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9th Circuit: Thumbnails Are Big Enough For Fair Use

An anonymous reader submits: "According to an article from law.com, yesterday's decision by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (U.S.) will have far-reaching effects on web publishing. From the article: '... The court found that reproducing photographs to create thumbnail images is a fair use of the material, but displaying full-sized images violates the copyright owner's exclusive right to publicly display his works....But the court found that displaying the full-sized images through linking and framing was not transformative and harmed the market for the original photographs.' One lawyer is quoted as saying, 'It's basically going to do away with linking or framing without permission.'"

21 of 388 comments (clear)

  1. In other words by Restil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have an image on my site, and someone does a direct link to it, to display it on their site...

    and therefore drains my bandwidth....

    and deprives me of any ad revenue or anything else as a result....

    I have to provide permission first.

    Hmmm... is there a problem here?

    Note, this doesnt' stop someone from creating a thumbnail and using it to link to my site... where someone can see the whole image.

    -Restil

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
    1. Re:In other words by alecto · · Score: 4
      Yes. There is a problem. You made the image available with an openly specified protocol, on a public network, for anyone to access. If you don't want to make it available that way, that's your choice--and it's just plain absurd to whine that people dare to actually use the methods in place to see that image!

      If you want to use countermeasures, such as checking HTTP_REFERER, hacking your web server to verify that a banner ad loaded first, etc., that's your right, but it might just drive the people you want away from your site.

      If you want to make it available that way, and complain when people "cheat" you or "steal" from you by "directly" linking to your image, that's also your right, but it's not going to accomplish anything terribly useful. If it's on the web, and it's anything anyone gives a darn about, it's going to be looked at, captured, stored, manipulated, and shared. I miss the days when more people thought that was a good thing than not.

    2. Re:In other words by MaxVlast · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not at all. Books in libraries are available with an openly specified protocol, in a public place, for anyone to access. They even provide photocopiers. If I go and photocopy the latest John Grisham novel and put it in my library, you bet I'm risking trouble.

      --
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      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
    3. Re:In other words by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 5, Insightful

      a better analogy would be:

      you put a poster of a painting you did up to advertize your exibit at the musium.......some person comes along, whips out his industrial imaging copier to digitize the poster as good as possable, he puts the poster back, and a week later he is using it to promote his [enter project here]. by putting the poster up, you should have to deal with folks taking a picture of it with their cameras, but to take your poster, copy it then use the exact copy to promote whatever it is I am doing is Copyright violation. even though I put it out in full access of the general public.

      I however do think it would be nice if folks would just lighten up and only get pissy if they are not sighted as the creater of the work (when there is no wide spread distrobution with no compenation going on)

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    4. Re:In other words by acceleriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Holy shit! You're saying that putting a document on the Internet is no more giving permission to access it than leaving your door unlocked? My god, what a filthy thief I am for loading all those web pages over the years!!! Lock me up and throw away the key! (That was sarcasm: putting your documents/pictures/songs/poems on the web grants permission for their public access, unless you acutally use a lock, like, say, http basic authentication).

      Tired comparisons to stealing your couch don't make the link correct. While it might not be terribly courteous to spider someone's webspace or link into it, it's a hazard of putting your stuff on the web. Copyright is nice and all, but without enforcement, it means bupkus. And unless you're http://riaa.org, you won't be getting any of that.

      Executive summary: if you don't want people to look at it except on your terms, publish a book, not a web site.

      --

      CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.

    5. Re:In other words by drodver · · Score: 4, Informative

      Two sites which are sustained by ads but are not porn:

      ShackNews
      Fuckedcompany

      There are others.

    6. Re:In other words by thing12 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      No, the problem was that Ditto/Arriba used to link the full size image inline (they don't anymore). So other than the link below it you didn't have the original context. There's nothing wrong with the way google is doing things (framing the entire page with the image in context). The courts are simply saying that it's wrong to inline images from other servers without permission.

      Looking at it in a broader context - lets say that in a few years the whole web has moved to XML with Stylesheets to format it. And some popular news site, lets say CNN.com, has a /news.xml on its server which they would normally display to the end users with their /news.xsl stylesheet. So I decide that I like their news data, and I want to make a search engine to help people find news from all sorts of sites - theirs in particular. To help people find things easier (and of course to force them to stay on my site since eyeballs==$$$) I decide that while I'll give a link to the source, I'll at the same time take that XML content and use my own stylesheet to reformat it for display inline in my site. The browser is still retrieving the XML file from CNN.com's server, and all I'm doing is overriding the appearance of it for display in my site. Is that fair use?

      I can't imagine anyone who understands the issue thinking that it's fair use. Deep linking is not theft, but inlining other people's content is. Plain and simple.

    7. Re:In other words by Twylite · · Score: 5, Informative

      It would seem that the terminology being used is somewhat confusing. "Linking" appears to indicate a direct URL reference in (say) an IMG tag, rather than a "link to a page" (A tag).

      Essentially there is no problem with providing a link to the original page, where the image will be displayed in context, but pulling the full image out of context is an issue.

      From previous legal challanges and discussions, it would seem that "framing" is much less clearly defined. Providing a banner which indicates that you are supplying content as a proxy (or similar circumstance) appears to be okay, but having a site embed content from another site (say in another frame) where there is no indication that the content is not yours, would be considered framing.

      This tends to happen most often when the site with the content has frames, and you have frames (in both cases, HTML frames), and you can link directly to one of their frames without the rest being displayed.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    8. Re:In other words by Eccles · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are right. For instance, you have a front door that is widely left unlocked because it's an open standard and I can easily just learn how to unlock it.

      Nonsense analogy.

      What makes index.htm magic? Or what permits me to visit www.nerdfarm.org? I didn't get your explicit permission to view it. Do I need it? It's agreed that no, by setting up something that will respond to my request, you have implicitly given me and everyone else permission to view it.

      So why is www.nerdfarm.org/fatdrunkandstupid.jpg magically different? You've put it up there in directly accessible form. Don't want me to get it? Indicate that through the accepted protocol of HTTP_REFERRER; if I forge that, I'm misrepresenting myself, and that way lies fraud. Likewise, don't want spiders? Create a robot.txt file. If I spider you anyway, you've revoked the implicit yes for spiders, so by ignoring it I'm in the wrong.

      But the default for web content is you can get what you can URL. Given that there are ways to indicate that you don't want that default, that's what should be done -- not a change to that default assumption.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
  2. So what is a thumbnail defined as? by CaptCanuk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Based on what they stated, any adjustment to the actual image can be considered enough of a change. One could scale to 99% the width and 99% the height and use that image to link to. Or perhaps just use the img width and height tags to display the linked image in a smaller size; you may be linking to the image but it's displayed in an altered form.

    I wonder if that's sufficient to get around the ruling.

    --
    ---- The geek shall inherit the Earth.
    1. Re:So what is a thumbnail defined as? by dinotrac · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I wonder if that's sufficient to get around the ruling.

      Probably not. If you read the Court's discussion, you would have seen that thumbnails were ok, in part, because they had been sufficiently transformed from the originals to be unsuitable to serve the same purpose as the originals.

      I would be that most 99% thumbnails could substitute pretty well for the original pictures.

  3. This is a good thing - the frame content war. by Ieshan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a great thing for the most infernal practice on the web - people loading other people's work into their frameset, with their titles and their content on either side of it.

    If this isn't allowed, finally we'll be able to have some place where the author of the work has either the rest of his website recognized or has it branched away from the "link-pirate".

  4. Good, saves some people trouble. by Apuleius · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unless I'm misreading, this means that
    $WEB_MONKEY[0] at $SITE[0] can't put a
    link like this: <img src="http://$SITE[1]/image.jpeg">
    without being smacked down by
    the admins at $SITE[1]. In the early
    days of the Web people who resented such
    linking would hack Apache to demand the
    right referrer before serving an image.
    It's still the better solution in my view,
    but the courts are right to intervene.

  5. This is not a troll... by catsidhe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... but is a serious question.

    What effect does this decision have on everyone in the world who isn't in the USA?

    Would enforcement rely on a Skylarov effect, or an 'effective place of publication' ruling, or both?

    --
    "This is a Hollywood movie: when it comes to the Laws of Physics, they're lucky if they get Gravity!" --- my wife
  6. The hypocrites are posting.... by BlackStar · · Score: 4, Troll
    First people, get the facts straight and don't shoot from the hip from the badly "framed" byline. You may still link to a site from yours. That's not an issue. But you may not extract or appear to be the origin of information from that site by inline embedding or framing of subsections of that site.

    Why is that bad? Why is that "against a free and open Internet"? That protects copyright. That's ALL. A photograph is copyright by the original author. So is a written work. So is source code. In fact, copyright and license is all that's stopping a popular enemy of many of the readers of this site from running off with a lot of source code and using it in proprietary products. This law protects the originators of work. It gives the author the ability to control and decide how that work will be used.

    Anyone can still create excerpts of works for research, indexing and review purposes such as short links to stories, quotes of larger works, and now, thumbnails. This law extends the long-respected and venerated copyright law into the realm of digital images, and in what I personally feel is a responsible and very fair way.

    For once, the law appears to be creating and extending a statute by case law in a fair way, in line with the intention of the original law, and it's getting slagged by some of the people it protects. How disappointing.

    Try to weigh the rights of an author to own their labour vs. a free for all. This law protects and extends the right of each of us to create something, and either give it away, or sell it, or distribute it in some other novel way. Without that, anyone can take anything any of us does and use it in any way they wish, without our permission, and without compensation, and most importantly, without any concerns as to the intent for the use of the work originally.

    Thus endeth the rant. Just think.

  7. This is absurd. by 1/137 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is absurd.

    Imagine some site has a web page that displays a picture surrounded by adds. Lets keep things simple, and say there is one image for the picture and one image for the ad. A normal web page directs your browser to request the image for the picture, tells you where to display it, tells it to request the ad image, and then where to display it. (actually, the ad probably comes first!).

    In this case, you could view the html source yourself, type in the URL for the image you want, and voila, just the image would pop up. No copyright infringement, because they have built their site to provide the image to any anonymous client on demand.

    But now if I write a page that instructs your browser to go to the other site and request the original image, then surround it with flowers instead of ads, this is copy right infringement. But they gave it to you on your request.

    Its like if I tell you, go to Addison-Welsey, and ask them to give you a free copy of the latest Britney Spears Bio, and they'll give it to you, and they do, and then charge me with copyright infringement.

    If they don't want people to access the data anonymously, all they have to do in not give it away anonymously

    In our simple exam, the site could post a single gif image that has the adds and the original image combined.

    --
    My handle breaks slashcode, what does your handle do?
    1. Re:This is absurd. by Bonker · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they don't want people to access the data anonymously, all they have to do in not give it away anonymously

      Mod this guy up.

      I worked for an artist one time on a website to sell nice framed prints of his artwork.

      The trick was that the guy didn't want to put any pictures of his art on the website.

      I told him very clearly and simply that he had two options. He could choose to give anyone who wanted it tiny versions of the art for free... a 1024x768 jpeg of any given piece of large framed art probably suffers about 90% resolution loss... and hope that the people who liked them would buy the full-sized wall-hangers, or he could not put them on his website and expect people to buy works of art they couldn't see.

      I convinced him after a little while, and he made a few thousand dollars selling stuff. Then one of his relatives convinced him that people were stealing from him by downloading the images of the website, so he took most of them down. Now he doesn't make much money any more.

      I just checked the site again, and a few of the pictures are back up... at a greatly reduced filesize. I bet he starts making money again.

      --
      The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
  8. The relevant site by Jade+E.+2 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The person who filed this suit, Leslie Kelly, has a website at http://netcopyrightlaw.com/ that has lots of information (FUD) regarding how evil (useful) search engines make millions (diddly squat) by stealing (indexing) innocent content providers' (money-grubbing bastards') images. It's an interesting (disgusting) read.

    Note: Reality filter in effect, suggested changes added in parentheses.

    On another note, this decision really has nothing to do with hyperlinking, only with embdding other content into a page without attributing it, i.e. either using frames or the SRC of an IMG. The only way it even vaguely relates to hyperlinks is that it's not really clear under this decision whether creating a hyperlink to an image directly instead of linking to the page that contains the image is forbidden. I don't see any language to that effect, but it could be considered unattributed display nonetheless.

  9. Re:Mixed Feelings by dinotrac · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ruling was not against providing links.

    The ruling was against linking directly to images. More specifically, it was for linking directly to and displaying images without any of their original context.

    People could see Kelly's images without knowing they came from Kelly's site, or without any of the information he might wish to have associated with them.

    To add insult to injury, they'd use his bandwidth to serve them up!

  10. You mean the "big images" exist?! by Nathdot · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you've ever "accidentally" been directed to a "leisure" site then, like me, you were probably convinced that only thumbnail images exist.

    This case is a landmark for me because it provides evidence that non-thumbnail pr0n is actually out there somewhere.

    :)