Many of those people will have to be permanant staff, that means a HUGE space station. We're talking 11 kilometers across (ring shaped of course) to allow rotation and thus artificial gravity (wouldn't want those bones to deteriorate would we?).

Then there's the matter of providing food. It's not economicly feasable to ship food up there for any sort of serious commercial venture. So blue green alge it is. Now you've got to find ways to make this into something palletable, which isn't that hard (it's really good with Vodka, try some time).

Shielding is a problem too. Most plans include large bands of water storage tanks which ring the damn thing. That's where you grow the algee of course.

Overall my point is that a space based hotel whatever is more expensive precisely because it's not for science. A small facility operated on occasion can be left alone for a lot of the time and it doesn't matter. Supplies needed for habbitation can be transported to the station and consumed. It does not need to be a closed system.

A commercial hotel scheme must be a closed system. Space is energy rich and stuff poor. You need to make sure that no matter leaves the station. You also need to make sure the station is self sufficient. Part of making this profitable is having it ready to go whenever and keeping it running all the time. To do that you need the infrastrucuture to build an 11 kilometer ring spacestation.

That's a hell of a project, no matter who you are.