Looking Closely at the Restrictions of Linux on the PS2

Hal-kun writes: "I wrote an interesting article about Sony's upcoming Linux distro for the PS2 and some intellectual property concerns I have with it. It's an intresting look at how Sony limits the ability to have full access to the system, yet being able to keep it under GPL."

Comments

Bravery

[jeremyp]

"I wrote an interesting article" - very brave, just aching to be flamed :-)

I think I'll read it now.

how they limit it

[awing0]

They can release the whole source for their linux OS. The playstation and playstation 2 have copywrite protection that searches for "bad" areas of the disc, know as the boot sector. Domestic CD-RW drives cannot perfectly duplicate these discs, so you have to "modify" your console to get it to boot these discs. Sony has recently been going after the makers of the devices that allow you to boot CD-R's and DVD-R's. So, most people, even with the PS2 linux source, couldn't use it without buying Sony's disc. They could also make it so big that you can't fit it on a 700MB disc, being a DVD release only, which would further prevent most from getting it for free.

Re:how they limit it

[Hougaard]

A couble of comments:

1) Its actually not "bad areas" that Sony is using with PS2 discs. They have encoded a sort of sub-signal onto the disc that bruners cannot recreate and more important, nor can asian "copy shops".

2) The PS1 discs has a error written into the TOC but CloneCD (aand others) deals with this without problems.

3) Developers can actually buy CDR's at Sony with the copyprotection on, so they can burn discs to test on non development equipment.

4) Sonys DVD-ROM's has the same copyprotection buildin as the CD's. So even with a DVD-R (Burned on the A03) you cannot boot with a modchip.

Re:how they limit it

[billcopc]

I don't know where you've been getting your information, but it is very possible to boot DVD-R discs in a modded PS2, however the technique is just a little awkward with the currently modchips (a double swap is required). I used to own an A03 (until the thing died and the shop had no stock to replace it - ugh!), and I've tried a few copies on my unit, they work fine.

I don't see why I couldn't just concoct a PS2Linux-based DVD-R with custom software, it should be fairly trivial.

Re:how they limit it

[Hougaard]

They do supply some CDRs to test. Your are correct that "debug PS2" exists. But as you know several version of the PS2 has already been produced. So to do compability tests these CDR's are used.

Re:how they limit it

[Hougaard]

Typo: withOUT a modchip ... Hehe.. My NEO4+Origa will boot DVD-R's directly. (A fine solutions until I get a Messiah clone).

Re:how they limit it

[zeno_2]

Im pretty amazed that Sony could have a blank cdr disk with copy protection already built in. I thought that it *had* to be done by a normal cd press (or whatever they use to mass produce cds) and not something you could put on a cdr (from what I know its different then a cd, the chemicals/metals used in the disk).

I could be wrong though =)

Red rag to a bull

[joebp]

In order to get Linux running on your PS2, you must boot the system using the PS2 Linux DVD. During boot, after all the copy-protection stuff is taken care of, the system lays down the Runtime Environment. This is basically a layer that hides access to the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit), the input/output processor, the hard drive, the CD/DVD-ROM system, the controllers, memory cards, USB, i.Link and other peripherals.

I doubt it'll be long before there's a work-around. Placing such limitations on a piece of hardware or software never works.

See: CSS, DVD regioning, Windows XP Product Activation, PS2 Copy Protection, eBook encryption, et al.

When will big business learn? If something is secured in a paranoid way, it will be overcome to a degree. The prize is too big.

Re:Red rag to a bull

[Erasmus Darwin]

"I doubt it'll be long before there's a work-around."

Yes, but it's worth considering how involved the work-around is. For example, in the realm of books, the copy-protection work-around involves the rather tedious task of either manually retyping the entire book or using a scanner and OCR software. It's doable, but it's certainly not easy.

Likewise, if the PS2 work-around is inconvenient enough (such as the traditional mod-chip solution, which requires playing around with solder and several hundred dollars worth of easily broken Playstation internal hardware), it's going to reduce the number of people that use it. Compare this to the Dreamcast, where the copy protection was (as I understand it) completely defeatable on the software level -- you just had to download games cracked by other people, and you were set. The only requirements were having broadband and a CD burner (or a nearby friend with the same).

Anyway, I suspect one of the reasons behind Sony's goofy intermediate device driver system is to keep the Linux kit from turning into a easy, modchip-free copy protection breaker. Without their (admittedly annoying) protection system in place, I could see the PS2 Linux system being used as a giant bootloader to get the PS2 to read and execute a burned game. There would still be other software hurdles to overcome (such as any in-game copy protection checks and chopping things down to fit on a CD), but those're the same purely software hurdles that're already regularly tackled by cracking groups.

In short, even though I don't like the protection mechanisms Sony's introduced, I can understand why they did it.

don't look now...

[buzban]

Linux and proprietary hardware do not go hand-in-hand.

...there are a lot of people gonna be *real* surprised at this part. Take for example embedded devices or internet appliances...

pun or just dumb???

[Mr. Quick]

Allow me to segway for a bit;

either that's funny, or he's just dumb.

Correction to the article

[neier]

(slightly off-topic)
Where you mention "pull price", that is actually the pre-tax price of whatever you are buying. In your case, 3%. The tax is now 5%; but the net info on the labels is the same.

In case anyone is curious, there are actual laws in Japan prohibiting the selling of books, magazines, and other things at a lower-than-retail cost. It falls under "protecting the cultural heritage" or something.

Re:Correction to the article

[markmoss]

there are actual laws in Japan prohibiting the selling of books, magazines, and other things at a lower-than-retail cost. The main thing about that is that it eliminates the used-book, etc., markets, except for collectables, so the publishers get to sell more new books at full price.

A very long time ago, some American book publisher tried to do that with a license agreement on the inside front cover. The courts slapped them down quite thoroughly, creating the "first sale doctrine." Pity that doesn't apply to software -- but now we have government of the people, by corporate stooges (both Republicans and Democrats), and for the corporations...

Re:Correction to the article

[neier]

The law is only for new stuff.

A couple of years back, one of the game mfrs (Nintendo?) lost a lawsuit that was trying to prevent used game sales.

Besides Hard Off, there's also House Off which sells furniture, clothes, etc.

Sony and Warranty

[sargon666777]

Personally I have had bad experiences with Sony. I have had 4 PS1's and 1 PS2, and a multitude of other Sony products. While typically for the most part the products are good the one thing that gets me about Sony is Warranty and support. Even the most minor thing is a instant void of warranty. I watched them void a friend of mines warranty on his PS2 becuase his fiber audio out cable wasnt made by Sony. I've also seen them do the same thing for the composite cable on the way out, and even power cables on the PS1. Not to mention non Sony memory cards, yes and even games. Which brings me to my point. If using anything non-Sony voids a warranty.... What happens if you add anything at all to the Linux distro they provide you with. Does that void your warranty? Or are they making exceptions in thier policy this time. I'm willing to bet they aren't making any exceptions.

Re:Sony and Warranty

[miracle69]

I've had a similar bad experience with Sony myself.

When I broke the screen on my palm (customer abuse), I called Palm and asked if they had a replace/exchange/repair type policy. They did. For 100 bucks, I got a refurbished palm shipped to me, then I shipped my broken one back to them. Very resonable policy for a portable electronic device.

I had broken my Clie screen (customer abuse) and called to see if they had a replace/exchange/repair type policy. They didn't. They were less than useless. Unfortunately, I had tied myself too much to their memory stick, so I had to get another Clie - but I picked up the cheapest one instead of trying to get some extra whiz-bang features.

I won't be buying other Sony PDAs in the future.

Palm - build a kick-ass next generation PDA and my money is yours.

Re:Sony and Warranty

[pherris]

Maybe Sony hasn't heard of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))?

This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of this law concerning aftermarket parts is that a manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the company's makers brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty.

pherris

Re:Sony and Warranty

[ncc74656]

When I broke the screen on my palm (customer abuse), I called Palm and asked if they had a replace/exchange/repair type policy. They did. For 100 bucks, I got a refurbished palm shipped to me, then I shipped my broken one back to them. Very resonable policy for a portable electronic device.

3Com accidentally sent me a Palm III to replace a PalmPilot Pro under that $100 replacement deal a few years ago (fell off my bike on the way to class and landed on my Palm...I thought I had lost my notes, but it worked well enough to sync everything out). I called to let them know of their error...they said I could keep it or, if I really wanted, I could send it back in and they'd send a PalmPilot Pro. Guess which option I took. :-)

I had broken my Clie screen (customer abuse) and called to see if they had a replace/exchange/repair type policy. They didn't. They were less than useless. Unfortunately, I had tied myself too much to their memory stick, so I had to get another Clie - but I picked up the cheapest one instead of trying to get some extra whiz-bang features.

A Sony car stereo that I bought a couple of years ago conked out after a few months. It was purchased as new old stock and I had a receipt for it (it was an older shaft-type unit with a reasonably decent feature set...you try to find something better than a $20 parts-store radio that'll fit a '77 Olds without hacking the dash to bits). I took it to a local repair shop for what I figured would be an in-warranty repair. To make a long story short, even with the dated receipt, Sony wouldn't honor its own warranty.

I won't be buying other Sony PDAs in the future.

If I were you, I wouldn't buy anything Sony. They might've made decent stuff in the past (my dad has an open-reel tape deck that's almost as old as I am that still works AFAIK), but Sony seems to be more about image and style than functionality or making a product that'll hold up to at least normal use.

Re:Sony and Warranty

[King_TJ]

I made some other comments about Sony and quality just recently, in another Slashdot thread -- but I'll say it again here.

Sony makes so many different electronics products, it's really hard to avoid them completely. They have a few poor products out there (their portable CD Discman players come immediately to mind), but at any given time, they also make some really good stuff. Every review I've seen rates their camcorders as the best value on the market. (Canon usually comes in a close second.) The rule of thumb for their car audio has been "only buy the ES stuff, or else it'll be junk". 90% of the people complaining about problems with a Sony car stereo went with a cheaper (not ES designated) model. I have a pair of Sony home theater speakers I really like. I listened to quite a few, and these were the ones I liked the sound of best (within my budget, anyway).

Their warranties are way too short, and apparently, not well honored anyway. That is a downside -- but I'd be a fool to boycott everything Sony over it. I've got my money's worth out of my PS2 so far, and had no issues. If it does break and they won't fix it free, oh well. I can deal with it. It wasn't a multi-thousand dollar purchase or anything.

Re:here's a mirror in case the site gets slashdott

[Hes Nikke]

hear is a readable version (actuly it's more readable then the orignal!):
Linux for the PS2 and Sony's Intellectual Property

In a few months Sony Computer Entertainment of America will be releasing a version of Linux for their terribly popular Playstation 2. I can't help but to feel a little worried about this. Is Sony's PS2 Version of Linux Free, as in Freedom? Sony's never been one to be very forthcoming when it comes to giving their intellectual property away for free. Anyone familiar with my Playstation Documentation Project know that I have a past with Sony. Thankfully only by proxy. Not to go into outrageous details, but my documentation came about from a bet that I had with a Sony representative. It was during the first volleys of Sony's litigation with "Bleem!", a small two-man company that set out to make a commercial Playstation 1 (PSX) emulator for PC. Sony, at the time, was claming that the creation of the "Bleem!" violated countless patents, copyrights, and trade secrets. I, for one, thought the trade secret argument was a bunch of hooey. I speak and read Japanese and seen all kinds of documents about how the PSX functioned from both sides of the pond. Also homebrew developers and professionals were swapping notes in a wildly open mailing list that I had subscribed to. With this wealth of information in hand, I bet my Sony rep that I could peg about 75% of the internal architecture of the PSX without signing a Non-Discourse Agreement (NDA) with Sony, or using any official Sony documentation.

I still have no Idea how close I got, but from the kudos and pats on the back I have received, I must of gotten pretty darn close. I was also asked to be a witness for the Sony vs. Connectix trial to show that Sony's claims of trade secrets was a pretty moot point. Before I was called to trial , Sony bought the Virtual GameStation division from Connectix. That in itself also proves to me that the doc is a little more than just a bunch a numbers I pulled out of my butt.

After I published the doc, I kind of picked up intellectual property law as sort of a hobby. I figured that between Linux programming and studying Japanese linguistics, one more esoteric hobby couldn't hurt. I watched as intellectual property disputes raised issues that was supposedly solved over 100 years ago, but somehow it's different today simply because the media is digital now. I also watched as John Q. Public didn't care and continue not to do so. I also sit, bemused, as companies take advantage of this. In the future people won't care simply because "it was always like that"

So imagine my shock when I learned that Sony was releasing a version of Linux for the PS2 in Japan. I was so used to seeing Sony fight tooth-and nail for their intellectual property, especially when it came to their game console. Now here they gave giving away the keys to the store, or were they?

Allow me to segway for a bit;

When I lived in Japan from 1992-1996, I saw the state of intellectual property there first hand. For example, normal broadcast radio does not play top 40 hits. Actually any transmission of copyrighted songs over the air, even a sample, must have a royalty paid to the publisher. If you want to listen to music on the radio, you find an American military station broadcasting on base. Japanese singers also do not commonly own the copyright to their own songs, they couldn't give them away even if the wanted to. Concert recordings are also illegal. There is also royalties you have to pay for the subtle music played in department stores, doctor's offices, and on the phone when you are on hold. Videos are divided into "rental" and "non-rental" versions. The "rental" version commonly cost more to the rental house, and the non-rental version must be sold at a particular price point set by the manufacturer for an allotted amount of time. As I'm writing this I have three Japanese items published by Sony that I purchased during a recent jaunt to the country. The first is a concert video, next is a CD, and lastly a PSX game. Along the spine the video, written in big bold Japanese letters are the words "Rental Prohibited". It's also set at a price of 6,700 yen (about $67 USD at the time) with a "Pull Price" of 6,505 yen ($65) This second price is when Sony gives the store permission to "clear the shelves" and can then sell at that price without getting penalized. These are prices set by Sony.

The CD is set at 2,800 yen ($28) with a pull price of 2,718 yen (a buck cheaper) These prices were set until July 15, 1992. The CD was published in 1988. Lastly, my Japanese PSX game just set at a pull price of 5,800 ($58) It's up to the store to set something higher for profit

So now you could understand why I was so amazed to see Sony selling a Linux kit! Linux and proprietary hardware do not go hand-in-hand. What about all the trade secrets that Sony waged a war in order to protect? It wasn't adding up. Their last PSX "hobby system", the Net Yaroze, game with some pretty steep intellectual property requirements. They required you to sign a Non-Disclosure agreement, relinquish all copyright control to the programs you made to Sony, and you had to use statically linked run-time libraries that not only bloated code, but kept you fingers out of the hardware. You also had no access to the CD-ROM. You have to upload your code (no more than 2 meg, including the library) via a slow serial connection and execute remotely.

As more information came out about the PS2 Linux, I have found that even though they don't technically violate GPL, they are doing some pretty shifty things to make sure that their intellectual property is intact. From both the Japanese and English FAQs I have read, I have found out how they did it. Now I haven't played with the Japanese PS2 Linux system, but I've read Japanese reports. I'm also a Linux enthusiast, and though I can't claim I know every facet of the OS, I know how to roll my own distribution from scratch. What bothers me to no end, and the key to Sony's ability to keeping the PS2 locked out of even the most uber of superusers is the use of what called "The PlayStation 2 Runtime Environment"

This is how the Runtime Environment (RTE) works. In order to get Linux running on your PS2, you must boot the system using the PS2 Linux DVD. During boot, after all the copy-protection stuff is taken care of, the system lays down the Runtime Environment. This is basically a layer that hides access to the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit), the input/output processor, the hard drive, the CD/DVD-ROM system, the controllers, memory cards, USB, i.Link and other peripherals. The RTE does supply hardware looking hooks, an educated guess being faux-memory address and registers. Then the Linux kernel is loaded onto of this. There are Linux device drivers that accesses the Runtime Environment that are open source, but it's just a device driver calling in all actuality, another device driver that's closed.

What you can and can't do with the system is limited. You have no ability to read a normal PSX or PS2 memory card directly. For example you can't open a Final Fantasy X save, edit how much cash you have, and save it again. Through the RTE you can format a whole memory card(!) and mount it like an 8 meg hard drive, but that card would be worthless for saving normal PS2 games. Once you put the Linux formatted card without Linux running (i.e. you are in the browser) it's ask to reformat the card.

The RTE also not allow audio CDs to be identified. It also can tell if you have put in a CD-R or not (it can see a wobble track, which all CD-Rs have ) and likewise not allow the disk to be seen. A PS2 can read CD-Rs fine, the RTE is just doing copy protection first to make sure you can't. You will also have no access to the CSS portion of the MPEG decoder, but you can decode raw MPEG-4. Direct access to the Dolby subsystem is also denied. Anything dealing with region locks are also restricted.

The first DVD (The boot disk) has a Linux boot loader and the RTE on it. This disk is not allowed to be copied. It also has the manuals on it too, which I'm sure are also copyrighted and not allowed to be publicly distributed. The Linux kernel is on the second disk and also on the hard drive after it's installed.

In order to use a monitor, you must one that is "Sync on Green" . This means that the refresh rate is only in the green channel. The monitor must use that sync pulse to sync red and blue channels so they all get painted in the screen at the same time. The reason why you have to use that is because a PS2 can turn it's sync on green ability on and off. If you try and use the monitor adapter for playing PS2 games or watching DVDs, sync on green will be turned off and only the green channel will show up. Direct video output defeats Macrovision. Sony doesn't want you making copies of DVDs to tape.

Keep in mind that your network adapter is going to have a MAC address that Sony, no doubt, knows. Also removing the PS2 hard drive and attempting to mount in a PC will also likely not work and possibly damage the drive.

That's about it. Any questions or comments can be directed at me. I'm probably not going to pick up a Linux kit for my PS2 because I really can't afford it and I have a much more open version of Linux on my other PC. I'm not trying to dump on the system. I'm just trying to make people a little bit more aware. If I have anything wrong please correct me. Any negative comments must be processed through /dev/null before sending them me. ^_^

Back to home

halkun@execpc.com

The PS2 and the X-Box will both be sooo hacked

[buckrogers]

in no time flat. Before the end of the year we will have full access to all the hardware on both systems and have full system specs. And nothing either side does will have any effect on it.

I look forward to ripping DVD's on the PS2 using the hardware decoder, then using a software DIVX to recompress the video so that it would fit on a CD-R. For personal use only. If I want to watch a movie that I bought on some other format or on another hardware platform, then that is my business and allowed under fair use. It would be nice to stream the videos to any screen in the house.

I had a lot of hopes for the indrema, but all to naught. Maybe a hacked Xbox, or hacked PS2 could be the indrema and be a great platform for developing Linux based gaming. Especially if the games where developed using a cross platform game library like SDL so that the games would be easy to cross port to any system.

Informative article.

[bigginal]

This article shows what Sony has done to limit access to the system, but it doesn't say exactly how Sony has stayed within the GPL, or how it is only staying within the GPL through "shifty" means.

Quick summary? Sure: There are so many limitations to the "Runtime Environment" that I don't know why anyone would want to have one. Basically every hardware interface is disabled, and you're not going to get much hard disk space using that whopping 8MB memory card (so you're limited in how many external programs you can run).

This thing sounds so crappy that I'd doubt that there's even a compiler on the system!
-bigginal

Re:Informative article.

[zudo]

Basically every hardware interface is disabled, and you're not going to get much hard disk space using that whopping 8MB memory card

No, no, no. That is simply not true. As documented at this playstation community web site (set up to support ps2 linux). While the complete hardware specification is indeed not made available, the device drivers (with source code) allow access to the restricted i/o devices. So you WILL have access to the hard disk, although you won't be able to make cd/dvds that you can read on the ps2.

Also, while the i/o and sound subsystems are wrapped up in the RTE, by contrast the EE cpu, the vector units, the DMAC and the GS are not only fully open for you to play with, but their specs are provided in the proper system manuals (provided on disc) and libs tools and source code are provided to help you use them. Put another way, you have full access to the graphics and cpu side of ps2. This is great for anyone wanting to play with the ps2s awesome graphics power, and a real opportunity for anyone wanting to get into games development!

Re:Informative article.

[Bazman]

It sounds like linux sits on top of the Runtime Environment, much like an emulator sits on top of the host OS of another system. They can release the Runtime Environment under any license they want, linux would just be a GPL app running on it.

Baz

Sync on green

[zudo]

Over here in Europe our ps2s won't play dvd's properly through an RGB lead (basically similar to your component leads, i.e. the clearest best picture you can get), they come out green.

I hadn't realised until now how that was done, they must be using the same sync on green on/off functionality to restrict our playback.

When this was first discovered at launch a lot of people (myself included) were upset about this, if you want to play games at their best AND watch dvd's you have to keep switching leads. Sony claim they HAD to limit playback in this way (cos of the marcovision thing, I think), but most standalone dvd's over here, including ones manufactured by Sony DO let you play dvd's over an RGB lead.

Thankfully DVD Regionx from Datel enables dvd playback through rgb, as well as allowing discs from any region to be played.

Re:Sync on green

[Tet]

Over here in Europe our ps2s won't play dvd's properly through an RGB lead

Speak for yourself. Works fine for me on my UK PS2.

Re:Sync on green

[sph]

Sony claim they HAD to limit playback in this way (cos of the marcovision thing, I think), but most standalone dvd's over here, including ones manufactured by Sony DO let you play dvd's over an RGB lead.

This isn't very believable explanation from Sony. It is true that Macrovision has not been specified for RGB, only composite and S-video, but that's because most of the consumer-level equipment can't record RGB signal. And because VHS works with composite anyway it doesn't even matter.

Of course RGB signal is far superior to both S-video and composite, because all color components are separate, and because it is the "native" format of CRT-television, and every additional signal conversion will degrade the quality of the picture, no matter how it's done. Also, RGB doesn't have NTSC or PAL color encoding (because it's RGB, duh), so with RGB PAL-television doesn't have to support NTSC to watch imported NTSC-formatted DVDs in color and full quality (and vice versa). Actually, this might be more realistic reason for out-of-box PS2 not displaying RGB correctly with DVDs...

Re:I like it

[MaxQuordlepleen]

That's pretty clever, though I'm also fairly certain that this will only spur open source developers to develop a Linux that will run on the bare metal.

Hmm, I'm not so sure. It's possible, of course, but I think Sony's using a smart tactic to limit hackers: give them half of what they want.

By providing a Linux for the PS/2, even an (apparently) semi-crippled Linux, they have reduced the number of people who will work on or support serious efforts to hack the hardware. Lots of people will be happy to have *any* Linux on the PS/2 and go no further...

Re:The PS2 and the X-Box will both be sooo hacked

[WildBeast]

Well I believe they both have Video/Audio Out which makes it possible to connect them to my video/sound cards and record the DVD's.

It reminds me of..

[saqmaster]

.. the I/Opener.. Ya know, the little tiny Internet browsing PC that was based on a flash-rom linux kernel.. It was a great toy when they first started playing with it, but that's about the limit. A toy.

I can understand why people want to hack about with proprietry hardware and do cool things with them, but what exactly is Sony's point in producing a Linux distribution? From my point of view, they're doing it to keep (in all reality) the minority of box-hackers happy and maybe to prove a point that the PS/2 really is versatile (maybe a plot to scaremonger Microsoft with it's XBOX and the ability to make it do other stuff).

So, in say 6-12 months time, you're going to have PS2's and XBOX's running Linux. Sure, they're powerful machines (the latter comes with faster bits and more I/O), but is there any serious application? The XBOX is fairly bulky, won't really be very space-saving in a rack, but sure, it's a cheap webserver.

It just seems to me that Sony are going to a lot of effort to prove a point - what that point is i'm not quite sure.

Re:It reminds me of..

[zudo]

I think the reaon for buying one of these is fairly obvious. If you're interested in programming games then the opportunity to code for a dedicated games machine is too good to miss.

Sony are trying to resurrect the "bedroom games coder", and if they can get talented people to learn THEIR architecture it could well benefit them. People cutting their teeth on this system will have a much better chance of a job in the industry, which will mean more games and so more licensing money for Sony.

They've done this before with the Net Yarouze (as mentioned in the article), and people did indeed use it to get into the games industry.

Re:It reminds me of..

[Andy_R]

It's probably one of those things that big companies do, where marketing says there's a demand for linux, so they do it, then IP says they need to restrict it, and no-one ever quite twigs that the end product is useless. This reminds me of the 'Yaroze' mini-development kit for the original playstation, it was so hobbled (both in access to features and in terms of who owned the code you make with it) as to be pointless

Re:It reminds me of..

[Lumpy]

you obviously didn't look at the iOpener very long. I've got mine running at 400mhz 10gig hard drive, Linux on it Ethernet running happily, a touchscreen on it..

Hell it's the only socially acceptable PC in the living room.. and it's soon to get mounted in the kitchen as a kitchen PC.

one helluva toy, just like every other PC on the planet is just a toy.

Sync on green....

[wowbagger]

I keep seeing people who don't understand what "sync on green" is, and this guy is one.
<Electronics_lession>
For *any* monitor, it is required to know when a horizontal scan line starts, when it stops, and where the top of the screen is. This information is called sync, and is seperate from the video data that paints the image.

In a normal, modern monitor, five signal lines go to the monitor:

1. Analog red
2. Analog green
3. Analog blue
4. digital vertical sync
5. digital horizontal sync

Now, the hsync line is in one state while the monitor is scanning across the display, and another state during the time the electron beam is being swept back across the display (the horizontal retrace interval). The vsync line is in one state when the screen is being painted, and another when the beam is brought back to the top of the screen (the vertical retrace.)

Now, in older monitors, to save signal lines, they used a technique call "sync on green". During the normal horizontal scan, the green line was at a voltage between 0V and 1V, with 1V being full on green, and 0V being no green. During horizontal retrace, the green line went to -0.5V to signal sync. During vertical retrace, the green line was -0.5V during the whole scan line, and went to 0V during the horizontal retrace. By suitable filtering and phase-lock techniques the actual sync signals were recovered from this. Thus, a sync on green monitor required only 3 signal lines.

Now, if you take a normal monitor, and connect it to a sync-on-green system, the monitor's sync inputs will be undriven. A multirate monitor will simply turn off it's drive to the screen, assuming the computer is turned off.

Sync on green has nothing to do with "synchronizing the red and blue signals with the green" - they are synchronous in time already.

Your best bet for such things is to go to a computer graveyard, and try to find an old monitor. Many older monitors would do sync on green as well as normal discrete sync.

</Electronics_lession>
<Rant>
What I don't understand is why everybody is getting so excited about this. Sony is locking you away from the hardware - without a massive RE effort you are not going to be able to do much with this system. For the price of the PS2 and the Linux distro and hardware you could by far more useful devices (until somebody cracks all the hardware protection). Assuming somebody does manage to get raw HW access, Sony will make that person disappear in a puff of red smoke.

Why don't we all just ignore these people until they learn to play nice with others? Look at the Atari 2600, the Apple ][, the PC. They were successful because people could hack them. Sony and Apple learned the wrong lesson ("We must have total control! Nobody BUT US CAN MAKE MONEY OFF THIS") rather than the right lesson ("Hardware like parachute - works best when open.").
</Rant>

Re:Sync on green....

[GiMP]

SGI Monitors are Sync-on-green and there are plenty of them that have dual connectors.. both 13w3 (sgi/sun connector) and HD15 (IBM PC). HD15 is also easily convertable to DB15 available on most macs (except some new ones with HD15).

SGI monitors can go for quite cheap, although they are very good quality. I recently purchased as refurbished (but in EXCELLENT quality) SGI monitor with dual inputs for $175. The casing, unfortunately was cracked in shipment.. given the choice of a check for $75 or replacement, I chose the check. $100 for a 20" Sony Trinitron tube with dual-inputs .. is quite a decent deal :)

I'm waiting on a high-quality HD15 cable to arrive via mail to test out the dual-input stuff.. but the 13w3 connected to my SGI Octane is quite good :)

Re:Sync on green....

[Tackhead]

> SGI Monitors are Sync-on-green and there are plenty of them that have dual connectors.. both 13w3 (sgi/sun connector) and HD15 (IBM PC). HD15 is also easily convertable to DB15 available on most macs (except some new ones with HD15).

<AOL>me too</AOL>

I've modded an SGI (Sony OEM) GDM20D11, sync-on-green, to run on a Sun Ultra 5 workstation with separate sync. I followed the instructions I found on Adam Kropelin's site: http://www.kroptech.com/gdm20d11mod/.

Another guy (http://perso.libertysurf.fr/lgranjon/electronique /sgi2pc.htm) has documented hacks for the GDM20D10 (Sun) and GDM20D11 (SGI) to run on a PC. It's in French, but the important information is language-independent.

Re:SONY changes it's mind due to THIS article.

[Arnulf]

The author most writes that (1) Linux is free, and that (2) Sony is evil in protecting it's intellectual property and asks(3) why would a company be so stupid to do so, and concludes that(4) in the end, there is freedom.

Just to clarify a bit (I've read the article)

The author with no word states that "Sony is evil". He explains the situation. There is no judgement. Look closely, what you maybe perceive as such is entirely your own.

Linux is free. So what? That does not make it "good" (versus "evil" profit) per se. It is always what you do with it, or with copyright in general, what defines it as good or bad. Law is neutral, how you follow law or use the holes of a law is the point.

The "conclusion" is none that I can follow. What you think about the author is entirely your own business. What the author wrote could be completely wrong, I cannot prove its validity. However, in human society there is always a minimum of trust. So I trust that, what he wrote is correct.

And I hadn't known this beforehand.

Now I was considering buying this kit. However, after this article I'm only considering it, because I can get a keyboard, hard-disk, and ethernet adapter in one set.

Have a nice day!

-Arnulf

Sony is cool

[kazzuya]

I dunno where you get all this anger against Sony.
Sure it went after Bleem & VGS.. but it had its own reasons (invest hundres of millions of dollars to render PSX famous and someone comes over to ride their horse).

As far as I know, Sony never bothered any *non-commercial* emulators. They knew PSEmu full well but they never even sent an email of warning.
Surely Bleem alerted a bunch of American lawyers, and you might have got in touch with them as an indirect result. But you are not writing from a jail, are you ?

In case, if you haven't noticed, Sony is possibly ready to give up on the super-closed-console approach in order to slowdown Microsoft. Even if they try to keep it somewhat close, they know it won't hold for long.
This is a great chance for Linux, and a great chance for the present and future hacker community to have a fresh new cool system to use in place of the same old PC.
You are not wishing that Sony would ship it's hardware expansion with Windows XP & IE, are you ?

Otsukaresama

Re:Sony is cool

[Rolo Tomasi]

Sony are Nazis.

Some time ago I had a Sony CRX120E CD Recorder which had problems with CD-Text. I called Sony support.

"Yes, it's a known problem. You need a firmware upgrade."

"Oh OK. Where can I download it?"

"You can't download the firmware. You have to send the device to a Sony service center and they will upgrade it for you. It will cost 50 DM."

"Lady, you can <censored> my <censored>."

I was pissed. I frantically searched the web for the firmware. The only thing I could find was the firmware for the CRX140E on the Dell website. The CRX140E is an 8x burner while the CRX120E is a 4x burner. I thought it was highly improbable that this would work, but what did I have to lose, I had to send the burner to Sony anyway.

I hacked the Dell flash program to work with the CRX120E and flashed the firmware. Naturally, it didn't work. The burner was dead. Wouldn't even respond to ATAPI commands. The next day, I sent it to the Sony service center.

A week later, I get an email from the Sony service center.

"We weren't able to flash the firmware. The burner doesn't show up on the IDE bus. We will have to replace the main board, which will cost <some ridiculous amount> DM."

OK, so these bozos can't flash the firmware in-circuit. Great "service center".

So I replied:

"Alright, send it back to me, maybe you could put the firmware on a diskette and put it with the burner, so I can flash it myself, after I've built my own freakin flash programmer?"

Response:

"Our policy is to not give out firmware. But we can dispose of the device for free if you want that. Otherwise we would charge you a <some ridiculous amount> return fee for P&P."

So, this was the last Sony product I've bought. Ever.

A quick glance into the future

[Koim-Do]

Well, with the current computer-related legalization in the US, companies will probably be forced by the govt. to do such tricks (a similiar RTE on your PC, preventing content piracy, child porn, and slashdot postings).

Next on law : Your hardware vendor may revoke your license. After all, if you paid for the hardware doesn`t mean you own it. right ?

Re:A quick glance into the future

[acceleriter]

That's why I'm stocked up on "pre-ban" 486's and low end Pentiums. I'm going to make a killing on eBay when this happens.

Happy/Sad

[TheLocustNMI]

While i'm happy that Sony is going to release this version of Linux for the PS2 in America -- who is going to buy it with these seemingly draconian limitations! I don't want to have to boot from a cd, and I'd like to do with the system as I please!

It just doesn't make sense to me as a consumer -- if this PS2 Linux allowed you to do anything with the system, would that not drive MORE people to BUY a PS2? Oh wait, that's right -- Sony sells them at a loss, and hopes that the software makes it up.

Oh hell, i don't know. Someone needs to hack it up so I can put a kernel on it that isn't 3 YEARS OLD.

Re:Happy/Sad

[CMiYC]

Well... not anymore. Sony started to break even on the hardware during this past holiday season. I don't think they are profiting yet, but they are no longer selling it at a total loss.

I'm kind of in the Happy/Sad camp myself. I was kind of excited that the PS2 had really neat hardware that I thought I'd get to play with. I guess not. I thought they would have least provided a layer in their RTE to allow us access to things like the 5.1 encoder. It'd be kind of fun to write stupid little demos and such. I don't mind so much about having to boot from the CD/DVD. I kind of expected that.

What would have been nice (and this doesn't surprise me) is being able to mount the memory cards as is. BUT I can totally understand why they aren't allowing it. Though if someone makes a hack for that, it'd be way fun.

Re:Happy/Sad

[Steveftoth]

The reason that you have to boot off a CD is so that you can still play games normally.

The boot process is very touchy and it makes sence to not disturb it, if it altered the boot processing by having the HD in there, it might cause problems for some games.

They are not selling you a computer. They are selling you a 'limited' development kit. The whole point of this product is to get people to develop hobbist games for it (and not the XBOX). If you're not into throwing your time away making video games, then this is not for you.

It might be interisting to see if you could use this to build your home entertainment intregration device, but why would this be any better then just a normal PC? PCs can do more and cost less! This is just another toy to play with unless you are really looking for a way to break into the console games industry, for which this could be great. Assuming that you want to spend the time to learn the tools.

They've had this since the PS2 was invented, doesn't anyone remember the PS2 TOOL? It was a dev station that ran linux. Probably had more RAM and whatnot, but it was for debugging. I saw one at the GDC last year, they were neat but again, they are just for developing games.

This will run web browsers like crap and generally be slow compared to a NORMAL PC, but if you actually learn how to use the CPU and do some assembly work, it might be worth it. (maybe)

Re:Why???

[mcubed]

Why would anyone really want to run Linux on a PS2 except to prove to themselves that it's possible?

I would love to know the answer to that question.

Can a company like sony really enforce any restrictions/license when all I do is use the box for my own personal use and nothing else??

The DMCA prohibits you from circumventing protections designed to prevent you from gaining unauthorized access to a copyrighted work, but not from circumventing protections that prevent you from making a copy of a copyrighted work. So their ability to enforce whatever restrictions they have built into the device depends upon which restrictions you're trying to get around. Of course, the question really is moot if you're only doing it for your personal use, since they'd never know about it. In effect, you can do whatever you want as long as you keep it to yourself.

-----

New Sony Lifetime Warranty

[Anonymous Coward]

Garunteed for the life of the product.

Why I have one

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a japanese ps2-linux kit (although really the only thing that makes it japanese is the machine it's running on) and I am personally very glad I have it.

1. as a developer, this gives us a cheap way to give artists/designers tools that actually show how elements will look on the TV (colors), and how PS2 specific art (graphics/sound/etc) will be rendered. it is a huge savings to be able to use TCP/IP and open-gl for these tools. it also makes working from home a bit simpler, and who can argue with that?

2. as a programmer, I get to program two things that I enjoy (just for the hell of it) - linux and ps2 hardware - at the same time. sure, I have a few PCs here that would kick the linux kits ass easily at generic apps, esp. memory-hungry and cpu-hungry apps. but just for the fun of using linux on an embedded system, it's great.

and for a wannabe console game programmer, shit -it's an awesome place to start. you can begin with the familiar ground (linux/open-gl/etc) and slowly move to the real hardware specific features.

3. as for GPL vs. Sony's IP rights, I think some people around here have this impression that there is some guy at sony "headquarters" in japan making this hugely compicated agenda that is surely not in the best interest of the open software crowd. I'm pretty damn sure this isn't the case, and as a matter of fact, I think there are some people at sony who have gone pretty damn far (maybe even slightly beyond what their lawyers would consider comfortable) to show their support for the open software crowd. some people there do care, but some don't. same as everywhere. and instead of bitching about it, I'm damn happy that they've taking this starting step (opposed to how closed the PS1 was).

there were probably a couple of people at sony who went to bat saying that they should release this linux kit because there'd be a ton of people who'd be very glad to have it. and that stance was probably pretty unpopular. so the message I want to send to those guys it "hey thanks, great job. good start!" so that maybe in the future, they'll go a little bit farther next time and have even fewer things closed.

flame if you want.
whatever.

Re:Why I have one

[SilentChris]

"so the message I want to send to those guys it "hey thanks, great job. good start!" so that maybe in the future, they'll go a little bit farther next time and have even fewer things closed."

And the reason for this is? Personally, as a developer, I could care less if the system I'm coding on has an open or closed OS. Very few games, if any, are going to made for Linux on PS2. Those that are won't take advantage of the underlying hardware - not only because of the reasons stated in the article (that Sony's version of Linux hides some of the hardware) but also because the system wasn't built to run games in Linux. It was build, mastered, and tweaked by engineers to run in its native enviroment.

I sometimes think arguments for "openness" are silly, particularly on devices that hardware manufacturer's created to be closed. You can argue all you want for "open standards" - it isn't going to mean jack to the millions of PS2 (and XBox, and GameCube, etc.) game players out there who don't care what OS their system is running, just if the graphics are fast and the control is solid.

The reason PS2 Linux was made

[Lurks]

The reason PS2 Linux was made in the first place is to provide an inexpensive dev-kit for Japanese students which are looking to enter the games industry. It's not a bad idea in that regard. I'm pretty puzzled why these did this in the West though. They asked if there was much demand and naturally rather a lot of people put their hands up and expressed basic interest in the PS2 Linux. I'm not sure that there was any level of understanding (and still isn't) on why they were doing this in the first place.

In no way was this designed to be some sort of feasible Linux system in a general sense. Sony don't particularly want you hacking about making drivers and doing weird things with their hardware. In fact they've made it pretty damn difficult to do so. And as for ideas on hacking it to gain more access... I respecfully suggest that people making these overtures don't have that much of an understanding on what the PS2 hardware is like.

However if someone absorbs much of the included hardware manuals, gets a handle on some of the DMA issues and maybe learns a bit of vector unit assembly then they're some ways down the road in becoming a useful PS2 commercial developer. Is that anyone here? I doubt it.

I'm sure the debate will continue and some hard-core Linux evangelists will crow about license issues and that there ought to be unfettered access to the hardware. That's not Sony's agenda and, to be honest, why is this much of a desirable thing anyway. Quite clearly Linux on a PC is more useful in any event.

I'd really like to know if this will sell anything in the West at all. The demand for games developers is such that you can get an entry level job straight out of university anyway. If you're going to work on PS2 dev, they'll factor in that training on the 'real steel' dev-kits anyhow.

If you wanted to do home-brew game development for console-like applications, the Gameboy Advance is an infinitely more feasible platform from a technical point of view. Coupled with the fact you could give a copy of your work to someone else or demonstrate it on a stock GBA, it's got to be a more attractive platform for this sort of thing.

Show me the sony.

[Circuit Breaker]

Unfortunately for IBM and Apple, even though the platforms were immensely successful, it wasn't them who made the real big money - it was distributed among a lot of other players. Sony cares about making money rather than standardizing an open platform.

Cracking the Virtual Machine

[liquidsin]

Ok, sure - sooner or later, somebody WILL crack the protection layer and get raw hardware access. Everyone knows it, since I've seen about 80 posts so far saying how fast it will happen. So then what? Everyone's so firm that this will happen. That it MUST happen, for the greater good or something. But what will anyone do with it? Are there going to be any apps that make the PS2/Linux kit a must have? Will somebody develop some breakthrough game? Or will we see more of the consoles running apache that we see now with the Dreamcast? "Yeah, well I have a PS2 running apache! And all I have to do is boot from a dvd and keep all my served files under 8Mb so they fit on a memory card." Bah. Nobody will develop games for it. It'll be nothing more than a novelty that gets stuffed away in the closet when you realize that you can do way more on a PC that, for the same price, has far superior hardware. It's like watching a bunch of cats, scratching at a closed door, and as soon as somebody opens it, they sniff around and walk away.

Re:Cracking the Virtual Machine

[geekoid]

maybe, but occasionally someone comes along and does something unexpected and cool.
Besides, Isn't there a Hard drive for the PS2? and USB support? Why can't I use those device to store served files?

Because systems go extinct...

[NanoGator]

I like the idea of porting Linux to my Dreamcast because it gives it new life. For example, I want to be able to burn CD's of DIVX-compressed movies and play them back on my Dreamcast, so I can watch them on my TV w/o need of having a computer attached.

If first they port Linux to the DC (which I think has been done...), then they port DivX to the DC, then those are the building blocks I need to do this. Then, they can port Linux to the PS2, and then this code at some point will be able to run on it. Suddenly my extinct game machine has a new purpose.

If anything, it's a fun project. Practicality comes later.

Re:Because systems go extinct...

[Forkenhoppen]

*ahem* Did you not read the article? You can't use CD-Rs in the Linux PS2; piracy, and all that. Although you may be able to stream 'em off another computer in your house, over the ethernet adapter..?

Re:Because systems go extinct...

[NanoGator]

Yah I'm concerned about that too. Frankly, I'll be happy if it does 320 by 240 at 30fps decently. One of these days I'd like to set up a computer to act as a PVR, and I think I can encode to DivX with it.

My plan is to get 4 hours on a CD, so 320 by 240 is probably the candidate. It's not quite VHS quality, but it's certainly watchable.

Re:Because systems go extinct...

[NanoGator]

Heh I said Dreamcast, not PS2. If I were to buy a PS2 for that purpose, by the time it gets cheap enough I'll have a DVD burner. My understanding is that it won't be long before I can get a DVD burner that makes DVD's playable on a DVD player. I'll probably want to use DivX at that point since I can stuff a lot more onto a DVD than I could with MPEG2.

It's hard to predict what other uses I'll find for it, though. I like the idea of playing MAME on my Dreamcast. It'll likely run better on the PS2, though.

Once Linux is sucessfully ported to PS2 and easy to burn discs for, then the life of the PS2 is extended for me. When they start bombing them out for $50 - $100, then I'll be able to do something with it after the games get old.

Re:Because systems go extinct...

[Steveftoth]

There is a port of DIVX to the DC, it is not optimized and is unable to play movies @ full speed. Maybe if someone is willing to profile and convert it to ASM it will be fast enough to play movies.

With all these propertiary consoles it's tough to spend a lot of time programming them since so much has to be thrown away when going from one console to the other. At least C is kinda portable.

Re:Because systems go extinct...

[NanoGator]

Megahertz on a SH-4 are different than the MHZ on a Pentium class chip. Now I'll tell you right now that I know jack about processors, but it is my understanding that the SH4 is more optimized than a general purpose PC.

I could easily be wrong about this, but I have a feeling that I'm at least partially right.

Heh it'd be interesting if they found a way to use the geometry processor on the graphics chip to help it out.

Re:here's a mirror in case the site gets slashdott

[Pope]

any transmission of copyrighted songs over the air, even a sample, must have a royalty paid to the publisher... Japanese singers also do not commonly own the copyright to their own songs, they couldn't give them away even if the wanted to... There is also royalties you have to pay for the subtle music played in department stores, doctor's offices, and on the phone when you are on hold. Videos are divided into "rental" and "non-rental" versions. The "rental" version commonly cost more to the rental house, and the non-rental version must be sold at a particular price point set by the manufacturer for an allotted amount of time.

And this is different from North America how?

I'm already working on a PS2 linux title

[Mongoose]

I'm porting my TombRaider 1-5 OpenGL based engine implementation over to PS2 linux as soon as I get my kit.

I'm going for crazy new particle systems and multiplayer, so I can avoid bothering with reproducing the hardcoded gameplay issues alsmost entirely.

Understandable.

[Maul]

Sony does sell professional development kits for
a hefty sum of money. It is doubtful that they'd
sell something as powerful for $200. I wasn't
expecting that from the start with this. The Linux
kit for PS2 will be very much like the "black"
Playstation that Sony sold for about $700 back
in the PS1 days. It will be a fun toy for people
to play with. In some cases, people will get their
first taste of game programming on a console with
this kit. People will share some games they made
with their friends. This is primarily a toy
and a learning device.

If the protection layer that has been discussed
is broken somehow, I still doubt it will be much
more than above.

I'll probably be ordering one of these things.
It seems like it will be a pretty cool/fun thing
to have for my PS2. Probably more fun playing
with it than some games.

Japan isn't THAT different

[URSpider]

When I lived in Japan from 1992-1996, I saw the state of intellectual property there first hand. For example, normal broadcast radio does not play top 40 hits. Actually any transmission of copyrighted songs over the air, even a sample, must have a royalty paid to the publisher. If you want to listen to music on the radio, you find an American military station broadcasting on base. Japanese singers also do not commonly own the copyright to their own songs, they couldn't give them away even if the wanted to. Concert recordings are also illegal. There is also royalties you have to pay for the subtle music played in department stores, doctor's offices, and on the phone when you are on hold.

And, except for not playing Top 40 on the radio, how is this different from the Good ol' USA? Ever heard of ASCAP, buddy? Here in the US, radio stations sure as heck pay royalties for the songs they play. Muzak is a pay service, and they've got to pay their composers. If you play CD's or commercial radio as background music in a store, without paying royalties, you are violating US law! And, how much of their own stuff do you think Garth Brooks and Mariah Carey write?

Re:Japan isn't THAT different

[darkonc]

A number of years, in Canada, one label (Polygram, I think) tried to charge radio stations for the 'priveledge' of playing their songs on the radio. Campus radio stations rebelled and simply refused to play anything from polygram.

Polygram first offered to let them play 'alternative music' only without any royalties. The radio stations refused. Polygram finally relented and allowed free play for all of their music. I don't know if this has changed, but it clearly shows that music companies get more than their share of value by letting radio stations play their music.

As far as I know (in canada, at least), it is legal to play radio in a public place without paying royalties. The broadcast on radio is considered the public performance and the use of the broadcast is considered 'fair use' -- but if you pop in a CD, it's considered a new public performance -- which requires a royalty payment.

(this information garnered from a TV news story about someone being sued for allegedly playing CDs in his restaurant).

Re:Japan isn't THAT different

[darkonc]

This was a number of years ago, so it's possible that music distributers have managed to beat radio stations into submission since then.

In Canada, playing the radio is royalty free (as of late last year). Taken on it's face, Playing a radiostation shouldn't classify as 'rebroadcast'. It may be a case of ASCAP bending the rules and daring some mini-mart to take them to court over it... I can, however, see it making those TV/Cable repeaters ilegal ( :-).

Re:The PS2 and the X-Box will both be sooo hacked

[muffen]

Before the end of the year we will have full access to all the hardware on both systems and have full system specs

I wish you we're right. However, with Sony going after the NEO chip creators and threatening to sue anyone else who decides to create modchips, Microsoft threatning anyone that has a dump of the X-Box BIOS to sue them, the DMCA and the European Union on the edge of getting a law similar to the incredibly stupid DMCA, I think I lack the hope you have.

Do you really want to know?

[DaveWood]

What others have said, about attracting budding developers, is true, but it's not the real story.

The console industry represents a new revenue model for the "personal computer industry" - and it may mean the demise, or at least marginalization, of the PC in the home. You see, Playstation represents 40% of Sony's entire revenues (yes, Sony as in Sony music, pictures, VCRs, telephones, PDA's, computers, etc...). That's an enormous amount of money. And they sell those consoles at a loss for quite a while, too. How, you ask? Because every time a game get's sold, they get a piece of the action. They've used their hardware platform to become an indispensable middle-man, and it's making them filthy rich.

Microsoft, ever vigilant, realizes that a lot of their revenues come from home users, and only games really drive sales of home computers. Console game sales have been spanking PC game sales for some time - to the point where, in a few years, the PC game industry will find itself in a state of serious decline. If not for email, web browsers and word processors, not many people would buy PC's at all. And by the way, consoles, starting with the Dreamcast, are already doing email and web browsing.

It's simple economics - console? $200-300. PC? $500 and up. And for a good PC, that can play the latest games? $1500+. I'm sure you can understand why consoles have an order of magnitude more penetration than PC's.

Microsoft understands this, and that's why the XBox has a hard drive. The console is going to be able to surf and do email and IM and, eventually, do word-processing (USB/ethernet printers!), TiVO-like functionality, etc. etc. That's convergence, baby. And at that point it's replaced the home computer, and PC's are something you only see at the office or at a hobbyist's house. PC games will stop being ported to the console and start being ported from it, if at all (this part is well under way).

Sony is a threat to Microsoft - Bill earnestly wants to keep owning the "home computing" market. They want all those "home consoles" to be running Windows. They want to be the middleman for every game and application sale in the home. The XBox is a multi-billion dollar loss-leader predicated on this very notion.

Sony is a very smart company. They're savvy, they're well run. They know the score, and they have a big first-mover advantage. It's going to be a bloody fight. We know that Microsoft intends to make the XBox into a $300 home computer, based on Windows, to run "consumer applications" along with consumer games, and be waiting at the finish line when the race is over. In this round, Sony just introduced a prototype for _their_ consumer applications platform.

It's Linux.

Re:Do you really want to know?

[bartle]

Microsoft understands this, and that's why the XBox has a hard drive. The console is going to be able to surf and do email and IM and, eventually, do word-processing (USB/ethernet printers!), TiVO-like functionality, etc. etc. That's convergence, baby. And at that point it's replaced the home computer, and PC's are something you only see at the office or at a hobbyist's house. PC games will stop being ported to the console and start being ported from it, if at all (this part is well under way).

As I understand it, that was their original plan, but the PC manufacuers balked. They made it clear to Microsoft that it was in it's best interest to keep to operating systems and stay away from the complete package. Perhaps eventually Microsoft will be up for a war on that front but at least as far as the XBox is concerned, they gave in.

The result, it would seem to me, is that Microsoft will continue to encroach further into the home market but won't come out with the "total solution" unless they can guarantee it will be successful. If they were to leap too soon, they would effectively be declaring war on the whole rest of the computer and home electronics industry.

Re:Do you really want to know?

[_ganja_]

Not again. Every few years when a new console is released someone makes exactly the same statement, I'm not saying you are wrong it might well happen this time (especially with MS involved) but its been predicted on a regular basis for almost 10 years.... The PC is dead long live the PC.

Re:Do you really want to know?

[DaveWood]

Oh yes, absolutely.

They already have the hardware and software to do a "totally converged" XBox now; they held off on that because they want the XBox to win as a VG console first. If it loses, they haven't exactly broken with their retail partners - yet. But if it wins, or even comes in a healthy 2nd, then they're ready for converged XBox variants in the 2003-2004 timeframe.

Pretty bogus ....

[taniwha]

I don't think sync-on-green is a terrible conspiricy on Sony's part .... it's very simple - the box has a TV output (not one designed for VGA monitors) - either composite/svideo or component - that means there's only 3 wires coming out of the graphics chip (usually YPrPb - but probably able to be warped into RGB by turning off the color space converter inside). There are no seperate sync signals like there are on a VGA style monitor.

Sony are doing you a favor - they're allowing you to use RGB output on a traditional computer monitor (but it has to support sync-on-green because there's no other way to get the sync out, not enough pins on the connector).

"Looking Closely" on Slashdot

[mikeage]

Am I the only one who finds that headline remarkably out of place?

Obligatory "DC R00lz, PS2 71nux suX0rz" post...

[MsGeek]

The more information comes out about PS2 Linux, the worse it looks. Why buy $300 worth of crap to make Linux run on an uber-proprietary system when you can buy a Dreamcast for $50 (if you can find one still) and have a platform that will boot Linux out of the box? You might have to avoid machines built after October 2000, (although there apparently is a further hack out to create a bootable disk for those machines) but I have one from 9/2000 and it booted the DC Linux disk right out of the box.

The exciting things will happen when someone builds a lightweight Linux booter that will address everything on the DC and allow you to run games designed for Linux. There is still some work to be done to make all the hardware work, but there are a lot of hands on this project so I suspect that it won't be long before the Yamaha audio, the Conexant controllerless modem and full video access (rather than framebuffer) are fully working under Linux.

SEGA is to be commended for releasing as much information as they have on the DC. Their attitude is also commendable: "we stopped making the machine in 2001, have your way with it." Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have all demonstrated their lack of willingness to play ball with amateur developers. DC is the only game console which is actually FRIENDLY to amateur development.

One last thing...look at my .SIG. Sony is the only company I can think of that is a signatory to both the RIAA and MPAA. That's reason enough to stay away from Sony products.

Re:Your rant on openness

[Tofuhead]

Don't forget that the PC wasn't hackable by design. IBM used off-the-shelf parts because that was the cheapest way to go. If it hadn't been for Compaq reverse-engineering the BIOS, IBM would have been happy to leave the platform closed (until somebody else came along and did it). Don't forget the IBM PS/2 either, their attempt to reinstate their control over the PC architecture.

Hardware companies are just much more sophisticated nowadays than they were then, just like consumers. There now exist many more tools (technological, ideological, financial, legal) with which to fight their competitors/consumers and keep proprietary technologies closed. To big business, proprietary = $$$. Apple knows relatively well when and when not to apply this concept, and I hardly think they consider it "the wrong lesson" learned, since their attempt to open the Macintosh really just ended up biting them in the wallet while not really expanding the market.

< tofuhead >

Re:SONY changes it's mind due to THIS article.

[SubtleNuance]

"...and those who protect their property are wrong..."

Thanks for the waste of time.*

Without going into too much detail -- that you are obviously aware (otherwise you couldnt skillfully troll in such a way) -- your rabid 'property' assertion is malformed.

Intellectual "property" is not "property": it doesnt exist. It is an agreement, an artificial construct -- not a real thing . Now, outside of the "Get off my Property or Ill shoot you" United States, there is not such a radical concept of "personal property", in fact, allot of nations manage to share a great deal in their civil society.

So, really, you are making a very contentious point, failing to realize that your bias and pre-disposed perspective is not shared by all people (that 'intellectual property' exists && an individuals property is the most precious and unquestionable 'right' (the former was born by plutocrats && the latter by McCarthyism (+ unnatural adherence to the US Constitution without critical analysis (read: "American Democracy as a Religion))) but i digress).

So, where does that leave your post, and my ill-prepared retort? Nowhere, from my perspective you are a slave to your myopia and I -- who doesnt agree with ultimate-right of personal property or intellectual-property (in total) -- am a Neo-Communist.

Basically, you drop a blatent non-sequitur on /.; get modded +1 insightful, and I am amazed at both the moderator and yourself for not being able to recognize an argument beyond the skill of an 8th grade debate team, and I welcome the Anti-Communist bigotry that I will illicit.

*You certainly wasted my time with your narrow and skewed world-view -- how did you enjoy my wasting yours with mine?

Note to troll moderators: Ive got tonnes of karma to burn.

Re:here's a mirror in case the site gets slashdott

[darkonc]

One of the differences (not mentioned in the excerpted bit) is that -- in the US and Canada, at least -- you can't fix a minimum price for selling something. A manufacturer can print a 'Suggested Retail Price' on the box, but if they try to enforce it, they'll get their wrist slapped.

Re:Your rant on openness

[spitzak]

Bzzt. Wrong!

The entire BIOS assembly code was printed in the manual for the IBM PC. The code was copyrighted so nobody could make a clone, but anybody could read it and use that information to program the machine.

What Compaq did was "reverse engineer" it by having the reverse-engineers ask questions of other people who could look at the assmbly code and answer the questions. They could also test things on a PC, but they could not look at the assembly itself. This was a legal workaround of the copyright and allowed Compaq to make a clone.

Re:Your rant on openness

[Tofuhead]

Yeah? Well, color me enlightened. Never owned an original PC manual or heard this bit of lore before.

< tofuhead >

Re:FALSE, it has never been cracked.

[Ryu2]

It wasn't cracked, but there are "corporate" XP versions floating around which don't require activation.

Anybody willing to sue Sony??

[darkonc]

As far as I can see, the Sony release of Linus is in violaiton of the GPL.

From the article:

This is how the Runtime Environment (RTE) works. In order to get Linux running on your PS2, you must boot the system using the PS2 Linux DVD. During boot, after all the copy-protection stuff is taken care of, the system lays down the Runtime Environment. This is basically a layer that hides access to the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit), the input/output processor, the hard drive, the CD/DVD-ROM system, the controllers, memory cards, USB, i.Link and other peripherals. The RTE does supply hardware looking hooks, an educated guess being faux-memory address and registers. Then the Linux kernel is loaded onto of this. There are Linux device drivers that accesses the Runtime Environment that are open source, but it's just a device driver calling in all actuality, another device driver that's closed.

From the GPL:

These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.

Given that their runtime environment is an integral part of the PS/2 Linux distribution, refusal to release the source code to the RTE would be a violation of the GPL -- and thus a copyright violation.

Any lawyers out there willing to support/fight my conclusion??

My guess is that taking on Sony on this issue -- besides having the prospect of being rather expensive if it actually went to court -- would probably have some interesting side effects -- both legal and media-wise.