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CD/DVD Manufacturers To Support Windows Media
Anonymous Coward writes "Seattle P-I story on MS's latest move towards having their finger in every slice of the content pie. Oh, goody. 'Microsoft Corp. plans to announce today that four DVD makers will incorporate its Windows Media Audio technology into their players, enabling consumers to play CDs and DVDs they compiled using that technology. At the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, DVD makers Toshiba, Panasonic, Apex Digital Inc. and Shinco, a Chinese manufacturer, will announce plans to support Windows Media Format in some or all of their models this year, said Michael Aldridge, lead product manager for Microsoft's Windows digital media division.'" We've mentioned this before, but there are a few more details now.
There are gigs and gigs of both pirate and legitimate divx3 and 4 videos out there to be had on IRC, Usenet, FT, and Gnutella.
The only ones who use WMV are corporate entities who don't have anything good to encode anyway...
*sigh*
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I think that having more formats is a good thing.
Not that I'm an MS fan. "Let the markets decide."
...that this is not a great deal worse than we were before. DVDs have always been the most annoying, closed media around, and theses companies are really trying to prevent any 'unlicensed' players from being able to play these discs.
Okay.. Long term theory here..
Microsoft/media companies get hardware manufacturers to implement wma into most/all dvd/cd player hardware.
Wma is plainly readable on cdrom drives.
Combine this with encrypted redbook tracks and wma media players, and viola...
A set of audio/data cd's that can be played on portable machines, played on dvd/cd players, played on your computer, but can't be ripped into an "open" format..
And yeah i know the encryption would be broken.. But all in all it sounds like a straightforward controlling strategy.. The media corps get the control they want, and microsoft gets a bigger share of a new market..
Once the DRM stuff is cracked (Microsoft encryption -- how hard can it be), we can play the DVD anywhere.
How long until they're adding windows media video support? Since MPEG-2 encrypted with CSS has ben defeated, moving to Microsoft's content control mechanisms sounds like something the MPAA would be for. This would have the fun bonus of giving Microsoft a monopoly on DVD software, and making DVD playing on Linux (excluding the current illegal hacks, which aren't a nice way to experiance the media you payed for; no menus to access lots of the content) even more of a pipe dream.
Why is this bad? At least Apple had the presence of mind to enable their software/machines to create more-or-less *real* (read: based on MPEG-2) DVD's. There are standards out there.
Microsoft is either strong-arming or 'making-an-offer-they-can't-refuse' to the other device makers to include their formats because of Windows XP's ability to import and edit video...but only export into Windows Media format. Unless you can show me where the device makers *went to Microsoft* and said 'we want to include your tech in our machines!' then don't tell me this isn't how it is.
If this doesn't qualify as using monopoly powers to extend said monopoly into separate markets then I don't know what does.
Blech. Signatures.
As long as MS hasn't forced these companies into exclusionary contracts (Which would be a bad choice to make given their current anti-trust case), I can't see anything wrong with this initially. Unfortunately, this also ties in well with RIAAs plans to copy protect every CD. Since many DVD players appear to have problems with these, the new CDs can't play on them. However, I remember reading that MS was talking with the labels into licensing WMP such that every copy protected CD would include a second CD with the album as WMP files.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
DVD stands for Digital Versatile Disk, not Digital Video Disk. It's not SUPPOSED to be limited to your 'high quality crisp audio/video.' If I can use a DVD to store twice the number of lossy format mp3's and still play on my car stereo, then it's worth it to me.
We need the corporation to, on a one-to-one basis, support a proprietary format for an open format.
asf *and* ogg (I know the latter is audio-specific... are there Free video formats ?), for example.
This way it will still be possible to give the public to choose between Free Art or blockbusters.
Until then then we could call this a kind of monopoly as we are only given the choice to upgrade hardware that'll at the end not belong to us anymore (this is IMHO the final consequence of such digital dictatorship as this is the only way to forbid hackers to even look at these devices' internals).
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Royalties from Microsoft's DVD licensing deals are "pretty small" compared with the impact the arrangements could have on sales of Microsoft's Windows operating system, Aldridge said.
I doubt this will mean an increase in cost of DVD players. Even though media player format is lame as other's have noted in the past and present, I don't really care since I am not an audiophile. Most people don't have $2K headphones or $10K electrostatic speakers. The old argument about sound quality for average joe is useless. Heck none of my audio equipment costs more than 60 bucks tops.
If it means I can play DVD audio files on multiple devices, than it's all good to me.
That's not the big deal.
I don't care in the least that it's Microsoft and not Apple or Real who succeeded in getting their proprietary format accepted by the electronics manufacturers; the real problem is properietary media formats, period.
The bigger problem is that none of the people in charge (the media industry) has any interest in formats with open specifications, because that would defeat the scheme to move everything to pay-per-view that is taking place:
* closed media formats + anti-reverse engineering laws give control over which players you can use, and
* closed players + anti-circumvention laws give control over how many times you can enjoy the content before having to pay again.
It's just that simple.
All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
So, like some DVD players can play MP3 CD's, some will be able to play WMA CD's. Not be able to show CD's and DVD's with WMV's on them. Big deal.
...that this is going to eventually turn DVD players into another WinModem-ish hardware problem.
I'm too disgusted to go on a rant.... sigh.
/*drunk.. fix later*/
So what are we to do, as a community, about the Powers That Be blocking us from content using technological measures? Will someone reverse-engineer the Sorensen codec or write a WMF player for linux? M$ and Apple will rabidly oppose this, and its author would likely be the next Dimitry Skylarov. DVD was just the tip of the iceberg. Heck, it's even taken 2-3 years to get a reasonable HTML viewer, while M$ and Netscrape embraced and extended the standard over and over.
But from the OSS side of the fence, we don't have the muscle, and aren't organized enough to push our codecs into the forefront. Who, exactly, will negotiate the exclusive contract getting movie trailers in DivX? Or books on tape in Ogg Vorbis?
It seems the solution isn't creating standards and codified specifications either. We can beat our drum over and over about "standards", but often, standards don't negotiate contracts for themselves. Standards don't magically get chosen by media execs just because they're better. Formats get chosen because there's a nosy M$ sales guy with a bad tie in the dumb exec's office every day for a month. Which OSS philanthropist wants that job?
Are we doomed forever to have all the power, but none of the content?
--Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
Here we have the majority of service coming from cable, satellite providers. If you watch TV at all, you will notice that they are in quite the battle for market share.
This is essentially the same situation as the one going on with all these media formats. They all have their own characteristics, features, pros, and cons. Like cable and sattelite TV providers, owners of their respective media formats are also vying for supremacy.
However I never see anyone here berating Comcast or Dish Network for their competetive strategies. Why is Microsoft the only company out there that shouldn't be allowed to promote its own proprietary standard?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Likewise, I expect that there will be very few WMA or WMF DVDs. And if there are, we'll just refuse to buy them... or buy them and return them to demonstrate our dissatisfaction more clearly. Much like the copy-protected CDs.
Really, there's a large installed base of standard DVD players, and very little incentive to get a WM* compatible one. I expect there will be very few such disks.
Judebert
We're out of dynamite. What we need is a plan!
For geek dads: Contraction Timer
What's bad about it is that there is not a single end-user (a.k.a. consumer) who wants this. It is being done purely for trade-restraint reasons. There is no other conceivable explanation for it.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Why is it that every CD/DVD player that supports *.mp3 or *.ogg is celebrated because but every player that will now support *.wmf is flamed. Let's face it, there is demand for *.wmf support, so why would manufacturers not support it.
Why not have players that support many different formats. How about a convercence box that will play divx, dvd, mp3, quicktime, ogg, and wmf.
"The truth is, most people that use linux exclusively hasn't even tried Win2K"
Qualify that statement. Some of us are forced to use Win2K at work, so I know about it's stability. I also know about it's vulnerabilities.
Don't pass off your opinions as truth.
Don't blame Netscape and Mozilla's problems on the OS whatever that OS may be. The problem with Netscape and Mozilla crashing are Netscape and Mozilla.
And although there are fewer blue screens with 2K and XP, giant holes still exist in far, far greater quantity with far, far greater consequences than anything found on Linux. There has never been any worm on Linux or *BSD as costly as Code Red (which I had to deal with at work because IT failed to patch the server three full weeks after the alarm was raised), Nimda, or any of the Outlook virus-of-the-week strains. The difference for Microsoft is that they employ thousands of developers at premium cost full-time and still have bugs that probably could have been avoided.
They do this by saying the end-user "needs" features that are diametrically opposed to decent system security - though I have yet to see any such feature that was truly a must-have.
It really boils down to trying to add questionable features to their flagship products in an attempt to make the new version look like a worthwhile upgrade. Switch from 2K to XP. No thanks - It takes all my extra attention to keep my 2K workstation at work secure.
Don't talk to me about MS's stronger quality when Passport has to be patched.
Okay, since when has it been evil to say that something Microsoft is doing may not be a bad thing? At the time I typed this, the top level message was modded down to "Flaimbait".
Huh?!?
Face it, folks, there is nothing wrong with DVD players supporting Microsoft media formats. This does not take away from your ability to view DVDs; if anything, it opens up the device to play more diverse formats which as we all know is a GOOD thing.
But hey, if you don't want to be touched by MS in any way, stop playing WAV files, don't touch XML or SOAP, don't incorporate any standards into the whiz-bang window manager you're writing, don't code any more web content using any modern HTML standards, blah blah blah.
Sorry, but some of you REALLY need to learn how to pick your battles (like I do, I guess, considering that this message will probably be modded down as well and in the end won't make anyone see any more light than they're already seeing).
E. (A non-Windows user...)
Assuming you have the right programs, you can use just about any (last I checked, I could use any) MS Windows compatible codec on a Linux box. Even XMMS had the capability of playing back just about any video file that I thre at it, after downloading and compiling the right plugins
But this doesn't mean that we should let Microsoft set all the standards.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Sometimes I have to stop myself. While the fact that M$ has managed to twist the arms of hardware manufactures to spend money on inferior "standards" that won't work tomorow, and the implications of this are ominous, the reality today is not so bad. Do I really need the kinds of canned crap the RIAA puts out? I have not bought a non local CD in years. Do I really need a computer to look at crappy movies? On the rare occasion a movie is worth seeing, I go watch it in a theater.
The implications are the things to worry about, not the content. Worry about your ability to publish in a format that you can share with others. Isn't it more important to share pictures of your wedding with your friends and family than it is to show "Shreck"? How about your ability to publish ordinary papers? Worry about your ability to share published works in a public library. Do we really want to hoard information that way, so that it's pay per play or nothing? Isn't it more important that children and adults can research questions they have at a public library than it is for you to be able to read the latest pulp fiction? It is important to realize that the "content" control we see being born here is comming from the bassest of publishers, and stop the practice before it becomes universal practice. We must also work to make sure we can continue to publish on the internet.
Exercise your own power and refuse to publish in inferior, non free formats. Creating the financial incentive for hardware makers to respect your interests is just as easy as that. People who buy these new players are going to get burnt when WMA changes two years from now. The makers of those devices are going to get a big black eye from it. Don't you think that part of the tech slowdown comes from user uncertianty created by nothing M$ working right? It hurts to screw up. Meanwhile, my png, ogg mpegs and what not will work the same.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I didn't bother to read all of the messages here but it looks like a lot of knee jerking going on...
Microsoft is still trying to compete with mp3. mp3 is ubiquitous, from freely available rippers to file sharing networks to portable players to home audio equipment to car stereos, you can now obtain, burn and listen to mp3s anywhere. Why should Joe Schmoe use WMA instead of mp3 when WMA is not supported on the home/car/portable players?
Availability is the biggest immediate hurdle WMA faces if Microsoft is to get the labels on board to use their format. Then we can see if the masses take to jumping through expected DRM hoops.
Doesnt matter where you buy your hardware, you can put whatever software you want on it. Its up to you. The fact that an OS comes pre-installed is a convenience, not a requirement. I guess I am from the old camp of "computers arent toasters".
Most people actually like Microsoft? Bullshit. Support your assertion with empirical evidence or admit you're just blowing hot air out of your ass.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?