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Suggestions for Someone Building an Artist's PC?
albamuth asks: "A friend of mine recently handed me $1000 (in the form of her credit card) and asked me to put together the best artist-friendly PC possible. Though I enjoy reading system guide recommendations put out by the likes of Arstechnica and Sharkyextreme,
it seems that most, if not all, of these guides are geared towards gaming purposes. My friend is an artist and was surprised when I approaced with a list of decidedly non-Apple recommendations. I countered that the lousiest new iMac would cost $999 and the reason why "all the other artists" use them is because of brand loyalty. However, now I'm tediously looking through motherboard and monitor reviews for things like Firewire ports and color accuracy, respectively. There's plenty of other things to think about as well: Photoshop vs. GIMP, [slide] scanners, video capture, etc. Though I'm pretty dogmatic on getting an AMD, I would like to hear opinions on hardware/software for a media/arts-oriented box."
And I'm not being a Machead here. It depends on exactly what she needs. Is she upgrading a machine, or is this brand new? If this is brand new, no problem.
If this isn't brand-new - then you have a huge problem. What if she *needs* some Photoshop-only features? GIMP is nice, but it isn't Photoshop, and won't be for a while. (I'm not going to get involved with a flame war over that.)
Does she use a Mac now? In that case, I doubt she'll want to move to a PC. She's an artist, not a computer person - she may have a lot of money invested in Mac-only software. She wouldn't want to take the time to retrain on all sorts of different stuff, not to mention the price.
But if she's never used a computer for art before, or doesn't use it very often, this shouldn't be a problem. But the fact that you said she was surprised by not getting a Mac recommendation makes me think that she uses a Mac already.
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
Sorry for the second post. I also wanted to say that, in many cases, Macs are the best solution for consumer/prosumer-level artists. Apple knows their bread is buttered by the graphics and education markets, and they damn well make sure their machines are perfectly suited for them.
You can get color-matching software as part of most OSes, but it's integrated really well with the Mac. The - really good - FireWire support is also important. Digital cameras are a big deal. One-click DVD burning is a good thing, same with CDs. Free movie-making software and DVD-burning software - also good.
Sure, it's possible to get all this for another OS/platform, but it won't all be from one vendor, and it certainly won't be as well integrated. And iMovie is pretty nice for the (free) price. You might seriously want to consider a Mac - there're reasons other than "brand loyalty" that artists stay with them.
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
Macs
I countered that the lousiest new iMac would cost $999
[True, yes] and the reason why "all the other artists" use them is because of brand loyalty.
No. IANAMOA (Mac-owning artist) but I do know that Macs are still superior graphic-wise. Their CPUs handle that sort of thing a lot better (find out about the vector subsets in the G3s and G4s)... and even if you counter by saying Apple's benchmarks are made using Photoshop because of all the optimisations Photoshop has built in... that's kind of the point.
I admit I don't know a great deal about Macs but there have been several other discussions about Mac vs PC over the past few months (unfortunately I haven't bookmarked any) - try and find them. Go look on graphic websites and do some research about the sort of computers these professionals use - somehow while slashdot is prabablya good place to ask about free software, it's probably not a good place to find out about what software you're going to need.
Consider your friend's requirements in a non-free-software-only light
Somehow I get the idea you don't know a great deal about using / creating graphics on a computer, and that this friend of yours has asked you to buy this computer because you know about computers, not because you know about computers and are also an artist.
Few computer-using artists that I know would not use Photoshop. Many use other programs in addition, of course, but none would ever not use Photoshop. Sound like a blanket statement? Your friend probably has other artist friends that use computers - ask them. Or go look on the net - like I said before, I don't think
What I can say is that the Gimp will probably not do. I like the Gimp and I applaud the efforts of those making it. However, when you get down to the base of things, the Gimp simply doesn't have all the functionality of Photoshop. It is also a lot harder to use. This friend of yours sounds like a newbie as far as computers go: I really don't think that a Linux (or even Windows) computer running the Gimp is going to be suitable. Even running Windows, just the differences in the gui might be off-putting. It's colour support isn't too good either (as in the various ways it represents colour, rgb, cmyk and other, bits per channel... etc). Also (I don't know, but it just occurred to me you should check) does the Gimp have scanner support? From memory, I don't think so.
Other things she might need that might not fit into $1000
Another thing you might not have considered is a scanner or a printer. Is the artist going to distribute her work purely electronically? Will she want to have a photo-quality printer?
And, how is she going to get her hand-done work onto the computer? It sounds like she is an artist who is moving to using a computer, so she has, and probably will, use normal non-electronic methods for the actual drawing. You're going to have to get these onto the computer somehow. You haven't mentioned anything in your post that wasn't about software; but hardware like is also something to consider.
Rethink it...
:) There's nothing wrong with a G3 except that it's old... like a P3 450 in the PC world. Go for a good, reasonably-priced but not cutting-edge computer, that she'll be able to use without being forced to pay for something she can manage without.
/. is the place for finding out what you're going to have to buy. I think you should do some research on art sites and that kind of thing as well. Don't approach this from the perspective that free software will do just as well as commercial. That may be true for other areas like office apps, etc, but it is not true for graphics.
So, investigate Macs. You could get a second-hand mac for less than a new one
I also think that Photoshop is a must. Investigate second-hand copies, or student software (are you a student? Is your friend?)
And don't forget hardware like scanners etc as well. Somehow I think you're going to have a bit of trouble fitting this into $1000... $1500 maybe though.
I don't think
Good luck.
Don't proselytize. Get her an mid to upper range Mac, convince her that she will need to spend more but it is worth it.
If you go with MacOSX you can get her to try other OS's and applications later down the road.
For things like font handling, printing, and media creation *NO* major operating system beats the quality of apple's default tools. There's plenty of third party applications as well, just ask Adobe. Do not underestimate the power of being able to drag applications and documents all around the hard drive and still have them work flawlessly. Do not underestimate how nice it is to have application directories that are not full of confusingly named support files.
If your friend wants to be an artist, not a tech enthusiast she will not appreciate having to do extra administration work on operating systems that do not cater to her community.
I was a consultant for a media house that had a mix of windows, macs, (and when I was done) linux servers. The best people there regarded the windows platform as a necessary evil for doing business with non-artist customers, but never their first choice for a job.
I wish you luck.
I'm not an artist, I'm a programmer. But even so, if you tried to take away my PhotoShop, I would try to take away parts of your body. The GIMP can do some of the things that PhotoShop does. Does that mean it's an adequate replacement? Well, I've never met anyone who runs a PhotoShop-capable OS and the GIMP. (Though I am sure there are some who dodn't have the money and aren't willing to pirate software, and used up their free month of Paint Shop Pro, and so on.)
PhotoShop is 11 years old (originally written to manually draw the scene where the 'russian water tentacle' splashes to the ground in the film The Abyss), and every major release has included significant improvements, the addition of worthwhile features, and generally more polish. When I look through the menus I don't think "bloat, bloat, bloat", I think "Wow, I wish it had that feature in version 5.5, when I was trying to blah blah blah", and "What does this thingy do? *fiddle fiddle* WOW, THAT'S USEFUL!"
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
If the computer is going to be doing classwork and idle fiddling, then a smaller monitor (17") and a slower computer is acceptable (and a fully-loaded iMac might work). If your friend is intending to go into commercial work, then a small loan to finance the system is a must. $1,000 won't buy anything. Figure $4,000-6,000 (Dual 20" monitors, SCSI disks, etc.)
Go for a small loan and not racking up credit card purchases. Bad bank loans are 1/2 to 1/3 the interest rate of credit cards. Most credit card companies are just legalized loan sharks.
One easy way to save money is to not buy an Apple monitor. I don't know about the newest Apple monitors (the LCDs or the Mitsubishi CRTs), but the old ones were Sony's that were marked up about 40%. (They all had Trinitron tubes.) Dual 17" monitors is more monitor space, and more useable, than a single 20" monitor. And about the same price.
And I have to throw in a joke from an BBS I used to frequent that was run purely on Amiga, "Apple users would pay $1,000 for a toaster if it had an Apple logo on it."
Considering the retail on Adobe's Design Collection is a cool $999 (ditto for their Publishing Collection), that doesn't leave a helluva lot for hardware, even if you don't pay retail.
I'd double the budget, buy a used Apple G4 like this, and one of the Adobe sets and a scanner.
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
You don't give enough info. For example:
"I'm a gamer, what's the best PC for me?" Okay, do you play at LAN parties, do you play RTS, FPS, sol.exe?
Similarly, what does it mean 'she's an artist'? Does she work with photo manipulation, is she a painter, is she a playwright?
The thing is, the computer is a means, not an end. You have to figure out what medium she is working in. I'll assume it's photo manipulation, given your mention of slide scanners. Now you have to figure out what program(s) she likes. Let her try the GIMP. Let her try Photoshop. Let her try whatever other things are out there. THAT is what should decide your platform.
If she likes some Mac program most, and a little bit she likes the GIMP, get her a Mac (your preference be damned) and go with it. Say she likes some WinXX program. Go with that.
A couple of things: shift money heavily towards the monitor. As a matter of fact, get her to go up to $1500 so that you can get a larger monitor. Even if you have to skimp on processor. And load it with RAM (as much as the machine will take) and then pack in a gigantic hard drive. Probably want a cd-burner of some sort. The difference between a $300 processor and a $100 processor is far less than the difference between $300 of RAM and $100 of RAM, especially in perceived performance.
Pay attention to your user, and try to show a little less geeky arrogance next time.
BTW, an iMac can be had for $799. Have you done any research, or did you just pan the Mac outright?
Final thought: the software isn't cheap. Has your friend included this in the $1000? If she hasn't, you are likely going to be stuck with either Linux/GIMP or iMac/builtin stuff.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
However, is there a cost effective hardware alternative to Macintosh? -- that's my question. Something that'll run photoshop fine, scan, plug into a firewire/USB tablet, etc.? You really don't hear much about integrated firewire for Intel/AMD boards...do you know of any?
[pink beam of light]
This is probably the funniest, most ignorant thing I've ever read on Slashdot. I've got news for you - people use the MacOS because they WANT to. If you can see past your "my OS is better than yours" bigotry for a moment, you might see that all those artists have all chosen Macs for a REASON. Jeez.
OK, a lot of the other posts are fairly insightful about recommending a Mac. (Where I work, on graphics person swears by Macs, the other swears at them.)
If you go with a PC solution, I strongly recommend a Matrox video card. Top notch color quality and 2d image performance. Crisp text, etc etc. In this arena, Matrox beats the pants off of anything nVidia or ATI can field, from what I've seen.
Also, get a Trinitron moniter. You can find 17-19" trinitrons in the 250-350 range. Yeah, that's going to likely be the biggest chuck of the 1000, but it's worth it.
In addition to the keyboard (I suggest Keytronic) and mouse (can't go wrong with a M$ scrollimouse), get her one of the "hobbyist" wacom tablets. They cost about 99, but I have two computer artists that think they're worth more than their weight in gold. (I know these work with macs too, so it's a dual purpose recommendation ;) ).
Don't worry about SCSI unless she wants to do video editing.
For motherboard recommendations I usually trust Tom's Hardware. The plain fact of the matter is that most graphics tools will run just fine on say a p3-500 running on a 440bx board. So even the cheapest duron you can buy and a decent abit or asus kt133/kt133a chipset board will handle PhotoShop with one hand tied behind it's back. Out pc-using graphicsgrrl is using a duron 850 machine and is just as happy as can be with it's performance (she was giggling at how fast some of the more cpu intensive filters were running).
So, here's a parts list and prices (USD), I'm taking all this from Essential Computer. They're a place I've had good dealings with three or four times now... Anyway, this is what I'd build if it were me.
- AMD duron 950 (retail box w/ HSF): $75
- Abit KT7A: $90
- Micron 512Mb pc133 dram: $69
- Matrox G550 (32mb ddr, db15 and dvi): $93
- SB pci128 sound card: $18
- Netgear 311 10/100 nic: $18 (and/or: 3com usr 2977 non-winmodem pci 56k $45)
- Seagate Barracuda ST340016A 40gb 7200rpm ata100 drive: $96
- Plextor 12/10/32 cdrw: $112
- kb/mouse/floppy: season to taste, probably about $30-40
- Enlight 7237 case w/ 300w pwr: $59 (and another case fan for the back side: $5)
So that's a total of about $650, probably another $100 for shipping. I didn't include a moniter there, becuase the best way to buy a moniter is to go comparison shopping with your own eyes. Best Buy is currently selling a Sony 17" Trinitron moniter for 329. The moniter I use is pretty decent, it's a 19" Mag flat screen (trinitron clone). Looks like BB has an equivalent model for ~$220. So if that 1000 is only for the hardware, this system will just about fit that (tack on more if she wants scanner/printer/wacom).I didn't include software costs in that, but I'd really suggest she go with windows 2000. Stable and it supports the widest range of graphics software and hardware (I love open source as much as the rest of you, but frankly if you're serious about graphics OSS just doesn't cut it yet). That's probably $120, and then there's another $x for the graphics software itself. If you go with adobe, you would do best to find a college student and bribe them to buy you the academic-priced sw (you'll save probably 500+ dollars). (oh, and you can save $$$ on MS Word, if all she needs is simple document editing like for resumes or whatever, AbiWord works about as well as word97) There are of course alternatives to the official channels for Adobe and Macromedia producs, but that I leave up to you. YMMV (Your Morals May Vary).
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
For starters, your friend's budget is ludicrous. She might as well have given you a garden spade and asked you to fill in the Grand Canyon. Unless she plans to pirate her software, the Adobe Design Collection alone will consume most of her $1000 budget without you even starting to consider hardware.
:-)
Secondly, you would not be doing her any favors by pushing a Windows or Linux solution on her. You *want* the fonts and the colors to be consistent from computer to computer, and you don't want her to make enemies at the print shop if they keep having to dust off their lone PC off in the corner to take care of her jobs. Windows may do the shit-work of word processing and database-storing for the planet, but in the design world *Macs* are "what everyone else uses."
I would personally do the eBay thing for a beige Power Mac G3 (if you want to do the video capture stuff, get the MiniTower model, which came standard with RCA A/V In and Out jacks). The original G3s still have a lot of life left in them and can take huge, cheap IDE drives and scads of RAM. You can toss a USB or USB/FireWire combo PCI card in them to use modern peripherals while still having built-in SCSI support for the older, used peripherals that she may need, like a high-quality scanner or a CD-R drive. Upgrading the processor to a G4 (since Photoshop can take advantage of AltiVec) might be a good idea, if you're so inclined and get a good price. You might even luck out and find a whole package deal like this being sold by an artist who has recently upgraded to a new G4.
Spare no expense on the monitor-- when putting together a system for a designer I usually recommend the largest ViewSonic the person can afford. Oh, not that it matters for this project-- no LCDs. IMHO, they're still not where they need to be for serious design work.
As for input devices, you can use a regular ADB keyboard or a nice USB one-- you may want to keep an ADB model around for maintenance purposes (more easily booting from CD, zapping PRAM). I swear by Logitech USB mice. Wacom makes the best graphics tablets, even their small consumer model is very nice.
OS 9.1 is nice and stable, and you can fairly easily optimize the System Folder items to squeeze every last drop of performance out of the machine. Even on occasions when the machine does go belly-up, a quick Nortoning will straighten it out 99% of the time.
That's it. Build her a system like that, and she'll be productive very quickly, and it will last her for years. If your friend is good at what she does, she'll get the debt incurred building it paid off pretty quickly, and then start putting money in her G5 or G6 Tower Fund.
~Philly