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Wired Talks Wine
matroid writes "Wired reports that the upcoming WINE version 1.0 may be just what Linux needs to get users to migrate from Windows to Linux."
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Hopefully Lindows will start implenting this new version of WINE and maybe start being able to run more programs. I think Lindows will be more successful at getting converts than WINE alone.
The future isn't what it used to be.
I'm sure if Wine 1.0 had no difficulties running MS Office, IE+Outlook Express, Halflife CounterStrike and ICQ, a large chunk of dual booters would never have to go back to Windows.
#include
---- The geek shall inherit the Earth.
Of course it is. People just aren't going to give up the apps they already use.
Look at Mac OS X -- this UNIX-based OS, has built in a Mac OS 9 emulator, expresslly so people can run their old apps. Is it necessary for OS X itself to run? NO! But without such a emulator, Mac OS X would probably have not taken off as quicky as it is.
The situation is exactly the same with Wine and Windows, especially if one views Linux as an "upgrade" to Windows and wishes to target disgruntled Windows users.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
"I also find it intriguing that Microsoft has a Linux Competitive Manager if they don't see Linux as competition."
-- from WINE contributor István Lebor
--- Learn XForms today: http://xformsinstitute.com
WINE lets CodeWeavers has created for QuickTime and Shockwave run so smoothly that I never think about them.
I have paid 20$ for CodeWeaver's Crossover plugins. And like he said Shockwave and Quicktime run very smoothly with Galeon + Mozilla 0.9.8. Without having any noticable load on the system resources.
So do your part go pay 20$ and get Crossover plugin. While enjoying all the Quicktime, Shockwave fun, you will be helping Codeweavers in not ending up like Loki.
I had mixed feelings about Transgaming, since they may not be helping in getting Linux game ports and so on. But with Loki gone I might support anything that will get good games on linux.
Its fine with Crossoevr plugins, since Apple was not going to do a Quiktime port for Linux anyway. And I think I read that Apple did support Codeweavers in getting Quicktime working with Wine.
I think Wine should get with the times and follow suit in today's popular code-naming fad. eg. Whistler, Yamhill (what the heck!?), etc etc.
... it's pretty sweet"
Friend says: "yo dude... I just installed Merlot 1.9
Other Guy: "yeah.... it's pretty sweet man... but I can't wait for Sauvignon Blanc comes out. I hear there's gonna be some big changes in that one"
Friend says: "sweet"
Other Guy: "yeah... super sweet"
What's the niche? Web servers?
sic transit gloria mundi
Except of course, that running Windows kinda defeats the point of not running Windows.
sic transit gloria mundi
Exactly my feelings. This incesssant desire to chase the dragon's tail instead of forging past it and leave it behind continues to baffle me. As much as I hate the over used term "innovate" - where is the innovation in the Linux community?
You cannot win by following, only by leading.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
I felt the article dealt mainly with removing the need for dual-booting for more and more existing Linux users. Why would a Windows user go to the trouble of installing Linux+WINE just to get what they already have (working Win32 apps and games)?
I (and probably other Windows users) will switch when Linux outperforms Windows where it counts - when it does what they have come to expect a PC to do: when it installs without much hassle, when their hardware works immediately or with minimal driver hunting, when they are almost guaranteed a supply of games (remember the success of Commodore 64s?) and when the applications are simple to install and use, and are compatible with files made by colleagues and friends.
I love the idea of WINE. I love the idea of Linux. I've tried Linux. Unfortunately though, I still use Windows because near-enough isn't really good enough. WINE is handy, but a 'Killer App' needs to be something more than simply matching the competition - it has to be the one thing you don't get anywhere else.
"If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
One reason: Lotus Notes. Granted, there are also open source alternatives out there (such as for instance Tutos), but that doesn't help you much if you are an employee at a company which uses Notes. Wine allows you to run Linux on your workstation while still being able to access the corporate document and discussion databases.
Of course, it is in IBM's power to show their true commitment to Linux by making this point moot with a native Linux Notes client, but for some weird reason they don't want to, despite their Linux commitment in many other areas...
Say no to software patents.
Okay, I'm a newbie when comes to Wine's technical side, but what happens when Microsoft releases the .0.1 release of their APIs specifically to break Wine compatibility?
Or what happens when Microsoft updates their EULA to read: "this program must run on an officially licensed Microsoft Operating System" or starts requiring vendors who want to use the XP logo on their boxes to start including that wording also?
Heck, they could just put it all under the guise of their new security stance.
I'm not trolling, these are all possibilities when playing with MS! You can bet they've got contigency plans all ready for the day when Wine becomes a threat.
...while Lindows, Wine, and Mozilla are all struggling to get to the vaunted 1.0 mark, two copies of Windows XP are being sold every second.
If that doesn't motivate you to contribute to these projects and help get them out the door, I don't know what will.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
...if the aim is to get converts. How many people converted to the mac because of softPC? I personally don't know any.
Remember OS/2? One of their claims was "it's a better DOS than DOS" and it was true. OS/2 could run DOS with multiple versions and multiple configurations. But did it take off? No. And one of the reasons is that it didn't have the software support. People don't want emulators, they want native applications.
Emulators are good for that application or two that you still need to run aside from your main software. The key is to make that "main software" Linux software and get the users to like them better than the Windows software.
If people want to run Windows apps, they'll run Windows.
You see, the real world works like this:
1) You're running Linux at your workplace.
2) You get mail from your valued client: "Please find our budget attached". There is an Excel file as an attachment.
3) You try opening the file with StarOffice. It won't open, however, since it contains complex graphs and macros (happens to me all the time).
4) Are you REALLY going to mail your client and ask him not to mail you Microsoft Office attachments???
Grow up. Most people HAVE to use Microsoft at workplace. Not everyone is a network/sys-admin.
One of the major weaknesses of Wine so far is that there's no support for Windows-only drivers. For example, Matrox Marvel G200 MJPEG video capture. This wipes out whole classes of applications - multimedia, OCR and others.
Fortunately, VMWare version 3 now supports USB, which can allow installation of drivers for USB hardware.
I can envisage that many people will follow an integration path like:
1) Mainly using Windows, add a linux partition
2) Learn the Linux apps, often boot Windows partition
3) Progressively migrate Windows apps to VMware under Linux, less frequent use of Windows partition
4) Progressively migrate Windows apps from under VMware into the Wine environment
5) Progressively convert data from Windows apps to formats usable by native Linux apps
Hopefully, at some point along this path, one can delete the Windows partition, and later the VMware box, and use only native Linux apps or run some Windows apps under wine.
Realistically, I would hope to be completely free of my Windows partition in 6-12 months, and free of VMware in 6-18 months.
But the time to really 'pop the cork' on the Wine is when it supports native Windows device drivers, which will be a feat indeed!
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
The only reason I need Windows for (until I get a Mac) is music. There are excellent Windows/Mac apps with poor OSS alternatives yet. :(
So I tried various versions of Wine and VMWare.
Success was poor on Wine except with sample editors.
It was way better with VMWare except for one thing : latency. Although software was properly working, the sound card output had far too much latency. I guess the problem would be the same with any Windows emulator. The emulation part involves latency, especially when it comes to delivering signal to hardware.
So music makers will have to stick with a native Windows partition
{{.sig}}
As a journalist and writer, I can tell you.
It's because publishers and everyone else in the publishing chain work in Word. No, import/export filters are not good enough -- because it's not just about the text. For example, Word has "revision marks" -- a system of keeping track of editorial changes to a document, who made them, when they were made, etc. An editor can easily step through each edit in a document, look at both the pre- and post-edit versions of a sentence, and certify the one of two (or of three or of four) versions which works best in context.
This type of data is not preserved across imports/exports because StarOffice, Applix, KWord, etc. have no concept of such a feature, so they have no reason to try to import the revision data; they just discard all of it (including the entire stream of edits and ceritifications from editors, co-authors, etc) and import the document in original form. WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux *did* have such a feature and imported it more or less correctly... but WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux has been pulled from the market.
This is only one specific instance, but it is not an isolated one. There are many other Word features which are closely tied to file format and vice-versa, and if the entire publishing chain of your publication or press has tied its processes and equipment to Word, you're not going to change this by waltzing in one day and saying "I use Linux so we're all switching to OpenOffice, you'll have to find new ways of doing W, X, Y and we'll now have to hire someone to do Z because OpenOffice won't do it!"
The features just aren't there for most Linux applications (even GIMP, when compared to Photoshop or Corel Draw, comes up far short), and at the same time, the inertia of Windows-world applications is there, in spades. The same can easily be said for other MS Apps. MS Office is a great product. The only general-purpose competitor which comes close is from Corel, and has been discontinued for Linux users.
That is not to say that I think Wine is a useful product. I've tried it over and over and over again for half a decade and it has never worked for anything other than Solitaire. I don't see the point in releasing a 1.0 version when it still won't install Internet Explorer (any version), MS Office (any version) or Photoshop (any version). Why bother?
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I personally think Linux must stand on its own merits, not just having the ability to run emulation so you can run Windows apps.
By running everything as a Linux-native app, you get the stability of Linux almost all the way through.
The biggest issue holding up Linux is the lack of Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) support, which would give Linux the ability to do true automatic system configuration and updating, not to mention truly functional power saving ability. I do believe that one of goals of the eventual Linux 2.6.x kernel will include ACPI support.
THE absolute advantage for game developers are the WINElets which they are working on here. It will make rewriting game code unnessecary and, remember, WINE Is Not an Emulator, so i don't really expect speed issues in the future !
" WINE does not yet support applications that use Windows XP-only features such as .NET. White thinks that as XP-only applications start to appear, WINE will have to accommodate them, but he doesn't see this as a major issue yet, since those applications are few.
.
This is not a calling of doom for windows users that want to convert_because_a lot of windows users don't want to buy the newest version of windows, even future Service Packs. Especialy small buisnesses because they have to focus their resources on growth and survival. So since M$ has announced that it will stop supporting Win98X in 2003, this might be the window of oppertunity to switch them over to a more sensable alternative."
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
"I really think that with the advent of StarOffice 6.0, Mozilla 1.0, and Ximian Connector, combined with a great, well-refined WINE, we may finally see the beginnings of the Year of Linux on the Desktop(TM)"
while i seriously hope you are right, it isn't merely a question of "equaling" the features of MS Office or of the Windows Desktop (Bleech!), or bringing native Win32 code over to the LINUX platform (look at the history of Win emulators on the Mac), even if WINE is perfect, thunking is not free, performance wise, and Bill's Thing will be shipping on MILLIONS of new PCs every month for the foreseeable future
we in the community have to offer a significantly better user experience, with LINUX native apps
we come in strong on price, free support and passion
we come in weak on marketing, abilty to tie our LINUX products to a "Big Name" tech provider (like AOL) and we have no ability to make the OEM Mafia (Dell, Compaq, Gateway, HP, Sony, et al) dual boot enable any large portion of their new machines
also, "The Curse of *NIX", which i have been dealing in my work since before the widespread release of SRV, continues to haunt us....especially in the area of idiot proof desktop setup and functionality
X continues to be less than perfect and hard to get going really smoothly without SOME user experience and intervention
...and although I have great hopes that in the mid-term plus (18-36 months) the battle/conflict/thing between Gnome and KDE will result in KILLER desktop functionality, in the short term, the desktop setup continues to be a real weakness in selling LINUX to anyone not comfortable with at least a little diddling, twiddling and fiddling with their OS setup (and that is a LOT of people)
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
If I'm mistaken and some feature of revision marks doesn't work as expected let me know and I'll go bring it up in one of the OpenOffice lists.
As for the other issues, list them here or (better yet) tell the folks at OpenOffice.org. They are very open to comments on improving the editor as well as any other part of the suite.
Revision marks quick how-to:
Export -- File...Save as... and choose one of these;
Microsoft Word 95
Microsoft Word 6
Import -- File...Open (choose document from list; default is show "All" files)
Since you are in journalism, I'll leave it up to you to get Sun to fork over a copy of StarOffice 6 beta. The last open beta closed at the end of 2001. The next release is expected to be 6.0 final (or close to it).
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
There are some valid points but most of this is basic histeria from a scared user, scared about change. Only 5 years ago you didnt have all those fancy tools and yet journalism and publishing got done, we didint have and extra 3-4 employees to do something that the software does now that is a minor neato feature. I have family closely tied with a major journalistic company and Microsoft word is not the defacto standard. It may be in your world, but in the world I have ties to it doesn't. as the typesetting machines that are ran by the IBM mainfraime in the basement cannot read a doc file. they read raw EBCDIC files which is kinds of a polish latin version of ASCII. As a It admin and manager I have had all version of microsoft word in my office changed to default save as a rtf file. this did not cause us to have to hire another person, it didnt instantly throw us into a world of incompatability. and in fact everyone barely noticed. at the last all-employee meeting I explained in short how RTF files gives us a distinct business advantage over DOC files and I noew even hear the sales force asking customers to send RTF files and then explaining how it's a professional advantage to use that format.. so it's even spreading outside my office.
I also give the users a choice, Office 2000 and Open office is installed on every workststion. and every employee has been told that I will give them free legal copies of the office suite (open office) for home use if they ask. I have given away 20 copies now, and the use of power point has dropped by 40% and continues to drop. (if they make their presentation at home It's not powerpoint!)
Microsoft word has ome nice features. but nobody takes you serious with the picture you paint of doom and gloom that will happen if word went away. Hell Journalism and writers did their jobs well onmanual typewriters! in fact the best journalism on the planet was done on them 40 years ago.... and the world has yet to match the quality of thought put into the journalism of the 1960's - 1970's.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
WINE is, in theory, capable of running any application written for Windows 98/Me
To quote Homer Simpson:
Sure, in theeoory. In theory communism works... In theory.
Intersting, however OS 9 apps run in a box of sorts. They can take over the screen, but it is clear when an app is running in classic mode. It is much the same as where VMWare could take you.
WINElib has the potential to do for Linux what Carbon did for OS X.
Carbon is an OS X native API that is based on the classic API. Additionally, Carbon was ported to OS 8 and OS 9. This meant that you could have been developing for Carbon the past few years and having OS X native applications that ran under Mac OS. For extra fun, they could have FAT binaries (I think that I'm using the term right, they had something like that) where they could include a Classic PPC binary, Classic 68K binary, and Carbon OS X binary all as one application.
WINElib is interesting, you can build against WINElib and compile for Windows and Linux, supporting both platforms with native applications. The trick is a strategy that lets you target both OSes for now, it lets you keep your Windows market and expand into the Linux market as it matures.
Personally, I think that Apple should work on getting WINElib to be Aquafied. Then you could build targetting WINElib for Windows/OS X, and Linux or other UNIXes. Obviously you'd hate to make Win32 the standard API, but Apple dropped it when they dropped OpenSTEP for Win32, so oh well.
Alex