Digital-Logic Microspace Mini-PCs

frozenray writes: "Digital-Logic AG, a Swiss company, sells two rather cool BX-based mini PCs, the Microspace-PC30 and -PC31. Most notable features are: very compact size, passive cooling (<35 dB according to the manufacturer), an impressive collection of interfaces (including 2xUSB, IRDA, TV Out/In, FireWire, 2xEthernet 10/100, optional smartcard reader, line in/out, microphone), CDR or DVD, 20 GB 2.5" harddisk. The downside: Those are definitely no systems for power users (current processors are 700 MHz Celeron and 700 MHz P3, 1 GHz mobile P4 systems are planned according to this [German] article), the SMI721 graphics controller is nothing for UT addicts, and they're quite expensive (CHF 2'549.- and 3'199.- according to their Swiss distributor, which amounts to approximately US$ 1'517.- / US$ 1'904.- at the current exchange rate). Another caveat: The power supply is external, but I didn't see any pictures of it on their website. Readers may want to compare this design to the TX2 version of the 'Cappuccino' PC which is similar in concept but has a rather loud CPU fan."

Comments

underpowered, overpriced

[cygnus]

at those prices, you might as well spring for the new iMac.

Re:underpowered, overpriced

[Bastian]

Hmm. . .for just under $2k, I could get a 15" flatscreen, 800mhz G4, 256meg RAM, 60GB HD, Superdrive (w00t), Geforce 2 graphics, all running OS X.
Or, I could get a p3-700, 256meg RAM, a weak-ass graphics chipset (judging from the 4mb(!?) of VRAM, a 20GB hard drive, a 24x DVD-ROM, all running on Windows Me. No monitor included.

Hmm. . . this is gonna be a hard one. . .

Re:underpowered, overpriced

[cygnus]

yeah i agree. that was just my wiseass way of saying it. :)

Can you feel it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you feel the floor around that NT server shaking as it tries to build that ASP page for all of us at once?

What's the point?

[MiTEG]

Why would you buy something like this when you can get a notebook that is faster, quieter, cheaper, smaller, and more power efficient for half the price from Dell?

Maybe the article explains more, but it seems to be /.'ed.

Re:What's the point?

[sam_handelman]

The devices I've seen billed as "Mini PCs" are a bit smaller than normal laptops, I'd say about 8" x 8" x 3" (it's late, don't jump on me if I'm off.)
People in "industry" buy them, with 286 chips, because they want to make embedded devices but don't want to deal with firmware. I have some friends who make scientific instruments, they use them for this purpose as well.

The only use I can think of for something with about 1 Ghz of power - and it's a pretty strange one - is as a control system for really outre field analytical devices, if I wanted to make them portable. I'm talking about a device with really a lot of intelligence that is basically built into a laptop casing, with room to spare to make it a bit tougher.

The big problem with this, of course, is that anyone who is thinking of carrying around such a device (parts alone upwards of 30 grand, depending on what exactly it is, plus value added from being custom made by multiple PhDs) can get a laptop. It would seem to be much simpler to control the device from the laptop, like we allready do for the few devices that work this way.

For one thing, there is little point in doing sophisticated analysis in the field if you don't have a moniter to view the results.

Wow, that's nifty

[Microlith]

I wonder what it's shock tolerances are. That looks like something you'd stick in your trunk, hook up a few wires, and have a car mp3 player with all of an hour's effort.

As for replacing laptops... no.

Laptops are much more convenient, an entire display and input system integrated into the casing. This thing looks like a super-small replacement for that big box on most people's desk. Get the CEO that nice 19" flatpanel, nice mouse, keyboard, everything, and mount one of these things under his desktop. Much easier to handle upgrades, and cheaper.

Now, hopefully prices will come down sometime soon.

How is this news?

[Have Blue]

I'd expect to read this in an ad banner, not an article. Is there anything that even remotely "matters" about this thing?

Re:How is this news?

[2Bits]

Come on man, your ID shows that you are an early /.er, and you should know better. /. is not really about news. It's about anything considered geeky, cool, neat. It's about a religion called Linux^H^H^HGNU/Linux, and it's about bashing MS. It's also about testing web server load and capability.

Honey, have you seen the computer....

[Ooblek]

Me: "Honey, have you seen the computer laying around anywhere? I need to fire up Quicken and pay some bills."

Wife: "I think the dog ate it. You better take a plastic bag with you when you take him for a walk."

This makes portable MP3 player take on a whole new meaning.

Swiss-based Company

[Indras]

Digital-Logic AG, a Swiss company, sells two rather cool BX-based mini PCs...

Both fully equipped with such powerful swiss inventions as a built in nail filer, toothpick, three different sized knives with replacement blades, tweezers, scissors, hair brush, cooking stove, VCR, TV, AM/FM radio, penguin food dispenser...

Go PowerPC

[gouldtj]

For that price I'd rather have a BriQ from the Yellow Dog Linux guys. It runs Linux, has a PowerPC inside.

Doesn't have the firewire though...

PC-104 also

[MrResistor]

Digital-Logic AG makes the most reliable PC-104 video card I've ever used. I never tried to use it for gaming, but it certainly held up to a lot of other abuse :)

Too bad they seem to be /.ed, I'd like to see what else they have.

Re:PC-104 also

[MrResistor]

Sure it could...

I was using it to test motherboards. I averaged about 4 or 5 a day, 5 or 6 days a week, for 8 months, and I don't even know how many the night shift guy did. Do you have any idea how much pr0n that is? Not to mention that since I was "testing" I had to have easy access to everything, so it was just laying there on the bench next to the monitor fully exposed to whatever might come flying it's way! I don't think it gets much more perilous than that for a video card!!!

Of the 3 that I started with, the Digital-Logic was the only one that survived. It was also the only one that never had any compatability problems (and yes, it works in Linux (SuSE 6.3 and Mandrake 7.0, which were unfortunately not part of the official tests), as do ELO touchscreens, though you have to hunt down the drivers).

Well.. its slashdotted.

[Restil]

But at those prices, I'm unlikely to buy one.

And from looking at the specs provided by the summary, it appears I could build an identical system for 1/4 the price, the only downside being size and perhaps power consumption.

As someone previously posted, for the lack of video options, a laptop would do just as nicely, although there aren't too many laptops with two ethernet adapters (but you could add an extra one via a pcmcia slot).

-Restil

External Power Supplies

[Bo Vandenberg]

I can see that an external power supply might run cooler outside the case.

I dont remember fans on external power supplies for things like the old Apple //c....

Is there anyone wise in the benefits and costs of external power supplies and whether you can use them for your own projects.

Bo

How is this remotely news and/or interesting?

[WIAKywbfatw]

Call me a troll if you want, but this is at least the third or fourth low footprint PC that has been featured on /. in the last couple of months of so.

And, as far as I can see, there is nothing special about this me-too box. It has no unique selling point at all - no low cost, no silent operation, no performance boost (relative to other mini PCs), no nada.

Now if there was something this box could do that other mini PCs couldn't do (especially those that have already been covered by /.), then I could see the point of posting this article. But, as it stands, this product is about as revolutionary as your grandma's apple pie.

Was it a real slow news day? Were there no better stories to submit? (I doubt it, as every other post seems to have at least one comment in which someone moans about the cool story that they submitted being rejected.)

Give us news for nerds. Give us stuff that matters. Don't give us re-runs.

(Sorry but I had to get it off my chest and it had to be said.)

Re:How is this remotely news and/or interesting?

[BlowCat]

Give us news for nerds. Give us stuff that matters. Don't give us re-runs.

That's the difference between slashdot and kuro5hin. I cannot imagine anybody on k5 screaming "give us this and give us that". You just vote for the stories you like and write your stories.

As for the device, it could probably serve as a good host-based 802.11a access point. You don't want to hang a laptop on the wall of your office, do you?

Re:How is this remotely news and/or interesting?

[connorbd]

The question I have: what would be so bloody hard about creating a MiniPC with the cost profile of an iOpener? The parts cost on those things was about $400 IIRC, and I'm sure that it wouldn't be all that hard to put together a P3-class MiniPC that would sell for ~$700 or so profitably.

/Brian

not powerful? what are you smoking?

[Splork]

since when is a 700Mhz P3 not a powerful system? last i checked it was still running just as fast as that 700Mhz P3 that you were drooling over two years ago.

Power supplies for this....

[morcheeba]

Another caveat: The power supply is external, but I didn't see any pictures of it on their website.

The specs are a bit confusing, but it looks like the thing takes 12-24V DC, and there is an optional AC adapter that can supply this (the detailed spec sheets were slashdotted). It's probably cutely packaged in a form factor similar to the PC. Here are the specs:

Input Voltage:12V - 24V DC-Input
Powersupply: 110/220V (60/50Hz)
Powerconsumtion: typ. 40W (700MHz)

For a general idea of what this external power supply could look like, check these power supplies from digikey; look for the specs above.

Here's one possible example (the surge/max current may be more, so to really pick the right supply you'd need more data):
FW50 (12 or 24v, 50W) 5"x3"x1.3" $54
EPS169-ND (24v, 50W) 4.1"x2.1"x1.2" $82.80

Think notebook power supply size.

Lame

[Crispin Cowan]

Well, that's lame. There are several examples of more attractive micro-PCs at more attractive prices. Here's some:

• EZAV: smaller form factor, similar power, about $900 configured reasonably. Advantage: has a video port. Disadvantage: only one NIC.
• American Portwell: little server appliances. No video, but three NICs, two USBs, and a serial port.

Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
Available for purchase

If you want a cube, aluminium case..

[zome]

Try this one
It's not very small, but does look good. Especially that black case, which should go very well with your new black flat panel :-)
And for those who remember Shuttle SV24, it uses the same MB, Shuttle FV24.

and the clones come marching in

[Lumpy]

My local Crack/d/d/d/d/d/d computer dealer just recieved a "cappuchino" look-alike recently. $395.00 for the unit without processor,HDD,ram,or cd drive. (cince it uses a special laptop Cd drive a 24X cdrom drive costs $199.00 and it get's worse from there.)

Basically you can buy a working unit at the max 256meg ram and a 20gig hdd,cd,1ghz PIII for about $899 now you need a monitor (if you buy a 21 inch crt for this I believe goons will come and beat you from behind the counter) so add a cheap 15" LCD - $399.00 and keybd+mouse. I can get a laptop for the same or lower price, not have the 256Meg max ram limit and can use it places other than my home AND get a decent video chipset. (Compaq EVO's are coming with radeon chipsets with 32 meg video ram)

Until they slash the prices of these tiny pc's in half or do a redesign to make them slightly larger but use normal parts. (if the cappuchino computer was the same size as a cdrom drive but twice as high, It could use a regular drive, normal ram and probably use a P-4.)

These computers are obviously gimmick devices for rich prissy snob women that cant stand the sight of a normal computer, or artsey freaks that can't allow the compter to clash with his all glass desk and imported German leather chair.. " I am gunther, this is the part in sprokets where we dance!".

Where to buy CHEAP mini PCs?

[Shiny Metal S.]

I need machines for X terminals.

TCSX-1 is the cheapest what I've found, but still $400 for 66MHz x86 with 16MB RAM is just too much. For that money I can buy a terminal server for them.

On the other hand, few weeks ago I bought an old Fujitsu ErgoPro X PC with Pentium 133MHz, 32MB RAM, PS/2 keyboard & mouse ports, 2MB SVGA, floppy drive and 100Mb/s network adapter, all for $25. It's a great machine, but I need something smaller.

Do you know where to find something smaller than that Fujitsu (a compact horizontal desktop case) but cheaper than that TCSX-1? Maybe building it from parts is the way to go?

Re:Where to buy CHEAP mini PCs?

[Shiny Metal S.]

32M 4xAGP VooDoo is way to much for me. It won't generate accelerated 3D graphics, so the memory for textures would be wasted anyway. 1024x768@16bpp, which is more than enough for me, fits in 2MB of video RAM. The gigabit ethernet is unfortunately not an option for me because of hubs prices, so I'll stick for 100Mb for some time.

The NIC, which AC told me about, is currently the best box of this kind to my knowledge. I would prefer, however, if it had no CD/modem/flashdisk and was cheaper without any stuff I don't need. I would love to see a box which is able to act as an X terminal, booting from network, without any moving parts, for something like $100. If the NIC cos ts $200 with all of the features, it would be possible to build a stripped version for $100.

I generally nead exactly TCSX-1, but four times cheaper... If only there was a TCSX-1 priced as optimally as the NIC, it would cost below $100... Oh, well... I'll try to find out where and for how much I can buy parts which they use. If anyone has any experience with buying and using such integrated board, similar to this board (I don't know what exactly it is, they only say in the spec what it has, not what model it is), please let me know. Thanks.

Another related topics,
What are the cheapest stand-alone:

• x86 processors (50+ MHz)
• mainboards
• ethernet adapters (100 Mb/s)
• VGAs (1+ MB)
• sound cards

available to buy as new today?
How does it compare to the same stuff integrated on one board?

It's very hard to find a low-end PC parts today, they don't sell processors with clock rates not measured in GHz in computer stores, you know...

After a quick Google search, I see there are lots of different single board PCs. I'll try to read about them and post the most interesting suff. If you know any of these boards, especially if you have used one of them with Linux Terminal Server or something similar (generally the most important is if you can run Linux on them without any problems) then please post it here. Btw, are there any cases available for them?