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CompactFlash / IDE Interface for Apple II
jutpm writes: "This page describes a project to create an IDE / CompactFlash Interface card for 8 bit Apple II series of computers. The card is ProDOS 8 compatible and supports up to 64 Meg (two ProDOS 32Meg drives). I am very impressed with the work this guys work. Definitely a case of old technology meeting new."
just think how much space 64mb is to an apple ][e.... no more flipping disks!
true the technology of the host machine is slightly outdated but hell.... you could probably fit one's entire software collection onto a single card, and not have to worry about changing a disk. program the flash and just pop it in, run whatever you like.....
my question is , is there an easy way to access the filesystem other than on an apple?
Is not life a hundred times too short for us to bore ourselves? -Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Without the experience I had with 6502 assembly language on the Apple II trying to get a gambling game suite called "Place Your Bets" to respond to keypresses and draw graphics faster than Applesoft Molasses Basic, I never would have had the knowledge of the 6502 processor necessary for NES development.
That's funny... the last computer I owned that I didn't write a Tetris clone for was an Apple II.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The guy that did this had written into the letters section and sent a link to Woz. Woz seemed impressed, understandably so. The funny thing is that this is considered mass storage for the ][e. For those that still put their old apples through the motions, this could save them a lot of disk swapping, as they could more than likely fit their entire software and data library onto a single 64meg card. neat!
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
Some outfits sell the Focus Drive, which purportedly works with a 2.5" IDE disk... But seeing as how CF has dropped in comparison to a hard drive, and it's smaller, and it generates no(t a lot of) heat, and doesn't make you waste loads of space on the IIe, it has appeal.
I see the guy uses the same emulation tools I do -- I ported ADT to ProDOS chiefly to get my 6502 mojo working again... and Apple II Oasis is the best IIe emulator out for win32.
I'll most likely throw my name into the hat for a board... hopefully this is US-based. All the neat AppleII boards seem to originate in Europe for some reason.
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
Compact Flash cards are controlled like a ide harddrive, wouldn't it be much easier to use a other flash media with a much simpler serial interface ? Like a smart media, multi media card or a memory stick ? (memory stick specs are now for free on www.memorystick.org)
Jan
I miss Beagle Bros. I remember having their giant chart of peeks and pokes on my wall... man, that was useful.
I think a 68060 would probably be just about fast enough...
:/
:)
'except no mac ever actually shipped with one of those
(Amiga's did though
The state owned TV company in NZ (TVNZ) up until very recently (Q4, 2001) used an Apple ][+ or Apple //e to power their Teletext system (a simplex news & info terminal built into most TV's sold in NZ). They've recently upgraded to a Sun Solaris host to provide the same functionality. The reason: they were no longer able to get spare parts and the system did start to become somewhat unreliable.
So while the system may not have been critical, it did provide a public service, produced revenue and worked moderately well - hardware faults excepted.
It wouldn't surprise me that much to hear that other organisations still use older technology to deliver a solution. After all, why fix it unless it's broken?
Fast, cheap & reliable. Pick two.
this sounds like a really good hack, by my own definition of Good Hack, which is "do something nobody else has done yet, that's really hard and at the same time, almost completely useless to most people"
up there in my book would have to be the MP3 player for Newton MessagePads (which i installed, and it works really well. streaming MP3 on a newton? oh yeah...)
though, along with the ATA flash card driver for Newtons, it almost turns my MessagePad 2100 into my portable MP3 player. saves me $400 for an iPod (though i'm lacking about 4.9G of the storage...)
kudos to the hack, and massive props to apple][ users still out there who can take advantage of this and all the cheap storage of the new CF cards.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
I've mirrored it at the URL below. Photos will be up as soon as they've finished downloading. :)
:)
http://www.slimdevices.com/CFforAppleII
I dunno if my server's going to hold up any better, but it's worth a shot.
Just in case, a couple snippets from the page:
ast Update: Jan 17, 2002 - 11:40am CST
Project Introduction:
This page describes a project to create an IDE / CompactFlash Interface card for 8 bit Apple II series of computers. The
card is ProDOS 8 compatible. I did this project over the span of several months. Although it took much longer than
expected, it was a fun project. This project is very much a case of old technology (the
Apple II computer) meets new (IDE / CompactFlash cards and Altera CPLDs).
My reasoning for this project is described in detail in the last section, but suffice it to say, I
wanted to be able to pull out my old Apple and use it from time to time to reminisce about the
early days of personal computers. I wanted a reliable way to store my Apple II programs and
data files for many years to come. Due to the Apple II's floppy drives long term reliability
prospects and my general laziness, I decided a mass storage device is what I needed.
If there was enough interest in this project I would love to make a small batch of boards to
sell to those interested. But I would need at least 10 orders, and it may be hard to find 10 people interested in something
like this. I can be reached at rich@dreher.net
Currently I have only built a prototype, which means no extensive testing has been done
yet.
The Apple II was an excellent example of an open system, with unheard-of-today
documentation like system schematics, firmware listings, and peripheral design tips. Indeed
the only thing that was totally hidden was the source for the BASIC interpreter - "AppleSoft"
written by giga-monopoly Microsoft. In the spirit of the Apple II this project is completely
open.
Project Definition:
A CompactFlash/IDE Interface for 8 bit Apple II family of computers
Support for up to 64 Meg, (two ProDOS 32Meg drives)
On board EPROM for the ProDOS 8 driver code
Allow booting ProDOS directly from the Interface card (for a floppy-less system)
Current version of driver code requires a 65C02. (IIe Enhanced or later)
Project Prototype Hardware:
My first prototype used no discreet 74HCTxxx series parts and all logic was in the CPLD, but due to several unrelated
problems with construction and the consumption of all PLD resources, I decided to build a second prototype with using
74hct373 parts, this time paying more careful attention to power distribution. I still believe it would be easy to eliminate
the discreet 74xxx series parts if you used a larger PLD, like the EPM70128S. Although it might not be very cost
effective.
Here is the schematic I developed AFTER completing my prototype. That means this schematic has not been tested. If
you decide to build this project, you might want to check with me for any changes first. Also if you find any mistakes
please let me know. Project Schematic: ORCAD Capture Format
If you just want a quick look at the schematic click here to view a 640k jpeg of the schematic. Modem users: sorry about
the size, but I wanted it to be clear and readable as possible.
Prototype Parts List:
1 - SanDisk CompactFlash 64Meg or 32Meg
1 - CompactFlash to IDE conversion board - Adtron SDDA-03 available from EMJ Embedded
1 - ISA bus prototype board (trimmed to fit into the apple bus) Jameco part #21531
1 - 44pin PLCC socket. Jameco part #71618
1 - 44pin PLCC wire-wrap socket. (http://smt-adapter.com/ - part #44PG-W or similar)
1 - Altera EPM7064SLC44-10F
1 - 27128 EPROM
2 - 74HCT373 transparent latch
2 - 74HCT245 bus transceiver
7 - 22ohm 1/8w resistors
5 - 0.1uf capacitors non-polarized (used for power supply bypass)
3 - 1.0uf capacitors non-polarized (used for power supply bypass)
10 - 30 pin wire wrap SIPP sockets. Jameco part #104053 (there were some leftover)
misc wire wrap tools and wire
Hrrmm... I'm now thinking of ways to do that.
1) Watch for accesses to $C030. The problem here is that any program accessing the speaker this way gets intercepted. :o)
2) Alter 3 bytes starting at $FF3A to jump to your routine. The chief problem with this is you'd be having to alter ROM. Not impossible; just a little more difficult, depending on which Apple ][ you have.
3) Use the Language Card's version of the Monitor ROM at all times, and have its $FF3A patched. Big drawback here is you'll lose the nice bell the instant you want to use ProDOS.
Thought-provoking, tho...
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
Around 1993-94, I remember a vendor (allegedly) working on a DSP card. If memory serves, it was to have had a 16 MHz or 20 MHz Motorola 56k-series DSP on board, along with I don't remember what else (probably some RAM at least). I don't remember ever seeing one, or hearing that they'd gone into production, although it certainly sounded cool at the time. Don't know that it would have been very useful for anything, though (I recall suggestions of software modems, but that's about it). Anyway, this probably could have done the trick...
Serial interfaces are especially nice on the Apple because you don't have to build an expansion card to talk to them---you can use the game port. There are four outputs and three inputs there. You'd need a level shifter to get the voltages down to the 3.3v range those flash cards want.
I just wrote out a little 6502 assembly bitbanger to talk to a purported SPI device on an Apple game port, and it looks like it's around 40 cycles per bit. So that's around 3kBytes/sec, raw. Not too bad for a 1 chip interface that doesn't take up a slot!
I don't remember if the analog electronics on the gameport inputs let you pump bits that fast. But it sure would be cool to have a single module plugged into the gameport, with 64M of storage---on a package smaller than the 6502.
I'm guessing the easiest thing to do is build a small FPGA that lives on the 6502 bus that has a shift register and a one-shot 8-clock SPI clock generator. (FPGA clocked from the pin 36 7MHz signal?) I'm already way past my knowledge of design, but it seems like this would be very easy to build, and should deliver bytes as fast as the 6502 could digest them---reading from a slot address takes 4 cycles, and writing somewhere takes at least 4 more. Likely this kind of system would end up blocking on the flash device itself some of the time.
Anyway, I think it's possible you could have a two chip design: FPGA and level shifter. Amazing what might be possible with just a few chips these days!
The person doing it was named Pete Snowberg. I still have the sheet he handed out at an expo or developer con listing all the wonderful things that the DSP board would make possible... somewhere. I'm not going to bother trying to find it, now (but I know where to look should I feel the perverse urge :).
It never even made it to the prototype stage, but it sure generated a lot of buzz in the community.