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Let's Kill the Hard Disk Icon

Kellym writes "The desktop metaphor is under attack these days. Usability experts and computer scientists like Don Norman, David Gelernter and George Robertson have declared the metaphor "dead." The complexities blamed on the desktop metaphor are not the fault of the metaphor itself, but of its implementation in mainstream systems. The default hard disk icon is part of the desktop metaphor. And the icon is the cause of the complexity created by the desktop"

13 of 613 comments (clear)

  1. It really doesn't matter... by Gogl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, they are correct in saying that having the hard drive being somehow subservient to the desktop is confusing and well, wrong.

    However, in the end it doesn't really matter. Why? Because there are either people who understand why this is wrong and therefore it doesn't matter to them, or there are people whose understanding of a computer is one that it would require more then changing the hard drive icon to make them undestand.

    That, and I'm willing to bet that neither of these sorts of people really care one way or the other.

    Well, it's just my opinion I suppose, and you have the right to disagree. But I've always thought the recursiveness of the desktop didn't really matter.

  2. Yah right... by TZA14a · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The vague space of the hard disk should not exist for you.
    Call me old fashioned, but I for one am _not_ baffled by the vast regions of "vague space" that my file systems offer me. I don't want hundreds of stacked desktops for everything I do. This might be nice for Joe Random Luser, but if you intend to do _LOTS_ of things with your computer, and interconnect them, having the power of a file system at your disposal helps a lot.

    It is possible to build labyrinths of internal directories that eventually become too deep to navigate via the mouse.

    Yeah, that's the way it goes - the same "usability experts" who have brought us the "tree control for everything" metaphor that totally sucks in large directory trees now want to oversimplify even more. Perhaps, if the mouse is incapable of filling your needs, you should consider alternatives... such as the keyboard and a sensible autocompletion. Every time I see someone use a keyboard based navigation tool (Windows Commander comes to my mind, or bash completion), they're about ten times faster than click-move-click-move sequences.

    1. Re:Yah right... by fixion · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Keyboard-based navigation tools -- e.g. a command-line interface -- are ten times faster if
      • the user has already learned the interface. (The learning curve for command-line interfaces is steeper than for GUIs, especially if the user has first experience with a GUI. With a blank slate computer user, the learning curve is about the same...but how many blank slates who've never used Windows -- or a video game controller -- do you find?

      • the user doesn't have to re-learn the commands.The problem with most command line interfaces is that they are unique to a particular application. The keyboard shortcuts are unique, the modifier codes are unique, etc. That means learning a new interface for each application. Innefficient!
    2. Re:Yah right... by crawling_chaos · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is starting to sound like the arguments my car freak friends have about standard versus automatic transmissions. What they don't seem to get is that drivers like me don't care about optimum performance, we just want to get from point A to point B. In fact, I gave up my car and started using public transportation because I hated dealing with car maintenance and I happen to be fortunate enough to live in an area where I can get away without one.

      The average computer user wants to do his job, which often has very little to do with the computer. That 10 minutes you refer to is better spent doing something else. You and I may find that ridiculous, but we're in the minority.

      These studies are based on how average users (not your average Slashdot reader) use their computer systems. We can rail all we want to about "dumbing down" the interface, but in the end we don't really count. We'll learn the new way far more readily than the average folks will learn our way.

      --
      You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
      -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  3. Re:"The" hard disk icon? by MisterBlister · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Having more than one hard-drive doesn't stop you from getting rid of the harddrive icon. As an example, considering UNIX style filesystem mounting... Imagine if the desktop displayed everything under '/'... These directories could be spread across multiple harddrives, but under one virtual desktop/root directory.

    However, the real problem I see with the article is they don't suggest how users would deal with partitioning their space if one got rid of the harddrive icon. What I mean is, suppose I create a new directory under my root desktop, how do I specify which harddisk it should be on to better divide the free space I have on each disk? Surely they wouldn't propose that Mac end users should play around with auto mount lists as is done in the UNIX world?

    I suppose one solution would be to use logical volumes to treat all harddrives on a system as one single volume, but if so that's a much bigger change than just eliminating the hard-disk icon, and the implications of it should be better explored (if that's the sort of solution they were going for).

    Personally, I dont think anyone is particularly confused by hard-disk icons, and think the article is just blowing smoke...The article never really tries to back up its arguments or give real-world alternatives except at a very superficial level.

  4. Mac was the first? by ImaLamer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first time I saw an Apple machine other than an IIe I was very confused by the fact that the actual drive wasn't the 'root' of the system. Even though this is only in idea - it killed me, I was confused. Even Windows (3.1) used C:\!

    Now KDE, Windows 9x, and many other use the 'Desktop' as the 'root' of the system. You'll notice that this trick is only performed by the 'userland' and not the actual system. This is because it's common sense. Your computer doesn't want to look for things starting from a folder/directory/area that is actually buried deep within the system!

    I say, banish the 'Desktop'! It confuses users. Teach the file tree! Standardize the file tree!

    No more systems where programs store themselves anywhere! No more systems that show the drive under the Desktop! No more systems that show other things on the same level as the drive!

    Why confuse users? Teach them;
    "This is /, it is the root of the system."
    "This is /etc where your configuration data is stored!"
    "This is /usr - you'll find the actual programs and more there!"
    "But this is your Home/My Documents/Desktop. There are others similar to yours, but this one is yours."
    "However, it doesn't sit on top of the rest of the system!"

    Maybe I don't get it. I thought it would be easier to teach new users things they already understand.
    "This is the desktop, it's the top level, well kinda, it's actually in /home/username/.kde/desktop [or c:\windows\desktop or even c:\windows\profiles\username\desktop\ ], but it's the top of your system. Under that is your hard drive... that is where the desktop is kept."

  5. good for some, bad for most by Cynikal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Part of my job is to teach computer basics and gui navigation skills to newbies. with that said, imagine knowing nothing about a computer, and trying to navigate through it without having a point of refrence. Its like being in a new country, but having no "home" or place to stay where you start from every morning.

    I reccomend to new users to save files they dont want to lose on their desktop just because its so much easier to remember where it is. eventually it WILL get cluttered, but its a good temp solution until they're more at ease with the hard drive, and finding their way through it. I can just imagine how lost some people would feel without their desktop and most used files staring back at them when they turn on their computers.

    I can accept that there are some people who feel the desktop and hard drive icon metaphor are out dated, but i fail to see how their preference should override other peoples prefs.. instead of "killing" something you don't aggree with, how about encouraging an implamentation to have it or not, depending on your settings?

    i dunno, to me its like saying "oh i can ride a bike now, so training wheels should be abolished, they only get in the way now".
    its short sighted and biased, and only makes things harder for those who are just starting out.

  6. Oh please $deity, no... by erlando · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If what the author of this article suggests is implemented, my life would be turning into a living hell. Multiple stacked desktops for file-navigation..? Desktops for file-navigation?

    At this time of writing I have a grand total of 4(four) icons on my desktop. Only one of these is a shortcut. I have 12 more shortcuts on my taskbar (so, I use Windows. Sue me. ;o) ). One of the more used icons on my desktop is the one opening the dazzling labyrinth that is my file-system.

    I've never really caught on to the desktop-concept. Maybe it's just me.. The desktop is the background for the windows opened by the applications I run. The harddisk on the other hand is the storage for my files (filing-cabinet anyone..?).

    The desktop is a metaphor for a physical thing. And a bad one at that. As a lot of UI-design books will tell you one should be very careful when trying to use metaphors. Have a look at Interface Hall of Shame for some examples.

    Why do the author of the above article seem to think that multiplying an already bad interface will make it better? And even if the metaphor was a good one I've yet to see office-workers with e.g. a desk per client..

    The problem with finding the next great interface is that the fundamentals in a computer-system is not about to change. We will have (and need) a lot of files (information split into little logical parts) for a long time to come. There is no way around this. Abstracting the storage-space and placing the files on seperate desktops instead of having them in folders accessible from anywhere does not change this fact.

    --
    Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
  7. Re:/complexity/ ?? by Twylite · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and despite all this time, effort and money, most people still find computers complex to use.

    My SO can pick up a remote control, figure it our without the manual, and operate the TV, VCR, and Hi-Fi. So can my parents. They are happy to set the message on their answering machine, program numbers into their phones, do combo-cooking with the microwave and generally use your average household technology without instruction ... but not a computer.

    First you have to know about the idea of clicking with the mouse. The whole left-click / right-click thing which we take for granted and do 20000 times a day is NOT easy to catch onto for a new user. Once they have the idea, they still do know what to do.

    "Start button? But its already started, why do I want to start it again?". How about the little icons on the taskbar? Any idea what they mean if you haven't been told? There's a deskpad with a notebook and pencil on it [looks like a writing application, but its the desktop]. Then a big blue "e" [here is South Africa we have a TV channel called "e" with a very similar logo]. Then a clock inside a square [that would be outlook].

    When there IS a window open, there's three funny looking icons at the top right. Ask a new user if they can guess what they mean.

    With the exception of international standard symbols (like the power symbol), most people can't guess the meaning of icons. Your average Word user goes on a 3 day course to learn the basics of clicking on the correct toolbar icon, when they could select a perfectly meaningful English word from the menu system.

    The whole idea that GUIs are easy to use is a myth, as is the idea that icons are somehow more meaningful to users. These ideas have been forced down our throats by marketing droids and the odd technical writer who things (s)he knows his/her stuff.

    --
    i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
  8. Desktop means Desktop by ZigMonty · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think the main problem with this article is that the authors have forgotten what the desktop metaphor represents. It represents a desktop (surprise!). On a real desktop, if you run out of space you start filling stuff away into folders. You DON'T buy a second desk and constantly switch between them. You certainly don't end up with dozens of desks. I have over 150,000 files. How many desktops would I need?

    Directories may not make sense to some. That's why Apple and others called them folders, as in a manila folder. You take a document off your desktop and file it away in a folder. Simple.

    Remember, the original Macs used floppy disks. You frequently had more than one inserted. They looked the same on screen as they did on your other desktop. You put stuff you didn't want anymore in the trash can. Very simple for office workers to learn.

    Getting back to the article, of course the desktop took up the whole screen. What do you want around it, the floor?! Walls?

    How does one get rid of the disk icon? I have two main internal hard drives (20GB and 30GB). How else do I tell them apart? What if I insert a zip or a CD? How do I tell them apart? Or an external FireWire or USB drive? This doesn't sound very well thought out! You *could* integrate permanent drives into one structure using mount points but how is that easier for the new comer? "Oh your second disk is mounted so that it is part of your first disk". "What?"

    Having said all this, I don't have a desktop. I use MacOSX. The only thing below the windows is a desktop picture. My hard drives are in the computer window. So, in a sense, Apple has partly phased out the desktop metaphor. It still has folders, but you can choose not to display a desktop. The new representation is a Computer with icons representing all your storage devices (similar to My Computer in Windows). This is closer to what the new, computer literate generation, mine, interprets it to be.

    In short, we don't need a metaphor anymore. You only need a metaphor when explaining to new people. Using the office as an analogy made sense when computers were new. How is an office analogy going to help a young child learn about computers?

    I'd like to see us go to a database-like idea with the ability to attach arbitrary attributes to files and replace folders with categories. A file could belong to more than one category. Related categories could have links between them. Instead of a tree you'd get more of a web. Don't know if it'd be any simpler though. For the time being the current idea works.

  9. Yup by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if the mouse is incapable of filling your needs, you should consider alternatives

    Exactly. Everything you ever needed to know you did not learn in kindergarten, but for some reason some people don't beleive that. Sometimes, as is the case with general purpose computers, the interface will require some training because there are new concepts.

    An apt analogy is language. There are too many words in English. We should simplify it. Perhaps we only need 500 words. ... Of course, if we "simplify" we reduce the efficiency and power of it for those that have mastered it.

    Teach people about disks, don't take the icon away.

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
  10. Ever teach somebody how to drive a stickshift? by CausticPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Some devices are easy to figure out because they have very limited purpose. Computers are harder because they do a nearly infinite number of tasks (if you don't mind "nearly infinite" as a concept).

    So people have to learn how to use computers in the same way they have to learn how to drive a car.

    Have you ever thought about how intuitive an automobile is?


    Let's see... there are 3 pedals, but I only have two feet. I'm confused! I have to push the left one in while turning the key at the same time to start it. But then when it's running, in order to make it go, I have to push the right pedal down while slowly letting up on the left pedal? WTF?? Yet to stop again, I have to push the center pedal in this time, while at the same time pushing the left one back down again. Oh yeah and I have to move the little knob thingy back into the "1" position if I come to a complete stop, but only the "2" position if I'm at a rolling stop. But it makes a horrible grinding noise every time I move it.... oh wait, I have to push the left pedal down every time I move the knob thingy?? Who the hell designed this kludgy interface anyway? I just want to go to the friggin' grocery store, why do I have to do this crazy dancing shit with the 3 goofy foot pedals! And what's with the idiotic round wheel up near my chest? And the thing that says "Hi-Lo-Intermittent..." WTF is that supposed to mean. Set, coast, accel, resume.... Screw this, I'm hiring the neighbor's kid to drive me everywhere! He knows all this crap better than me.


    So you see, we can't demand an "intuitive" interface for everything. There are some things in life that people should just be expected to learn how to do, like operate cars and computers (regardless of the computer's OS). That also requires learning traffic laws, and similar "laws of the net."
    If we had a Fisher-Price any-idiot-can-drive interface in cars, imagine how dangerous the roads would be! Even more so than they already are, considering that most idiots already know how to drive today, despite the "complex" interface in automobiles (even with automatic transmissions!) Yet they can't copy files around on their own computer.
    --
    -CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
  11. Re:That's right by dangermouse · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is going to ramble a bit, because I'm already going to be late for work...

    You know, nobody who actually develops software thinks like this. The problem is simply that people who develop software tend to be very comfortable with a lot of interface ideas, and therefore tend to pick whichever one works the best for a given piece of their application, without so much realizing that in the overall scheme of things they might be better off simplifying it a bit.

    Believe me, we want to make it easy for the user. The easier the software is to use, the happier people will be with it, the better it will sell, the less you'll have to go back and rework interface elements.

    Sometimes, if the target audience has a bit more experience or you're working on a technically specialized application, you tend to make things easier for your target users by using interface ideas that would make it harder for someone who just walked in off the street and decided to play with your software. That's generally as it should be... if I'm working on a handy little Unix utility, I generally shouldn't bother to slap a GUI around it and design a nice icon; what my users are going to want is a solid set of (long and short) commandline options, a useful configuration file, and the ability to pass in data on stdin.

    At any rate, accusing your post's parent of elitism seems entirely uncalled-for... he's right: The concept of a big empty desktop behind your windows never confused anybody. The big expanding tree structure does suck hard when you apply it to a large directory structure. People who learn the keyboard shortcuts for their apps do generally have far better performance.

    And someone else brought up an interesting point, which is that most people spend most of their time in a few applications... only so much time and effort should be spent trying to unify the interfaces of all applications, and it really shouldn't be done at the expense of optimizing for each application.

    The flipside is that advanced users tend to recommend applications that have very powerful interfaces, which newer users tend to have trouble with because they're so highly optimized: vim, emacs, Excel, Photoshop, ksh... And they're right, if you learn to use those programs, you will discover that they're very powerful. If you can't be bothered to learn their interfaces, well, you'll just be relegated to using less powerful generically-interfaced software. This is not elitism, it's just a matter of optimization.