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Handspring Delays Treo, Plans To Drop Organizer Line
backlonthethird writes: "http://www.palminfocenter.com has the scoop on Handspring's triple announcements yesterday. CEO Donna Dubinsky says they're dropping "Organizers," (i.e. visors?), and most of their new Treos are going to Europe because of a parts shortage. At least their losses this past quarter aren't as bad as people were expecting--they claim profitability by this Summer. What the heck is going on over there?"
I drop my organizer all the time, and I don't have to fold up a company to pay for the replacement...
Tatsujin
The reason Handspring/Palm are having so much trouble is, in fact, the PocketPC. Now, you can pooh-pooh them all you want, say WinCE is bloated, the machines are overpowered, they chew through battery like nobody's business, whatever. The FACT is, when you sit down a person in front of a machine running PalmOS and a machine running WinCE, the WinCE machine is IMMEDIATELY more impressive. People see PocketWord and PocketExcel. Don't dismiss the value of name brand recognition. Even the fact that the machines run Windows make them less intimidating to people. If you grab a hold of a WinCE machine, immediately you are right at home with a Start button, etc. On PalmOS, you have to familiarize yourself with the device, strange interface, Graffiti. I'm not saying PalmOS doesn't have its spot, I'm just saying a niche won't support enough users for a company to stay afloat. A long used comparision is Windows : Linux :: WinCE : PalmOS. Sure, anyone that REALLY knows what they're doing will have a Palm, but that ratio must be like 1/100, which is NOT enough to keep a whole company alive. Unless Palm/Handspring pack more features into their offerings, they are going to go under, and in a big way. Never underestimate the value of shiny things.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Yeah, they'll stop making Visors one day... color me stunned. Sony stopped making 10" B&W TV sets at some point too...
The Treo is a nifty little device which is an evolution of the Visor. Integrating a phone makes sense, integrating wireless makes sense. If Handspring decides not to make a device that *only* does PDA type functionality, that's probably a good business decision. Sure they're still be a market for a limited device like that, it just won't be Handspring making it. But as the technology changes, and component prices come down, it'll be generally expected that a device have more and more features. Handspring is just acknowledging that fact.
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
Donna has referred to organizers as a "dead end" several times before now. I can't blame her, since she's right. With the hardware getting better and better all the time, and Microsoft's PocketPC basically owning the high-end of the market, she can see where the road will lead. When the hardware finally does catch up and the price falls, no one will pay $100 for a Palm when they can get a PocketPC for the same price that runs their cozy Windows OS and does almost as much as their laptop.
:)
So what does Handspring do? They go sideways. Start merging their devices into cell phones and other WiFi solutions, and hopefully expand the market in a way Microsoft's lumbering embrace-and-extend strategy won't be able to engulf for another year or two, buying them some more time to figure out where to go next.
In a bizarre way it reminds me of The Nothing relentlessly following Atreyu across the countryside in The Never-Ending Story.
This tagline is umop apisdn.
Until PDAs really get more main stream in large corporate world accounts they won't be successful. I call on fortune 500 companys and state government accounts. The only people that have Palm or WinCE devices are other Techs that are 'evaluating' one, or other sales types that sell them. Other than that, I never have anyone I can beam my business card too and I continue to have to use paper ones.
They need to get a product on there that is invaluable, or can help replace the much more expensive laptop. Until then, they're going to be an expensive calandar whos nearest competitor is the Franklin Planner, or the DayTimer.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I was at Comdex this year where the Treo was unveiled. It is boxy and not very comfortable to use. The idea is a good one, but it looked like an American car from the 70s next to a sleek Toyota of today.
;-)
Europe is a great market to move this to as folks appreciate the gadgets more than Americans do. Then again, maybe they like the design.
I looked at the Treo device and thought really cool.
But some poster mentioned that the PDA market is collapsing, or the PocketPC is eating everyone's lunch.
Well I do not know. Here is what I do know. Companies are not allowing things like Blackberries anymore (PDA inclusive). I have owned about 5 PDA's in different form factors and the result is that I use none of them.
So I kept thinking why this is the case? The answer is that I have several notebooks and I find the problem with PDA's is that there is simply not enough space. I get quite a bit of email and documents. A PDA just sucks. However, notebooks have become small, work everywhere, etc, etc.
So I think the black knight is the notebook market.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Now if they'd just work on getting the transporter functional, phaser operational, and making one-piece miniskirt outfits come back in style, I can start living the life of Kirk.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Sure, it's a gamble for Handspring, but it might just pay off. I've used both PocketPC and Palm OS devices extensively and found that if you want a lightweight, mini-pc, the PocketPC is far better suited to this. However, if you want something really lightweight (as in both form and function), the Palm OS is a nice addition to any phone.
In fact, I've got a Samsung Palm OS phone right now and it's a truly wonderful hybrid device - perfect for my needs. I can't wait to see what these new Treo phones bring to the table, especially the color model (should Handspring hang around long enough to deliver it).
DigiSquid Design.
Handspring CEO Donna Dubinsky said "We are a company that is transitioning out of the organizer business and into the communicator business. At some point we will have transitioned out of the organizer business."
Please don't do that to the English language, Ms. Dubinsky. It has suffered enough.
In order to create a successful wireless platform you're going to need good hardware.
Handspring doesn't have it. They've got a 33Mhz 16-bit Motorola Dragonball processor. It can (slowly) serve the most basic mobile data needs (email, instant messaging), play a couple of neat little games, and be a pretty effective organizer, but that's about it.
Palm OS devices are stuck at 8 or 16MB's of total capacity, which sure as hell means you won't be storing any large files (movies, MP3s, etc) on it.
They need modern hardware, like an ARM-derived platform, to overcome these inherent limitations. (I know, Palm says it's working on it, but that was supposed to materialize how long ago now??)
Also, another hardware problem is the resolution... the Prism looks awesome in the photos, but remember that the resolution is ONLY 160x160 -- the same as the Palm IIIc. For those that have seen the IIIc, you will remember that it has a very grainy resolution.
Although the Prism does have a higher color depth, and uses TFT color, unless the screen has a tighter dpi, you will probably find that it is only marginally better than the IIIc. Also, remember that it is thicker and heavier than a regular Visor.
I'm very interested in seeing a real one up close, in both indoor light AND outdoor light. As far as color goes outside, I have only seen 2 color LCDs that really work well outside -- the Sony hybrid LCD on their digital camera, and the Compaq IPAQ. The rest wash out completely.
...is the only reason I'm a Handspring user. The backup module kicks ass, and with my extra on-call pay this week, I'm seriously considering the OmniRemote module. The VisorPhone looks cool too, but GSM capabilities in the U.S. are virtually non-existant and I'm not impressed by VoiceStream. That slot is what sold me over. I'd have a Palm V otherwise.
:) Granted, they look pretty...but under a very heavy use load, I get a couple weeks out of my Visor Neo's batteries.
Last I knew, WinCE devices don't have that kind of expandability...unless someone is planning to make PCMCIA versions of all those cool devices.
There's something about it being "non-Microsoft" that I enjoy...something that I don't feel particularly tied to...free.
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
And the funny thing is that they are being killed by a better product.
No, they're being killed by a different product. The Palm OS machines are intended to be inexpensive, practical organizers -- not undersized laptops or $500 status symbols. Palms trade things like MP3 playback and glitzy graphics for battery life, light weight, small size, and low price.
Palm OS devices are incredibly practical to someone who needs a powerful organizer for their work -- which is why medical professionals love them. For some kid that's looking for a fancier version of a Gameboy to impress the other kids, the PocketPC machines may be appealing:
Dudez, im righting this email on my iPaq and listening to a Rancid MP3! iPaqs rule! Palms are seriously gay!
The grown-ups will continue to buy Palm as long as they are available.
The US is a relatively small market for mobile technology, that's why. Around 20% of the world's mobile phone users are in the US. That means the other 80% are elsewhere in the world and more than likely using GSM.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
The springboard was a marvelous idea. The biggest selling point in my book being plug-and-play that actually worked. All software is on the card, and the Visor recognizes it instantly. Witness the Sony Clie's memory-stick camera. Note on their web site says that it only works after loading the software on seperately. That's a shame, because with the Springboard, it's 100% automatic. In the end, I think most people were like me and thought they were cool but couldn't fork over the money.
Handspring has just destroyed the Springboard and Visor markets with these statements. I am lead programmer for Shine Micro Shine Micro, maker of the SM2496 DSP module for the Visor, and we have been working hard to bring our product to market. Currently it is in Beta testing, but it now appears that we are going to have to redesign for a different platform, or dump the project entierly.
The quote was that the will be exiting the PDA market "but not today". That doesn't provide any kind of reassurance to any of the Springboard deleopers who have invested a great amount of time and effort into what is now a dead product line.
Yes, all product lines are finite. But you usually don't have the manufacturer announcing this fact prematurely. I don't see any reason for someone to buy a Visor or a Springboard module now that they know that the support will not be there sometime in the near future.
It sounds like Handspring is turning into a fancy cellphone company. I don't think that they will survive this move. The Visor and Springboard are a good product and would have carried them far into the future (just look at Palm).
Brian Lane
Lead Programmer
Shine Micro
Maker of the SM2496 DSP module
Remember Lexington Green!
nobody's upgrading? My old Palm still works fine.
sulli
RTFJ.
I find it amusing that you think that the OS with 80% marketshare is getting 'killed'. Right.
None of that "unfair bundling" crap to complain about.
No, I'll just complain about Microsoft using existing monopolies to create a new one in the PDA OS sector (which is illegal). Microsoft is leveraging Windows by virtue of developer lockin, and is leveraging Office by virtue of proprietary file formats ("view Word and Excel e-mail attachments right on your iPaq!"). I hope Microsoft gets slammed for it.
299,792,458 m/s...not just a good idea, its the law!
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
You could add phone and wireless capabilities to a Visor through the expansion slot in the back. Also, you have an mp3 player, digital camera, and a whole mess of other stuff. Palm is the one that is just a PDA.
"It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
I can't figure out why handspring would announce this. They have, in the eyes of consumers, obsoleted their entire inventory. What are they going to do with their warehouses full of neos, prisms, and pros? I go to fry's and there are still deluxes piled up everywhere. They're not going anywhere after this. Why not announce a price cut, clear the inventory and THEN announce a product's obsolence. This current strategy places them atop piles of unsellable inventory... not to mention the fact that it kills their revenue stream for the immediate future.
So much of these threads are just plain dumb. You people are just talking about hardware and the OS and nothing about what the device is used for.
The PalmOS based devices are great PDAs and get you your data faster, easier, and in general, cheaper. Do I care if my PDA has 4,8, or 32 MB of RAM when I can put 10's of thousands of addresses and appointments in 2-4MBs? There are tons of other apps that help me keep my data/life organized too and they are cheap or free.
There's a place for full featured pocketable PC's but they currently don't do too well at playing music(batt life rots), there's alot of WOW factor with the movie playing and picture viewing but is that what the majority of the market for handheld computers needs? It's getting close to the time that an MP3 player is builtin( w/CF slot ) and soon simple wireless ( ala bluetooth ) but video and wordprocessors? Who would be dumb enough to write THAT much on a handheld? Get the text in there and let the desktop pretty it up.
This is another classic marketing story that unless Palm and it's partners get off the ass, they're going to get blown away by MS and the public is going to think they need to spend twice as much as they NEED to. Once again Microsoft gets richer at the expense of usability and the public pays for it. They are great at marketing and that means getting people to THINK they need their products.
I'd love to see someone here talk about what people DO with all these different devices instead of just talking about features.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I liked the idea of the handspring modules...But they have never really taken off, and are hard to find in the stores. (and really expensive) -- I long for the day I could just simply take the PCMCIA modem or NIC card out of my laptop and use it with my "state of the art circa 1996" HP 200LX .. And in 2002 I am spending $100+ for a 33.6K springboard modem for my Handspring (granted you can find them in the stores -- hint, you may have some luck on the closeout table right next to the returned items that have been marked down .5%)
The palms are even worse -- I dont think the external devices have been compatible with the next gen models since day 1. (I.E. my palm V modem will not work with my palm m505 -- etc.)
If ever I have seen a market that was begging for a little standardization -- the PDA market is it.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
It is better for all the people who decided to buy a PocketPC than a Palm, apparently.
[sarcasm]
It's nice to know that consumers never make the wrong choice. I'm glad that none of them are ever disappointed by the battery life, weight, reliability, usability, etc. I'm happy that people who received PocketPCs as Christmas presents were universally happy with them.
[/sarcasm]
I guess, by your logic, AOL is the Best ISP In The World because they have the most customers.
It is better because it does more and does it faster than Palm can.
My desktop computer can do more and do it faster than a PocketPC. Does that make it "better" than a PocketPC?
If the Palm does everything that I need it to, why would I care that a PocketPC can do stuff I don't need (like play MP3s and jerky, low-res videos)?
It may not be better for you, but it is better for all the people who helped put PocketPC sales above PalmOS sales last year.
Again, you seem to have the mistaken notion that consumers always make the best choice. Remember, consumers bought thousands and thousands of Pet Rocks, Cabbage Patch Kids, and Beanie Babies.
So, when are you going to sign up for AOL?
So, mostly they don't bother - they sell all their interesting models everywhere else, and sell a few models in the US that are most easily re-engineered to work here.
My friends at Nokia tell me the phones we have here are 2 or 3 years behind Europe.
The M505 could even use a little shrinking still. PocketPC devices are not addressing shrinking form factor, but rather are adding bloatware bells and whistles. I would not even consider looking at one if I couldn't leave it in my shirt pocket comfortably.
Wow, full circle - This is why I think that Handspring is smart by betting the farm on the Treo. I'm with you - I want my PDA to be small and extremely portable, just like my mobile phone. From what I've read and seen (and from what Handspring claims) the Treo is the smallest of all the Palm devices so far (smaller than a deck of cards) and it's a phone which means I can kill two birds with one credit card purchase. I think a lot of people will be just like me.
This is definitely the area where the PocketPC is going to have trouble following the PalmOS - to this small of a form factor and functionality, which I would venture is much more important than Color/Memory/MP3, etc. "Stinger" cuts too much out of the OS to be a PDA on a phone, I think. But that doesn't matter - it's considered a different platform anyways. I can't write a PocketPC/Stinger application that will work effortlessly like I can write a PalmOS app right now that will still work on the Treo.
The question in my mind is what's going to happen with PalmOS 5.0? Suddenly, the PalmOS is as power hungry as the PocketPC. Will there be a PalmOS 5.0 based Treo? It's a good question. Does this mean that PDAs will all progress to 32 bits, but "Communicators" will be stuck in 16 bit for the time being? Maybe not since there's Nokia, SonyEricsson, Motorola and the rest of the Symbian group to think about. The Symbian OS is 32 bits and runs on their phones. But when will their "Smartphones" move up to be more like PDAs? (Not counting the Nokia 9210 which is more PDA than mobile phone). And when are we going to see the first Linux based PDA/Phone?
-Russ
Me