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Tandys Never Die
kevcol writes: "Great article on the SF Chronicle's website on a school bus driver in Contra Costa County California who heads a Tandy model 100 computer user group. The model 100 was the portable version of the beloved TRS-80 (jokingly known as the 'Trash 80') which was the first computer I ever laid fingers on in high school back in the day..."
I have a copy of these, and their red japanese cousin made by NEC (the pc8401, iirc).
:P
cute little things, run about a month on double AAs, have a Billy-Born MS basic, a directory listing with fancy arrow-key navigation, w00
They're tough as nails, anyway
--- Do you believe in the day?
I got a hold of one of these in high school and was very impressed by its size compared to the heavy ass suitcase portables available at the time. It had great accessories like the tape backup (audio tapes, mind you) and integrated 300 bps modem (you had to connect suction cup-like things to the phone line). You had to code some BASIC to get access to the tape and floppy drives though. Hmm...think the floppy was like 200Kbytes or something in that range. Ah, the memories...
The model 100 was the portable version of the beloved TRS-80
No. It wasn't.
It was a very useful "laptop" for it's time, but it was a TRS-80 like an IBM AT was a Macintosh.
Do some research fer crissake.
Now that I think of it, I don't think I ever saw him when he WASN'T totally baked. Seriously.
But he could do some cool stuff with it.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Amstrad CPC Emulators, Apple II Emulators, Arcade Emulators (Multi-Game), Arcadia 2001 Emulators, Atari 2600 Emulators, Atari 5200 Emulators, Atari 7800 Emulators, Atari Lynx Emulators, Coleco Emulators, Commodore 64 Emulators, Magnavox Odyssey Emulators, MSX Emulators, NeoGeo Emulators, NES Emulators, Odyssey Emulators, Sega Genesis Emulators, Sega Master System Emulators, TurboGrafx16 Emulators, Vectrex Emulators.
Which means this tandy is prehistoric
i could swear i read another /. post on almost exactly the same topic, but my searches come up bare.
anyone else remember this? it was about the same tandy computers, and someone in the comments said s/he was using them for some kind of rugged research purposes, maybe marine...
...or maybe i'm smoking too much crack. but i'm allllmost sure...
This Like That - fun with words!
One of the problems with all the "retro" computing (like the above Tandy club) is that even if you *want* to be interested in joining, you need to find or have the particular old-piece-of-hardware.
If there's an emulator (which unfortunately there doesn't seem to be), then it means anyone can join in... though in a lot of cases emulators (well, the ROMs) are illegal.
- CZ
-- Shaun "Blessed are the geeks, for they shall Internet the earth"
Nowhere near as old as the one in the article, but I had a 1000RL (8086 8mhz I think) and when I upgraded to a better machine, sent the Tandy to my cousins in the Phillipines. Their house had no air conditioning, and the machine was situated in a room that often reached well over 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the midday sun. The house is in a fishing village and is often plagued with floods and monsoons.
I visited the summer the year after and the machine worked flawlessly. I managed to play a Tandy BASIC minigolf game but had to stop because it was way too hot in the room. This continued for a few more years, and about 8 years after my initial purchase of the machine, it stopped working during a visit. I opened the case to discover it had become home to some large native flying insects... which got fried inside. In a weird sort of way, the heat didn't but also did manage to kill it eventually. Those conditions were definitely out of the bounds of a "normal operating environmeny" and I was amazed it lasted so long.
Buying a Tandy again is pretty much out of the question, but during my ownership they certainly grew on me. The RL's 3-voice PCM sound capability allowed me to exercise my interest in sound programming. Had a subscription to a Tandy magazine (can't remember which one) and specifically looked for programs that supported the special Tandy graphics. As my first (IBM-compatible) PC, it served its purpose well, letting my preteen self learn about programming, proprietariness, and patience. It was a great machine for a hobbyist.
Perhaps we were smoking the same batch? I've just searched through the archives also and can't come up with it either.
i wrote (in basic) my first video games on an old trash 80... some horrible ansi gfx tanks running around avoiding asterisks... lol those were the days!
my programming eventually ran into the limitations of the 7 1/2" disks.
if only i had cd burner in that thing!! lol
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
...shouldn't throw rocks. There was really no such thing as a uber-TRS-80. It was a code designation for a number of computers made by Tandy Radio Shack using the Z-80 microprocessor. The Model 100 portable was as much of an "official" TRS-80 as the original Model I or business-oriented Model II or FCC-approved Model III etc etc etc....
If you want to buy one, go to EBay. Notice the TRS-80 moniker located upper right in the photo...
Yes, I lusted after a Model 100 when they came out (this is what they looked like if you've never seen one...) but I ended up buying the even more useful Tandy PC-2 pocket computer. It was amazing how many Physics and Chemistry equations you could store in 3.5K. Never would have made it through the core curriculum in college without my artificial memory...;)
"It remains to be seen if the human brain is powerful enough to solve the problems it has created." Dr. Richard Wallace
The model 100 had no floppy interface, though there were external 3 1/2 floppy units available at the time. It did have a built in 300 bps modem The standard modem interface was a DIN 9 adapter on the side of the unit in which RS sold a DIN 9 to RJ-11 cable, though RS did sell an acoustic coupler for use with pay phones. Next to the modem was a secondary cassette tape interface. The screen displayed 40 cols by 8 lines, LCD. It shipped with 8K RAM in its original configuration, though it could be upgraded to 48K. The main CPU was an 8085, not a Z-80. It was in no way binary compatible with the original TRS-80.
This is an important point, the TRS-80 Model I, III, and IV was a completely different computer system from the Model 100. They weren't compatible in any way whatsoever. Just like the Model 11 and 16 wasn't compatible with the model 1/III/IV. Totally different systems. At one point I ran a BBS off of a model I for four years from 1982 to 1986, which my family originally bought in 1977. It was a good computer for its time, though it generated way too much RFI, the buffered expansion interface cable often broke requiring replacement, and the B/W monitor which shipped with the model 1 was junk. The computer, however, was fast with a 1.77 MHz Z-80. Oh well, enough memory lane...
Cheers,
--Maynard
I never had a model 100 but I loved my CoCo, Color Computer. One of the first that could actualy multi-task with a third-part OS, and you could use those new-fangled 3.5 inch floppy disks to replace audio cassets for mass-storage, transfered at 1500 baud. Tandy had some real cutting edge stuff in its day.
my first computer COSMAC ELF that never actualy ran, and used a RCA 1802 processor, 255 bytes of static ram, yes that bytes not kilobytes. input was done by setting a toggle switch to LOAD, setting the 8 toggle switches to match the bytes bit pattern and pressing the single-step button! The "mother=board was wire-wrapped.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
"Which explains a whole heck of alot about NASA's current dilemmas."
i dunno... back in the day when i used to code on my trash-80 coco2 and 3, "stability" was never a problem, it wasnt even an issue to be discussed. We all took for granted that you COULDN'T crash your computer unless you you started really fusking with the OS, or did something to crash it on purpose.. aside from that, i would probly trust a trash-80 to run my life support if i had to choose that or a pc.. (yea sure sure, linux, whatever, till someone "gets root" and then really DOES 0wN J00)
Hey, where else are you going to get a big, cheap, sturdy unit, with a full sized keyboard, that's more powerful than a calculator, and lasts for two months on a couple of AA's. I think it'd be ideal for scientist who don't need the power or cost of modern laptop, but want a solid unit with a big keyboard.
-me
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I have an idea - if these things are so great, how about making a new one with PalmOS. It could be very thin, color screen, still run on 4 AAs... I might even buy one! It could probably sell for under $200.
When the Model 100 first came out it had very little memory (16k?). An acquaintance of mine asked if I could help with a programming project on the Model 100. He was a 'numbers' runner (illegal lottery conducted in the poorer sections of the city) and he wanted to keep track of the numbers that were bet. To avoid heavy losses he had to 'lay off' the numbers that were bet too heavily by betting those numbers with someone else. Bets were typically $.25 to $2.00 always in $.25 increments. When he tried to do the job with an M100 there wasn't enough space for the single precision values. I rewrote the program to handle the bets as integer values of quarters (Number 6666 has 450 quarters bet on it so lay off everything above 200 quarters) The amounts were displayed in real floating point values and his helpers knew immediately when a number got bet too heavily. The amounts don't sound like much but the payoff odds were very high. That Model 100 saved a lot of money.
I also bought one of the tiny little ones, and still use it. Mine is labelled as per the subject line even though it doesn't have a Z-80 in it, and the keyboard layout is a little different than yours: see a picture of it here. According to that page, mine was introduced in 1980, but I bought it in 1983 when the line was discontinued for the whopping price of $CAD 65 (including the soft case and cassette interface).
John Stiles has the definitive collection that run on Macs at emulation.net
I've got some info about the Model 100 and 102 on my site at:
1 02/
1 02/web100/
http://www.ordersomewherechaos.com/rosso/fetish/m
You can also find a link to the interview where Billy Goates discusses the fact that this was the last project where he personally worked on a majority of the code.
Also, I've got a back up of a pretty good web site called Web 100
http://www.ordersomewherechaos.com/rosso/fetish/m
Enjoy...
I read a few years ago that the 100 was popular with reporters in undeveloped places. Built in modem (that worked over lousy phone lines). Zero boot time. Enough memory for a few articles. Rugged. Here's an article: article
When I was in graduate school studying rhetoric, all the journalism folks swore by these things. They fit in a briefcase, they had a real keyboard, and they ran forever. It was (still is in my opinion) a great tool for writing anywhere.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Model I / Model III / Model 4/4P - The original TRS-80, used a Z-80 processor at 1.77 MHz. The Model I had 64x16 video, 4K to 48K RAM, and separate keyboard, video, expansion interface, and disk drives. It came standard with BASIC in ROM, and cassette tape (250 bps at first, then 500 bps). The optional 5.25" floppies held about 90K (that is NOT a typo).
The Model III was nearly identical except it put it all in one box. The big change was the availability of double-density floppies (180K).
The Model 4 looked like a Model III, but was entirely RAM-based. It held up to 128K RAM (woohoo!!), though the upper 96K was accessible as one of three 32K banks. The Model 4 also added 80x24 video. The 4P was a Model 4 in a luggable case.
The Model I/III/4 series all ran an operating system called TRSDOS. These three models were mostly upwards-compatible.
The Model II followed the Model I chronologically (and preceded the Model III - imagine that). The Model II was their business system. It had a 4 MHz Z80 processor with 32K to 64K of RAM. It had 80x24 video. It used 8" floppy drives - up to four of them - holding 600K each. It contained an internal card cage for expansion.
The Model II was a tank. The main unit was about the size of a small dorm-type refrigerator, and probably weighed about 40-50 pounds. The external floppy drive cabinet was almost as big. The Model II was the first to offer a hard drive - 8 MB on 8" platters - the cabinet was about two foot square, and about 6" high, about like an oversized desktop PC today.
The Model II ran a different and completely incompatible OS, also called TRSDOS. It was completely disk-based, containing only a minimal boot ROM. Model II software was not compatible with Model I/III/4 software.
The Model II was followed by the Model 12 - same basic system with half-height, double-sided 8" floppy drives. Slightly smaller cabinet with up to two internal 1.2 MB floppies.
The Model II/12 was later used as the core of the Motorola 68000-based Model 16. The Model 16 used the entire MII Z-80 architecture as its I/O processing subsystem. The Model 16 included a 6 MHz 68000 and supported up to 256K of RAM. The 68000 processor and its memory boards were separate cards that installed in the MII card cage. The operating system and application ran on the 68000 side.
The Model 16 came with TRSDOS 16 (another incompatible variant), but the real power came once Xenix was offered. Xenix was a port of System III UNIX enhanced with a lot of BSD features. At one time, Tandy had the largest install base of UNIX-based systems. They weren't very big, no more than nine users, but there were a lot of them. I supported about 18 of them where I worked at the time.
The Model 16 series peaked with the introduction of the Tandy 6000. This still contained the basic Model II architecture - you could still dual-boot to Z80 TRSDOS, but the design was updated to focus on Xenix use. It included an 8 MHz 68000, up to 1 MB of memory, and ultimately up to four 70 MB hard drives.
Having established itself as the leader in UNIX for small business, and having invested substantial time and dollars in building a relatively effective suppport infrastructure for UNIX, Tandy made the brilliant decision to abandon that market and focus exclusively on PC clone systems. Given their prominence in the PC world today, you can see how well that worked. The executive behind this decision later moved to Microsoft.
OK, that's the history of their original Z-80 family.
Totally separate from this, Tandy offered the Model 100 mentioned in this article. It was based on an 80C85 processor (low power - CMOS - version of the 8080, with a handful of additional instructions) and was entirely RAM-based, i.e., it had no internal floppy or hard drives. It was a stand-alone product line, completely incompatible with their other systems. The 100 was followed by the 200, and then the 600, as I recall.
Tandy's third PC line was their Color Computer ("Coco") series. All of the systems I mentioned above were strictly monochrome and used some form of monitor. The Color Computer was their launch into home TV-based systems. Again, IIRC, the Coco series were all based on the 6809 processor. The Coco series initially used cartridges and cassette tapes. Later, a floppy disk upgrade was offered using Microware's OS-9 operating system (pretty cool in its own right, similar to UNIX in many respects).
Moving on, Tandy also offered several pocket-style computers over the years. They also offered a series of PC-compatibles (more or less) beginning with the Tandy 1000. As a UNIX biggot, I didn't follow the line closely. Again, IIRC, the 1000 was a PCjr clone and the 1200 was a strict PC XT clone.
The Tandy 2000 was a high performance MS-DOS PC, offering an 80186 a year or so before IBM offered the AT. There was a version of Xenix for the 2000, but it didn't make it into the wild very often. The 2000 was followed by the 3000 and 4000 (both 286-based, I think). They were offered with Xenix, but never gained the penetration of the 16/6000 line. Tandy also offered a 5000 - I think this was their micro-channel clone. (Anyone remember micro-channel?)
That's the history off the top of my head. There were a couple of other one-of models scattered through this, and after the 3000 & 4000, Tandy moved full-bore into forgettable PC clones. In its early days, however, Tandy was neck-and-neck with Apple for most computers sold.
Yes, I need a life.
The original batch of Model 100's were under the TRS-80 brand. Then, Tandy Corp. dropped the TRS-80 brand from its entire line, when it became the Tandy Model 100. Then, the word "Model" was removed, and became the Tandy 100, then the Tandy 102. Clamshell versions were released under the Tandy 2xx line. As mentioned earlier, these were closer to souped-up TRS-80 Pocket Computers rather than scaled-down TRS-80 desktops. Meaning, Tandy 100's didn't run TRS-DOS. This doesn't mean much because TRS-DOS was customized for each model leaving 5 relatively incompatible families of TRS-80 machines: Models I, III and the IV/4 lines; Models II, 12, 16, etc.; Color Computers; Pocket Computers; and Models 10x-2xx.
(from a RadioShack alum and Tandy enthusiast... won my first few amateur programming competitions on Trash-80s)You're right about "real" TRS-80's using a Z80 CPU, but the Tandy Model 100 didn't use a Z80 at all. It ran an 8085, like the processor used in the Mars Soujourner robot. Instruction sets are similar though between the Z80, 8080, and 8085.
And while we're talking subtle CPU differences... the Game Boy does not use a Z80 either, but its CPU's instruction set is a close subset of it, only with a bunch of registers and opcodes removed. This is/was very frustrating for a Z80 programmer at first! Sega's (color) GameGear from the same era did use a true Z80 processor.
A fair number of journalists *still* use these little gems.
Why, you ask? Besides the fact that they have a very useable word processor and run for weeks on a handful or batteries, there is a biggie.
You can type quite quickly on them with one hand without having to set it down on something. That is something that you simply cannot say about a modern clam-shell laptop.
I mounted a 16K model-100 on the wall - with the powercord hidden by the dry-wall. It has a crappy "Draw-Random-Lines-And-Pereodically-Clear-The-Scr
It's easily the most facinating thing, for my guests, in my house. It's a reminder to me that computing doesen't have to be high-powered and expensive in order to make our quality of life better.
Side note - the things have a built in 300 Baud modem and a serial port (typical Radio-Shack DIN-5 style), I have another one that I hookup to all the OpenBSD routers/firewalls that I've installed for my clients - the batteries never seem to run out.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
So, if this is the kind of laptop you like, you can get modern alternatives, and they even run software for which you can get development systems.
I remember it too, but maybe he was using the CoCo 1 or II?
I wrote my first book on a Model 100. It's a great machine, much better than a laptop or a WinCE PDA these days.
Instant on, battery life on the order of 20 hours with a few AA cells, no moving parts so no need to be delicate, display with large pixels easily readable in sunlight or lamplight, very light, full-size keyboard... to get your data into your PC, you just connect it to the serial port and "capture" your data using a program like Procomm, Telix or (for those of you who are a little younger) HyperTerminal. On a Unix system, you just redirect it from the right device to a file. Nice and simple and clean.
Why did I stop using mine? It got stolen at a public library when I turned my back for about a second and a half. Seriously, whoever stole it must have been waiting to snatch it and run like the wind. I looked into replacing it (the theft occurred in the early '90s) but they were still quite expensive at that time.
I bought a 386 laptop instead but regretted it afterward because the M100 was a much better machine with much better ergonomics.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
You're assuming that 1. everyone that visits /. is in the US and 2. nobody has internet access anywhere else in the world. In reality, people worldwide visit /. at all hours of the day.
Ah, the Tandy Pocket Computers... always wanted one of those. I actually every so often still want one, and then I realize that a) I carry around a PalmPilot and b) I can get a TI-83 for about $100... still, it would be nice.
/Brian
I know several people who still use their Tandy 100's on a daily basis. Those things are amazingly tough, and amazingly long-lasting in the battery department. (Imagine running one of those on a set of 1800 mAh NiMHs! :) ) I've found Tandy 100's in all sorts of places in my travels (garage sales, flea markets, thrift stores) and all of them were still functional. And they're amazingly light as well. When all you need is a note-taking machine or maybe a simple text terminal, you can't beat the Tandy 100. Sure beats lugging around a laptop.
The only problem I see is in getting the files out to yoru regular computer. But if memory serves me correctly, there were ports on the thing (I'm pretty sure it had a parallel port, and I seem to recall it having a serial as well). I think there was even an internal modem option available(? - correct me if I'm wrong please). And since the thing had BASIC on it, I suppose you could hack together a crude file transfer program of sorts.
Yomigaeru Aiyan Geek!!!
Yes, there are plenty of ways to get data in & out - serial, parallel, audio-cassette, 300baud modem. There is a freeware MS-DOS program that allows a PC to talk to it over a serial line and emulate a disk drive so the M100 can save & retrieve files by name.
Some hams even hooked it up to packet radio devices to run it wireless.
Still, though, it's oddly reassuring to know that these things are still out there doing stuff.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Maybe if slashdot's search functionality didn't SUCK MY ASS, we could use it to find out. I use google to search slashdot, just add site:slashdot.org to your query.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
i remember when the modell 100 came out, even then i thought, the machine was just so "right". think about how the machine could have been wrong.
if it came out with a one line display or, even more likley, a chicklet keyboard like the one used on the first version of the color computer, it would've been a curiosity, remembered like the sinclair zx computers are recalled today. but because the 100 had just the right combination of elements (real keyboard, a two dimensional display, a full set of I/O ports, and really useful applications) it's remebered as one of the most successful alternative computers at the dawn of the peecee era.
the model 100 had plenty of competition. luggable computers, pocket computers, etc. when i was in college, the school got a "great deal" on portable computers from texas instruments. one was issued to every incoming freshman that year. they were about the same size as the model 100, but only had a single line display and a chicklet keyboard. and they never went beyond being curiosities and playthings. the coolest thing about them was that with a simple command you could change their language from english to german.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
This model just happened to be the most portable of the Trash-80 line. I ran into a TRS-80 4P when I was in high school. Yes, this is the TRS-80 model 4 - portable. 30 pound behemoth that needed to be plugged into the wall. Ok, it wasn't very portable, but on the bottom of the machine, it claimed to be portable! C'mon, it had a handle!
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I remember this as well. In fact, I bookmarked the site the first time around. I double checked the second I saw this article to make sure it was the same site. Sure enough...
It was either on here or on HardOCP, but I just don't remember.
...the TRS-80 books on BASIC were/are the BEST I have ever seen. I would use them on a college level because they break it down so nicely.
I couldn't agree more. I've been looking for copies of those books for a couple years now. Mainly just to find out who wrote them so I can get my hands on books of that caliber in real languages such as C.
I've looked for them on eBay and seen similar books, but never the ones that came with my CoCo 3. Programing in Extended Color BASIC 3, I think it was called. And of course there were a couple others, referance manuals and a guide to working with and programing for the optional 5 1/4" disk drive.
If you (or anyone for that matter) can tell me who actually WROTE those books (especially the main BASIC book for the CoCo 3) or point me to where I can pick one up myself, please let me know!
They were literaly written so well a 6 year old could understand them and start writing real programs (not just "Hello world!"). I know, because I *was* 6 when I started using my CoCo 3.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
1) NASA likes to buy milspec stuff, and I think it was a milspec IC
2) How would you like to send the latest and greatest (and more complicated and fragile) CPU to Mars only to find out it can't divide properly? Most (all?) off the bugs in the 8045 (if I remember the chip - I could be wrong) were known when it was sent - it was already many many years old and well understood when the mission left the launchpad.
The Model 100 portable was as much of an "official" TRS-80 as the original Model I or business-oriented Model II or FCC-approved Model III etc etc etc
Groovy. I'll put a Ford logo on my laptop and then I'll be able to drive it to work.
The Model 100 wasn't a "portable version" of anything - it was a platform in and of itself. That was my point. You can put a "TRS-80" sticker on a grizzly bear if you care to, just don't expect it to load and run Android Nim.
I liked the dual-monitor CoCo that was linked on your page...now that's a hack. The choice of graphics chip was interesting (said by someone who has a TI-99/4A and a CoCo 2, among other machines). Who says you need new hardware to do that? :-)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I used a 102, the updated model, in law school *87-88). It came with 24k, and I never got around to getting the 8k chip to put in the empty socket when they dropped down to $5 or so.
At the time in san diego, there was a bbs that actually *ran* on one of these (1.2mhz 8080 equiv, 300 baud internal pulse dialing modem).
I had the expansion disk, but it wasn't much use--50k (100k? ) on a 3.5" disk. I usually just threw the files to a basic program on a mac to catch them. I also found a program that would run on my XT to let it serve as a "Disk" for the 102 (the disk connected by standard rs-232).
The display was an amazing 8x40, though there was a function key to display the other/prior 8 lines. You could also bit address the pixels.
The simple flat design still beats the clamshell laptop design if you're just typing in text; it's much easier to balance.
It wanted 4 AA batteries for something like 20 hours on alkalines. Some folks used an empty bit of case to hold a 5th to use nicads--which were 1.2v rather than 1.5. I just used 4 nicads, and it lasted longer than if I'd made the mod(CMOS current draw is proportional to voltage applied).
I still occasionally haul it out.
hawk