Slashdot Mirror
Tiny Linux PDA: Filewalker
senseimoron writes: "Check out the Filewalker, a new Linux-based handheld, with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters. It is too difficult to explain, just checkout the site. I'd be interested to see how well the interface works." The English link may be more useful. From the price listed on the site, it would sell for US$560.
Seems like my thumb would fall off in a week if I had to turn a wheel for every character I typed. Does this input method have any advantages other than it being one-handed?
Your signatures belong to me.
With 649,- EUR, I think it's a bit on the expensive
side. Especially since I'm perfectly content with a
paper address book.
But if I can install my own sowftware easily, it
could still be a neat toy.
I've heard about this type of input before. Anything other than a stylus and I'm happy. What I'm really waiting for is direct brain input.
"Hello. I am your PDA. You can call me Wintermute."
A revolutionary instead of evolutionary means of inputting data. Whether it works or not - this is a good thing.
.
I have no doubts, that it will require a few days of toying around to get accustomed to, but since you have 3 characters at your disposal for every turn of the wheel, I think the wheel-spinning will not break your thumb off.
Imagine for a moment that you have become proficient at "typing" in data in this way. You have the use of your second hand for other things like holding the phone, etc. when using this device.
No one should bear any illusions that this thing will have any kind of mainstream success. It's obviously designed as a geek toy
Too bad I recently bought a m505 or else I'd give this thing a try. I'm not too fond of the palms graffiti either, on long texts I use the pop-up screen keyboard instead.
I mean it is all very nice and all that they have Linux running a PDA but what use is it to me if it can only sync to a Windows desktop.
All the Linux based PDAs seem to have the same problem... Windows desktop only. I can understand that it requires a Windows desktop for economic reasons. I already have a PalmVx that has several Linux desktop environments to choose from and they work fine.
-DU-...etc...
"Don't sweat the technique."
Well, I don't know you can't really tell from the pictures, but it might be that you just push up and down buttons like a joystick. I think turning a wheel for each letter would probably get old quick.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
You can download and view the source to WinCE, but you can't legaly do anything with it.
:P). I mean the whole point of a PDA is to have something 'cool' really, and for some people linux does make it cooler. If people are willing to buy these things, why not use Linux?
But anyway, that question is kind of stupid. I mean you could have asked the same thing about linux on the desktop a couple of years ago, I mean we had macOS and windows and Unix for people to use.
And I think that the really important thing to remember here is that, for the most part, PDAs are toys. Even the loweliest, most out of date used Palm could do just about anything you really needed organizer wise. People buy these things because they're fun. Sure, they might not admit it, but you really don't need a PC you can fit in your pocket that can play MP3s and Divx movies. People want those things because it's fun.
And Linux is fun for some people. It's also cheaper then licensing WinCE or Palm (and it gets you free play on slashdot
(Btw, I just hate people who always have to ask 'do we really need this' I mean, do we really need anything do we need video game systems, or fast cars or DVD players?)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
This was my question, too. I use the Rex 6000, and its touchscreen is a big saving grace in the usability department.
Its actually alot faster to use button combinations rather than a roller wheel. You don't need alot of buttons to do that, either.
Or, if you want a good but portable keyboard, use a one handed one:
http://www.halfkeyboard.com/
Either of these concepts would work much better in a PDA than a roller wheel - where you have multiple rolls then a press for each character. Unlike every other alternative (graffiti, keyboard, half keyboard) this one takes multiple actions per character, and you would have to look at the screen to know which character you were at because its state dependent.
My 2 cents worth
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
Do they make one for lefties? Or is it just like everything else in this right-hand centric world?
Damnit, Jim, I'm an anarchist, not a F@#$!^& doctor!
I wasn't talking about the translation. I was talking about the story posted on Slashdot:
senseimoron writes: "Check out the Filewalker, a new Linux-based handheld, with a very unique (one-handed) means of inputting characters. It is too difficult to explain, just checkout the site..."
That's why Slashdot has editors. They are supposed to fix errors in story submissions, not just post them with spelling and grammer errors in place.
Whether they should have hired professional translators as this is a business, is another topic.
And on that other topic, yes, they should have hired professional translators or, at least, a professional, English-speaking editor. I get offended by companies that want money from a market but won't even hire a single native speaker from that market to edit their copy. Some of the Asian computer manufacturers are particularly bad in this respect. They set up offices in the U.S. but will not hire non-Asians or even Asians for whom English is a primary language. If you actively discriminate against English-speaking Americans in your hiring practices, then don't expect me to give you my money.
A friend of mine with an Asian last name interviewed at one of those firms. When he arrived, they just started speaking Chinese to him. Once he told them that he did not speak Chinese, the interview (for a support job in the U.S.) was over. There is something very wrong when an American is denied a job in the U.S. because he speaks English.
This input type depends on visual feedback. You have to choose the character among a list by scrolling throw it. A typical character selection would look like this:
1. You look at the currently selected char.
2. Is it your desired character?
Yes: Press the selection key, think of the next character, and restart at 1.
No: You estimate the alphabetical distance between the currently selected char and your desired. If it's "far", hit the scrollwheel fast. If it's "near", hit the scrollwheel gently. Start at 1.
The problem is, you will always have to look at the display while you're searching, which makes the process dependent on visual feedback. Just think back to the times when you where new to QWERTY (or for those who can't remember, think of the times while trying DVORAK). You were looking at the keyboard searching for your key to press, ackwardly slowing your lexical progress.
The revolution in typing speed has accoured that moment as you don't depend on the visual feedback any longer, freeing a lot of mental processing time for hand, finger, eye coordination.
The scrollwheel is as slow as my mobile phone sms writing interface.
Maybe it's "very off-topic" then?
sic transit gloria mundi
Oh good grief! Well, Windows is pretty well established on the desktop and some server markets - does that mean we Linux dorks should just go home and stop bugging people with our silly ideas?
Handheld devices are becoming more and more powerful (I read that in a 2002 prediction list, so I think it's true), as such they will need to utilize "real" operating systems at some point (when they are roughly equvalent to todays desktops, lets say), WindowsCE is a nice intermediate step, as are the Linux variants for portable devices currently being used - it's just that the "evolution" path for Linux seems a bit easier than with the Windows paradigm; but what do I know.
Oh, and I didn't know that WindowsCE was an entirely new codebase written from the ground up for portables and had nothing to do with WindowsOtherWise. (I don't think I have to mention that WindowsCE is about as Open Source - yes, with capital O and S - as my ass, from the Linux perspective of course)
sic transit gloria mundi
What's left? Voice is the only thing that really comes to mind, but that has obvious limitations. The newer "natural handwriting" recognizers are a step up from the Palm things, but I for one would not be able to use one since even I can't read my handwriting (plus I write far too slowly anyway).
So are we stuck until a way is figured out to stick in a 1394 port at the base of the neck? Any innovative suggestions?
sic transit gloria mundi
As opposed to MS and Windows, where you have ME, 2000, XP home (which has crippled networking), XP professional, wince. There's not much difference.
The "fragmentation" is real of course, but it won't make any difference at the moment. Where it will make a difference is in about 5 years when instead of syncing with their laptops, people will want to sync with other peoples' handhelds. More than just flashing your business card to someone 5 feet away. People will want to share whole documents and calendars among different handhelds.
Now at that point an open standard becomes necessary, probably xml would be the best method of storing the data. But even then it won't matter if the display is run through gtk, qt, x framebuffer or through the windows display. The important thing will be that the data can be transmitted.
Of course this could be needed now, I don't use a handheld.
[trying to drag this ontopic while making an offtopic point]
In one sense, *everything* is very unique; even two things "of the same kind" will differ to some small degree. Graffiti and whatever WinCE uses (Jot?), and Xerox unistrokes are all "unique", but all similar; yet unistrokes is "more unique" since it doesn't easily map to the printed characters each stroke represents. So get off your high horse, it makes *perfect* sense to talk about this being "very unique".
Even more on topic: on the one hand, it's good when Linux proves itself in the embedded market. On the other hand, handhelds are *incredibly* UI driven relative to other platforms, and as far as I know those UIs tend to be propiertary one-offs. Only geeks will likely be in a position to appreciate the Linux-ness.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
The Filewalker is definately interesting, but the text input method seems like it would be a pain. The biggest drawbacks are:
An interesting alternative would be a device like this that used a chording keyboard. These were pioneered by a British company called Microwriter who built a device called the Agenda back in the early '80s. This had a text entry system that uses five keys - different combinations ("chords") of keys generate different letters. It takes a while to learn the chords, but once you know them you can type one-handed, relatively rapidly and without having to look at the screen. Chording keyboards may also be less liable to cause RSI.
For more information about chording keyboards, see this FAQ
Sailing over the event horizon
but does linux really belong in the PDA market?
You tell me: Why is *VERY* new PDA-design based on Linux? I don't see any new companies putting out WinCE or PalmOS based designs, all choose Linux.
If you start from scratch, Linux is the way to go.
PalmOS and WindowsCE are already very established, and people trust/use them. Also, these OSes were MADE for PDAs, instead of being ported.
WinCE was not made for PDAs in BillGates wet dreams it should have been good for all kinds of embedded applications.
But it's correct, PalmOS and WinCE are established and for a company already producing WinCE or PalmOS - based PDAs, a switch might not be worth it.
However, as I said, all companies entering the PDA-market are choosing Linux.
Is it the fact that it is open source, although windows ce is already open source?
You are funny.
WinCE is not open-source, there are just some parts open (an uncompilable source is pretty useless) and it's not gratis. (Although MS has dropped the price in the last years)
And on top of that both the partly-open-sourceness and the relatively cheapness can change anytime. (Hint: Probably as soon as you became dependent on it)
I know you can run more applications with linux on the pda, but how many applications do you actually need for your pda that are not availible for windows ce and palmos?
None. So?
I am sure that hackers will enjoy it, but is there really a market for linux pdas?
The market does not care about that. A Linux-PDA won't look any different than any other for a consumer.
The developers care.
You've sort of got it, but not quite. You scroll the wheel first, then click the selected button. So there are only two operations required. I don't think this would be slow at all. As long as I was looking at the screen, I imagine I could get over 20 wpm on this thing within a half hour of picking it up. Thats vastly superior to grafitti, thats for sure
I own a Sony cell phone with one of these jog-wheels, and personally I see this as a great input method. You can easily go up to 8 clicks with an easy roll, so going from the (abc) to (pqr) is easy. I also own a Palm, and I still have to look at it while writing in grafity because it's so easy to mess up a character. So what we have here is a solution that only uses one hand, even if it no easier to input text. Any of you out there that drive/talk on the phone/smoke/use palm/drink coffee will be able to appreciate that!
Bah!
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
So get off your high horse, it makes *perfect* sense to talk about this being "very unique".
You are simply wrong and here's the evidence to prove it:
Common Errors in English Usage
Some Common Grammar and Usage Mistakes in Undergraduate Philosophy Papers
Bowdoin College -- A Style Guide
The Dirty Dozen
Additional Writing Hints (first entry)
Unique and Other Absolute Modifiers
See Curmudgeon's Corner...our soapbox where we vent our spleen regarding abuses of the English language.
I am a published writer and experienced editor, so you can stop making a fool of yourself and let this drop. Or you can amuse me further by trying to come up with some explanation of why you believe that you are right.
If that scroll wheel clicks into place a little when you change positions, I could see 'touch-typing' with it. You'd just have to get used to the relative positions of the 'keys' via scroll wheel position. Not too terribly different from touch-typing on a keyboard, I would think.
But then, we don't know what the thing feels like yet, so we can't really make that call.
I am a published writer and experienced editor, so you can stop making a fool of yourself and let this drop. Or you can amuse me further by trying to come up with some explanation of why you believe that you are right.
Like a lot of words in English, unique has more than one meaning. As well as "the only one of its kind", it can also mean "extraordinary". It is probably this meaning that was been used in the original article, and thus the "very" modifier was legitimate.
The problem with a lot of these rules (such as "no modifiying an absolute") is they assume that a word has a fixed meaning. In the absence of a controlling authority for English words do change their meaning - look at the original meanings of awful, obnoxious, or nice for example.
So, lets apply the only test that means anything - what message was communicated in this case: "A very unique (onehanded) method of inputting characters". This is a PDA we're talking about, and anyone with any knowledge knows that all PDAs have a unique method of inputting characters - for patent reasons if nothing else. However, as most also know, most of the methods have similarities. In this case the writer is saying to me that this PDA has a new input system that is quick distictive from the systems used in other PDAs.
So the message was transmitted clearly. And for bonus points he managed to seriously annoy some language mavens.
You are on the bus, there's 60 people around you, each one is trying to talk into their PDA - that's the kind of thing I meant. Basically they'd not only be hard to use in any public place, but also pretty rude.
sic transit gloria mundi
No, it sounds to me like he wasn't hired because he didn't speak Chinese.
Picture yourself entering the Chinese market. Wouldn't you look for locals who spoke English as well as Chinese?
Obviously if that was the case they should have advertised that they were looking for bilingual individuals. This way they wasted your friend's time as well as their own, and they owe him an apology. On the other hand, maybe the translator they hired to write the ad screwed it up, and since they couldn't read the ad they didn't know.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
Unusual. Strange. Bizarre. Unprecedented (see, one could even use superlatives). Alien technology. Secret of the Ancients. A Better Way. The One True Way. Un-fucking-believably weird, dude.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
It's not really the background noise that I am worried about - it's the being a jackass who constantly walks around seemingly talking to himself. And people will only be getting more and more hand-held devices of various sorts.
sic transit gloria mundi
Well, there's always "subvocalization." I'm not sure what it is, but it sure shows up in a lot of sci-fi books.
-Jeff
-Vercingetorix
"Necessitas non habet legem." -St. Augustine
Please see my comment on this:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=25075&cid=2724 965
The gist of it is that Linux is suited to many different types of devices. Windows CE is not by any stretch of the imagination "Open Source". And it is definitely not Free Software.
As another poster has mentioned what good is source that you can't even legally compile? The only purpose it serves is that if someone were to look at it for purposes of reimplementing parts of it correctly (e.g. for Wine) they'd get a big nasty fat lawsuit slapped on 'em by MS. No thanks. Couple this with the fact that you must sign up for an MS passport to get this stuff and thus they know who downloaded it you can rest assured that MS will most definitely go after anyone who releases rewrites of Windows code after having viewed this.
I've looked at your user info page, trying to find anything actually indicating that you are in fact Charles Petzold. At least I suppose you don't hide the fact that you work for MS. And if you really want to know why people want to use Linux for everything then start using it. Start programming with it. From the sounds of your other comments you have played with Linux programming but you seem to fail to understand the fundamental differences in architecture. That works both ways. I am writing a program right now for work and am really pissed about all this overlapped IO crap. Why isn't there just a damn "select()" call? Why can't everything be a file descriptor? What is this WaitForMultipleObjects crap they have tried to pass of as select but can't even because for all intents and purposes you really /HAVE/ to go multithreaded in some cases because you can't just add something to your GUIs main loop such as "when data is available to read from the pipe, return a message and process as usual". Or maybe there is but I sure as hell haven't found a way.
Anyway, enough ranting about the broken WinAPI for now. I really hope you find some time to actually use and program on a Linux system. You won't look back.
The problem with a lot of these rules (such as "no modifiying an absolute") is they assume that a word has a fixed meaning.
The word "unique" is unique. There is not some other word that means "one of a kind." If we allow the semi-literate amoung us to redefine words unchallenged, then English will become a less precise means of expressing thoughts. And that would be a shame.
For that reason, I will stick with the usage and definition of the word "unique" accepted by the vast majority of educated English speakers. If you prefer to use the underwear-clad suspects on Cops as your guide to English grammer, there is nothing I can do about it.
So the message was transmitted clearly. And for bonus points he managed to seriously annoy some language mavens.
If that kind of thing makes you happy, I suggest that you shut off your computer and, instead of reading Slashdot, watch an episode of the Jenny Jones show. You can revel in sentences like "She think she all that," "He ain't shit" and "She all, like, getting up in his face and stuff."
heh, come to think of it, this is /. - we are home!
sic transit gloria mundi
English is arguably the world's best language: It has shamelessly borrowed from other languages as needed (or perhaps just wanted) and as a result it allows for an expressiveness and granularity of meaning simply not possible in other languages. English is enormously complex, but that complexity allows unmatched specificity in distinguishing shades of meaning, an attribute that turns out to be tremendously valuable in the real world.
English is a lot like Unix/Linux in this respect - Thomas Scoville wrote an excellent paper a few years ago on the subject of why a love of English is almost a prerequisite for mastering Unix: Elements of Unix Style. A love of English is perhaps one of the best predictors for aptitude in Unix-land. Those that can't (or don't) write well will never really develop fluency and the ablity to effortlessly "think in Unix" that marks the true masters.
On the other hand, the same things that give English its strength have produced inconsistencies that vex, flummox, and perplex non-English speakers, especially in the realm of pronunciation. Try this one out - I'd bet most US college students can't get through it without being tripped up at least once or twice (actually, given the general illiteracy of the college grads I've talked with lately, I'm certain of it): English is tough stuff. Perhaps I should make reading this part of my interview process. At least it would filter out those that think technical skills are the only thing required for success, and the others that fail to recognize that it's far easier to take a good communicator and teach them technical skills than the other way around...
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
The word "unique" is unique. There is not some other word that means "one of a kind."
Apart from "singular".
For that reason, I will stick with the usage and definition of the word "unique" accepted by the vast majority of educated English speakers.
Nonsense - look up a dictionary (Merriam-Webster for example) and you will find more than one meaning for unique, and one of them (in Webster's) is "unusual". Oh - and read the usage note.
If you prefer to use the underwear-clad suspects on Cops as your guide to English grammer, there is nothing I can do about it.
No - I'll stick with such illiterate yokels such as J.D. Salinger and the editors of dictionaries.
Even when the meaning is as an absolute there is still a case for modifiers. Take "equal" for example - when used in the absolute sense things are either equal or they are not - the concept of "more equal than" seems absurd. Now read Animal Farm - "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others." This gets across succinctly and powerfully the message. Modifiers with "unique" can be used in a similar way.
BTW "grammer" is spelt "grammar". I wouldn't normally mention such a typo, but a) it's the second time you've made this error, b) you are supposed to be a experienced editor, and c) you are the one being picky about language.
If that kind of thing makes you happy, I suggest that you shut off your computer and, instead of reading Slashdot, watch an episode of the Jenny Jones show.
A bit tricky, as they don't broadcast that in my country.
Apart from "singular".
"Singular" does include the meaning "one of a kind" but is not limited to that as is "unique." It's really not the same word. Could you imagine someone saying "those shoes are singular" rather than "those shoes are unique"?
No - I'll stick with such illiterate yokels such as J.D. Salinger and the editors of dictionaries
While there are some educated people who subscribe to the belief that "unique" can mean "unusual", they are in the minority. Go to www.dictionary.com. They include the following alternate definition:
b. Informal. Unusual; extraordinary: spoke with a unique accent.
A news story on Slashdot is not "informal" -- or at least it should not be.
As to the usage guide, it reads:
Usage Note: For many grammarians, unique is the paradigmatic absolute term, a shibboleth that distinguishes between those who understand that such a term cannot be modified by an adverb of degree or a comparative adverb and those who do not. These grammarians would say that a thing is either unique or not unique and that it is therefore incorrect to say that something is very unique or more unique than something else. Most of the Usage Panel supports this traditional view. Eighty percent disapprove of the sentence Her designs are quite unique in today's fashions.
While it goes on to say that some people argue that it is synonymous with "unusual", they warn the reader to be ready for "censure" if they use it that way with a modifier.
BTW "grammer" is spelt "grammar". I wouldn't normally mention such a typo, but a) it's the second time you've made this error, b) you are supposed to be a experienced editor, and c) you are the one being picky about language.
Grammar is one of those words with which I have a mental block. No matter how many times I discover I have spelled it incorrectly, I can never remember the next time which spelling I discovered was incorrect. Even experienced writers and editors are not immune to mental blocks. Perhaps your correction will help make it stick this time.
By the way, "spelt" is hardy wheat grown mostly in Europe for livestock feed. Just kidding. I know it's an alternative to "spelled."
While Graffiti and other character recognition schemes (e.g. Jot) annoy the snot out of me for anything other than entering names and dates, I find the most usable, consistent, and fast, both in the long run and today as far as input into a PDA is still real handwriting recognition. We're talking about the Apple Newton MP2x00 or a WinCE device with ParaGraph's CalliGrapher installed. Having used both quite a bit, it's the only way to go. It's natural and quick to write both natural language texts and even code, depending on the language.
:-/ I just did an informal test on my iPAQ 3150, and I got around 45 minutes/min. I wrote for two minutes, and then counted the words, excluding half of the tiny words (a, it, is, I) and divided by two. Not bad, considering that it requires no training. That 45/min includes fixing mixing mistakes. My Newton is be a little bit slower at it, which can be attributed to a number of things.
;)
I find that writing a language of BCPL-syntax lineage like C or NewtonScript is a pain in the ass to write in HWR. However, languages like Smalltalk and LISP (the languages luckily [for a number of reasons] I use the most often) work very well as translated from handwriting to text. Sometimes a opening paren is thought of as a C, but both the Newton and CalliGrapher have a tiny punctuation keyboard that works great for this. Writing in C or Perl may be a little harder, as both the syntax tends to be more silly, and the variables and function naming conventions often are very non-natural-language. (e.g., Scheme's string->number function, or Smalltalk's asNumber are easily recognized as composite words rather than something like atoi in C.)
And yes, they keep up with messy handwriting. You should see mine.
It's no wonder I can manage to take all of my class notes on a PDA with actual HWR, but you don't see people with Palm OS devices in a graduate level college course taking their notes.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad