When Spammers Try To Sue You

An Anonymous Coward writes: "I was looking for information about what recourse there is against spammers when I came across this site. It appears that Bernard Shifman sent email to several people trying to solcit employment via spam, and when they replied to him, asking him to stop, and reporting the spam to his ISP he threatend them with a lawsuit. It's a very entertaining read."

Comments

My problem with spam

[Burgundy Advocate]

Or, more pointedly -- with the lengths that people go through to try and stop the spammers.

The Constitution is a wonderful thing, and I'm sure that all of us are happy that we have it to protect our rights. Free speech is one right that I'm sure we all cherish... imagine what it must be like to live in a country where you can't speak out, like China, the former USSR, France, or Iraq!

So, it bothers me when people go through such tremendous lengths to silence spammers. Granted, they're annoying. Granted, they're one step lower than a leech. There's honestly not much to like about them.

But by silencing them, we will only be hastening our countries decline into a totalitarian state.

Is software the only thing online that should be free as in speech? Why not spam?

Uh I hate to say this...

[jgerman]

...but that's not Spam. The difinition on that site is entirely too loose. The mail including the headers was valid, and Niel decides after recieving one unsolicited message that it's spam. Bullshit, if I send this guy an email by mistake am I spamming him? What if I send him an email and he just isn't interested, is it spam? Just sending large numbers of the same email out IS NOT spam. Note the definition listed does not even have any criteria based on whether or not the mail was solicited so even list hosts that you subscribe to qualify.

They picked on this guy...

[bjtuna]

I can feel the mod-downs coming, but I feel this has to be said. I think these anti-spam zealots teamed up on this poor spammer, and the only reason it went as far as it did (and as hilariously as it did) was because Shifman has a large amount of juvenile pride.

First off, it should be noted that almost all the players in this little cast (except for Shifman) are members of anti-spam Usenet groups. Do a Google Groups search for "Joe Greco", who claimed to receive one of Bernard's emails, and you'll get some not-so-nice reports of Joe's behavior:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=joe+greco&meta=. Laura Atkins, who claimed her company received a spam from Bernard, also weighed in on the whole thing. Laura's company, Blighty.com is a privacy consulting firm: people hire her to find out who spammers are. Laura's name shows up in various anti-spam newsgroups also, including the one that Joe Greco & Bill Carton post in. In this thread, you can see this for yourself.
In fact, it appears that Joe, Bill, Neil, Laura, and her husband Steve are all active posters on news.admin.net-abuse.email

I believe everyone needs a hobby, and these anti-spam people are no exception. I hate spam as much as the next guy, but I think these people see themselves as anti-spam vigilantes. Most of the time, it's okay because they're doing some good (since spam DOES suck). In this case, it appears that while Bernard's emails were sent in bulk, they were not sent to random emails. He seemed to have made an honest attempt to ensure that only HR Departments receieved his mail. In some cases, he messed up and targeted the wrong people. Since he's trying to find jobs with computer companies, it's not uncommon to send HR requests to a non-HR department; after all, many small computer companies don't HAVE an HR department, but just an admin running the whole show.

I receive a lot of spam, but most of it is for breast-enlargement pills or Make-Money-Fast schemes. If I got an email like Bernard's, I would assume:
1) he probably sent this to companys other than mine
2) he probably found my company on the web, by hand, which is why he knew we were a computer company. If we sold sofas, I wouldn't have gotten the mail.

Thus, the emails were bulk and they were unsolicited, but they were sent to addresses posted on the websites of the target companies STRICTLY for the purpose of receiving job requests and resumes.

I think Neil overreacted, and his anti-spam bully friends took over. These guys cover for each other, and pick on the alleged spammers as a team.

Re:They picked on this guy...

[SpacePunk]

The whole thing proves a point that I keep trying to make, but nobody listens is that there is a core of anti-spammers that are just as bad as the worst of the spammers and pro-spammers. Instead of just reporting the guy to his ISP they must also tell the guy he's being reported. Then they feel they must respond to his response instead of just ignoring it like civilzed people. It all comes down to a matter of the lack of two things on the parts of rabid pro-spammers and rabid anti-spammers, and those two thing are 'class' and 'style'.

It's as assinine as in IRC when someone tells someone else that they are putting them on ignore. If someone has class and style they would JUST DO IT, and dispense with all the stupid threats. It's largely cartoony from both sides.

The spammer on the other hand should have applied class and style and ignored them. The whole thing is nothing more than a juvenile shouting match where the forum is the internet instead of the school playground.

It all can be summarized this way...

'fuck you, I'm telling your mom!'
'no, fuck you fucker, my dad will kick your fucking ass'
'fuck you you fucking fucker'

Re:Careful now

[AnalogBoy]

Score (-5, Anti-Slashdotian)

You're requring slashdot users & editors NOT to jump to conclusions, NOT to have kneejerk reactions..

What are you thinking?