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GNU GPL law and "lagom" copyright

Johannes writes "Newsforge column on "lagom" copyright. I think we need to discuss these issues more. Maybe a GNU GPL law isn't so bad after all. As Pawlo states: "Would not a modern democratic society benefit from a plurality of irreconcilable and incompatible doctrines? We need the GNU GPL, but we also need proprietary software, Open Source software, BSD licenses, the Apache license and so forth. That would make the case for GNU GPL legislation void. However, as Lawrence Lessig taught us in his book Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace, the code may in itself work against plurality.""

10 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. What is the so different about software? by evilviper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The same law governing software is no different than that governing books. Everyone is in agreement that the restrictions on books are acceptable terms, so the question should be,

    "Why are software licenses more restrictive than books?"

    If it was just a matter of lawyers saying 'Hey, we can put some more restrictions in place' them why did it not propogate back to books? Is it there because it's easier to get people to agree to? Perhaps software licenses are a matter of enforcibility.

    My point? People are not asking the right questions. As the right questions and the answers are right around the corner.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:What is the so different about software? by arkanes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Remember this phrase? "Near perfect digital copies". Those 3 words drive all the additional restrictions on software.

  2. lagom = moderate by evilviper · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In Sweden, we have one word that I have not encountered outside of Sweden. The word is "lagom" and it defines the space between too much and too little.

    moderate (mdr-t) adj.

    1. Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme: a moderate price.

    2. To restrain from excess of any kind; to reduce from a state of violence, intensity, or excess; to keep within bounds; to make temperate; to lessen; to allay; to repress; to temper; to qualify; as, to moderate rage, action, desires, etc.; to moderate heat or wind.

    3. Kept within due bounds; observing reasonable limits; not excessive, extreme, violent, or rigorous; limited; restrained; as: (a) Limited in quantity; sparing; temperate; frugal; as, moderate in eating or drinking; a moderate table. (b) Limited in degree of activity, energy, or excitement; reasonable; calm; slow; as, moderate language; moderate endeavors. (c) Not extreme in opinion, in partisanship, and the like; as, a moderate Calvinist.

    4. To become less violent, severe, rigorous, or intense; as, the wind has moderated.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  3. Re:Definition by Performer+Guy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The financial issues are called socialism, not Lagom. It's the same in the UK, but Thatcher fixed some of it. Working class folks still look at a lottery winner as a hero, but it you make a lot of money, especially if you're paid a lot, then you'll be treated like a criminal by some. Of course real criminals like Ronnie Biggs are treated like heroes. If you make it big your only hope is to try and fly a balloon around the world.

    In America there's a culture of self improvement and more of a belief that if you have money chances are you earned it. The irony is that in the UK public education is generally better than the USA, but the culture holds some back. There's an entrepreneurial gestalt in most circles in the USA. There are exceptions and forces working against this, but it's America's greatest strength IMHO.

  4. Just hot air by arQon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Until such time as the GPL is actually enforced, this kind of talk is nothing but a pointless ego-wank for people trying to impress us with how liberal and/or hip to the community they are.

    On a small scale, codifying the GPL just takes the decision on that enforcement out of the hands of the people who produced the code in the first place and give it to an overworked legal system that most of us wouldn't trust as far we can throw it anyway.

    On a larger scale, if ALL end-user code has to be open you adversely impact all sorts of things that you never considered in your knee-jerk reaction. Okay, so you might want Word opened so that we can get of these BS proprietary formats; or Outlook opened so the damn thing doesn't propogate infections faster than an open wound in the Black Hole of Calcutta. That's great, and there are real benefits there. Meanwhile though, online gaming goes into the shitter as every client instantly becomes 100% untrustworthy.

    And what would it really help, as far as the GNU "ethic" goes? The same people that steal GPL'd code today would continue to do so: whether it's one guy and his pet project with a very limited audience (e.g. MQW) or a megacorp that loves the GPL for helping them cut development cost/time but doesn't go for "that hippy ideology" of actually returning the favour.

    Scum will be scum no matter what you do with the laws. "Breaking" the GPL is already illegal, and it's not stopping them so far.
    Seems to me that the only reason the utter drivel of the original article even gets a mention (and thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life, BTW) is that those with an axe to grind about MS will get wood over the idea.

  5. Re:Definition by uchian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can anyone provide a soundfile as to how "lagom" should be pronounced? It's one of those words that really fills a hole missing in the English Language, and I'd like to start using it :-)

  6. Misunderstanding of 'punishment' by LatJoor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to Lessig there is no reason to ban or punish proprietary providers. But this view is hardly consistent with Lessig's view on the future of software copyright law. In Lessig's future system, proprietary providers are severely punished. They lose about 100 years of protection, the current copyright protection of life of author plus 70 year,s compared to five plus five years and then full disclosure.

    I think the author misunderstands this. Taking away most of the term of the software copyright is not "punishing" proprietary providers, it continues to reward them for publishing closed code by giving them exclusive rights for ten years. It does reduce their *reward* to a much more reasonable term, since most software is pretty much useless after 10 years. Don't forget that this copyright term is a gift from the government to the author, not a fundamental right.

    Meanwhile, those who publish Free Software get no rewards in today's system, and Lessig suggests that they should get some when he says that the government should "encourage" open source. "Encourage" means "reward" desired behavior.

    Copyright is an entirely artificial right, constructed for social purposes, not one of those "inalienable" rights in the Declaration of Independance. It is, in fact, more reminiscent of the medieval system of "rights" where the term really meant privileges granted by the feudal system. For example, in many places in Europe the lord had a "right" to sleep with any bride before the husband got a go at her. These kinds of rights can change as society sees fit, according to what is deemed most beneficial.

    Perhaps it is best that we reward artists and programmers for their work to provide them an incentive, but this is not a matter of fundamental morality. If you don't want your work copied you can keep it secret, but if you share it with others I see no innate, compelling reason why you should have the power to control how each person uses it should it fall into their hands. In fact, I *do* find it immoral that some should try to restrict use of their work or discoveries in a way that unduly restricts the work's benefit to society in the name of profiteering.

    Furthermore, it's unfortunate that this article does not address patents, because even if proprietary sources are divulged ten years from the release of the code, they will remain useless to others if they implement still-active patents held by the author.

    1. Re:Misunderstanding of 'punishment' by Hobbex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What is wrong with profiteering? Why is profit a bad thing? Profit is a great thing. It's people getting what they deserve for using their mind to create something useful.

      There is nothing wrong with profiteering, but as a society we are not compelled to, and should not, bend over backwards and abandon our freedoms just so that people can profit more. The abolition of slavory stopped plantation owners and slave traders from profiteering - not because it was wrong for them to make a profit, but because it is wrong to keep people as slaves. Likewise copyright should be abolished, not because it is wrong to profit, but because it is wrong for one person to execute control over what another person says or writes.

      If somebody writes something, that's theirs. It IS morally wrong for any government to take that away from them.

      That depends what you mean by the pronoun "that" in the above sentences. If you are refering to the information itself, so that it would read:

      If somebody writes something, the information is theirs. It IS morally wrong for any government to take the information away from them.

      I could not agree more: it's a completely heinous crime when a government tells someone they are not allowed to have, and thus must destroy, a piece of information they have written (say a program that decrypts DVDs for example). If you have written some information you should get to keep it for as long as you want - certainly nobody on this side of copyright debate have argued otherwise.

      If you however meant something else by "that", which it seems you did by the context though maybe without being aware of it, that changes things. It seems you meant:

      If somebody writes something, the power to censor it is theirs. It IS morally wrong for any government to take the power to censor it away from them.

      which is complete bullshit. As the previous poster stated, any such ability is a power (not a right, as Stallman likes to note) artificially granted to the author by society at great cost to freedom. It is justifiable only by those economic utilitarian arguments which bare a uncanny resemblance to those used against the aforementioned abolition of human slavory.

      It IS morally wrong for a government to tell an individual how long or how much they are allowed to profit from their work. This is most definately a MORAL issue. Any kind of limitation put on how much a person can profit from his/her work is one thing: thievery.

      And if my "work" is kidnapping people, torturing them, and using them as forced labour?

  7. Re:GPL is defensive by anothy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    first, you write "The only thing they can do is to spread FUD...", then you follow shortly on with this gem:
    ...all form of GPL-bashing or trying to put bad words in the mouth of the FSF people are to be looked at with a critical eye.
    now who's spreading the FUD? you're advocating, basically, that people be discouraged from debating - and thus improving - the GPL. further, the FSF does take very clear positions on things, and it's often not necassary to put any words in their collective mouths to find something to take issue with. RMS has very strong ideas on the future of software licensing, and many people legitamatly take issue with them. your suggestion is harmful both to the public good and propriatary interests.
    Never forget that the BSD and most other license are very weak at protecting our collective work
    what? what on earth are you talking about? can you show a single case where a BSD license was found un-enforcable? in fact, BSD's gone to court, which i don't believe can be said for GPL (am i wrong?), and found explicitly enforcable. the BSD license places far fewer restrictions on the recipient of the license than the GPL does, and is thus likely to continue to be better enforceable. what GPL does - and BSD doesn't - is give you the right to see other people's work who used yours; BSD protects yours just fine. and enforcing restrictions on other people's works certainly seems somewhat less fundamental than putting protections on your own.
    Under BSD, any company could take our code, slightly change a protocol, patent it and sue the original authors
    this is bullshit, pure FUD, and it makes me very angry. in the case you describe, the patent would likely not be awarded, due to the existance of prior art. should it be awarded, it would be overturned if it ever went to court, for the same reason. what you're doing here is dishonest and vicious. you're playing on the fact that the BSD license - unlike the GPL - implicitly preserves the right for the licensee to release propriatary modifications. but, again, BSD still protects the original work (and has for longer, under better testing, than GPL). whether or not to allow propriatary derivative works is something a software author must decide. there are valid arguments on either side, but to reduce the complex issue to the ignorant statement above is just plain wrong.
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    i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
  8. Re:For those of you wondering what "Lagom" means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The -om suffix in 'lagom' is actually an archaic dative ending, i.e. a grammatical construct that has nothing to do with the current word 'om' which, however, does mean 'around'.

    There are a few remants of dative forms left in Swedish - 'lagom' and 'understundom' are the ones I can come up with right now.