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Industry Agrees On Next Gen Unified DVD Standard
scsirob writes "According to this press release the DVD recording industry will end the DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVD-RAM mess and standardise on a new technology called 'Blue Ray'. Blue lasers are used to record up to 27 GB on each side of the DVD. This initiative is backed by all major players in the industry. The article contains many technical details." Several other people noted that the BBC has coverage as well. Yah for non-company specific industry standards.
In addition, the adoption of a unique ID written on a Blu-ray Disc realizes high quality copyright protection functions.
:)
wonder how long it'll take for some 15-year-old to be tried as an adult and tossed in the pokey for cracking this one...
15 minutes.. a day maybe?
Provided there is ever a way to record these on your own like a regular CD (without spending thousands, that is), these could be excellent for archival purposes.
Currently, my only solution for backups of my drives are other drives. Sure, tapes work, but they take far too long. Being able to dump the essentials from my hard drive (being a 3D designer, that's easily 30 gigs of textures, models, etc) onto one disc would be a lifesaver.
Let's just hope these things aren't so crippled by the time we get them that their apparent benefits aren't overshadowed by idiotic "protection" schemes.
Either way, I think that whoever is first to get a really high-capacity (tens of GB) consumer-level removable optical storage format on the market will be the one who defines the new standard, unless the later competitor is a lot cheaper or better.
HDTV.
i'm finding it a common misperception that mpeg-4 is automatically assumed to be "better" than mpeg-2. mpeg-2 works really well in situations where broadcast quality (or better) video is needed, and space isn't necessarily a limiting factor. A bitrate of 4mb per second and judicious use of the AFF (advanced field frame) tech will get you amazing quality video and sound. Mpeg-4 comes into it's own and is useful in situations where space is an issue. 27G (per side?) is more than enough for a movie, or two... with a lot of extras thrown in.
as my daddy use to say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Curious by its absence is any mention of DRM. Since I doubt that this new format will lack DRM, I would assume this ommision is because this new format will be locked down tighter than the Windows XP sourcecode repository against the states' representatives.
What do you want to bet this time the "CSS" is designed so that it cannot be brute-forced, and that the manufacturer keys are better locked down?
Lastly, I see lots of discusson on the Matsushita site about digital video, but none about raw data storage - I hope they didn't make the same mistake the CD folks did and not consider data storage up front.
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"It is possible for the Blu-ray Disc to record digital high definition broadcasting while maintaining high quality and other data simultaneously with video data if they are received together. In addition, the adoption of a unique ID written on a Blu-ray Disc realizes high quality copyright protection functions."
For those who bought either DVD-R(W) or DVD+RW nothing changes. Todays players (standalone and DVD-ROMs) can play your discs fine. DVD-R plays everywhere, I have found no player, where it doesn't work.
;-)
;-) They will have full world-wide control over the format, things like region-protection will probably be better enforced, because of their monopoly in the market.
;-) And the DVR-A-03 is very cheap too.
...
To the future: This new format is a next generation format. 27GB per layer is a very cool capacity. Combined with MPEG2 and AC3 whole seasons of 'startrek' may be on one disc. But on the other hand: have you looked at the sizes of DVDs lately: they are big like nearly 9GB. Viewed at 27GB from this side it's actually small. It's the bare minimum
The physical problems with DVDs are scratches. The more capacity there is on the disc the more problems you get.
What I like about this announcement is that all major players are on the list, this is positive: nobody will have choose the "better" format, this is also the negative thing
To those who need DVD-R right now, nothing has changed, buy a player, I've seen discs as cheap as $3
For those who want a DVD-video recorder: WAIT for this new format, this will really enhance the VCR experiance: direct access and capacity
In the press release, they make mention of provisions for a unique ID (aka: a serial number) on each disc to help curb/stop piracy.. this, to me, is the media's biggest problem. I imagine that unlike CSS (which the studio's botched) they'll do the smart thing and use the unique ID to somehow watermark the data and/or video content of these new discs. Some might see this as good (if the studio's actually do the logical thing and allow fair use copying again, unlike DVD), but I can see a situation where the studio's turn this around and use it to track down offenders for individual prosecution. (Something that I've never seen them do, but when you've got these kinds of smoking guns (the watermark being found in some DiVX ripped copy on the net), you gotta wonder if they can really contain themselves from blasting people into the afterlife with their "lawyer death ray"...)
Otherwise I love the technology, I've been hearing about blue-laser technology and optical discs since I was a kid (I'm in my mid-20's now), it's good to see it finally coming of age.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
I wonder what pressure caused this voluntary unification to take place?
Normally when a company has large commercial sucess with a proprietary format, it simply "goes with it" and the competition be damned. Perhaps the sucess of each of these formats was far less than expected, forcing this collaboration.
Certainly it will mean cheaper media and drives for everyone, less consumer confusion and A Better Ride®.
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In addition, the adoption of a unique ID written on a Blu-ray Disc realizes high quality copyright protection functions.
I assume this to mean that it'll employ the next generation of CSS encryption. For one thing, MPAA and friends have probably learned their lesson: don't roll your own stream cipher. For another, it's now legal to export products using 128-bit encryption from the United States; the regulations in effect when DVD CSS was standardized permitted only 40-bit.
Or is this just a try to make movies even LARGER so cable and DSL users can't share movies in high quality anymore?
At a point, the detail becomes so fine that the human eye can't distinguish it. XviD (a fork of the last free DivX 4 release) attempts to find that point.
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I watched Snatch 5 times on Monday... wonder how they'd interpret that
They'd think you've got took much spare time.
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Alot of companies forget when they introduce a new technology, that it is better to agree on the standard that is going to be used and to compete on the final hardware. Good examples here are the GSM-standard and VHS-standard. There are competitors of these standards, and sometimes they are even technically better, but companies or countries investing in these rival technologies have found they lost money. This was only because the winning technology was backed broader and offered more services. (yes VHS offered a premium service that some other didn't, Pr0n).
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Why didn't they just jumped over a couple of generations to the X-Ray Disk?
Possible advantages are:
- Unbelievable data storage capacity (X-Rays wavelength is around 1/10000 of the one for blue light - this means 10000 times more data or 200TB per side).
- X-Ray Disk is a cooler sounding name.
- X-Ray Disk players would be almost impossible to steal (they would weight a ton, most of it being the lead anti-radiation protection)
For those buying, pick up the the player, the recorder, the DVD playable media, and the recordable media and pay for the transactions in cash. Give no identifying information.
The unique IDs are still present, but are now meaningless unless they can be traced back through a single internet userid to an actual individual. Then they can be used as evidence when a search warrant is executed, and the equipment is matched to the compromised unique IDs.
Mixmaster remailers and mail to news gateways, or non-centralized P2P strongly encrypted data streams may be the order of the day for those wishing to share copies of movies. In the P2P model though, you _could_ end up sharing your movie with someone who works for the MPAA, and then an encrypted P2P path won't necessarily help you. The mixmaster path might still work.
All the industry needs to do is successfully track and prosecute a few individuals (who weren't careful enough) in the first year after releasing the new watermarked media and equipment, make sure the cases are publicized widely, and they'll have successfully generated the public feeling of caution and fear that will keep _most_ people honest. Then they only need to make sure one or two instances get prosecuted/publicized per year as a public "reminder" that it doesn't pay to screw with the MPAA.
Am I happy about this? No... It casts a chilling effect on people who really _do_ want to use stuff fairly within the concept of "fair use" such as making personal backups, or using pieces of media for educational purposes.
And frankly, if the industry can't make their content interesting enough that a majority of people want to rush right out and buy it, then they should just admit that their stuff is priced too high to spark interest, or that they need to pay more attention to the quality.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I don't expect them to listen to me at all.
Wonderful. So I suppose you'll be required to pay credit for the DVD, not cash, so you can be tracked later? Might as well force you to present valid picture ID to purchase the disc. And if you choose to sell the disc later, what happens if the purchaser decides to use it illegally? So will you have to register with the government as a DVD Distributor? After all, the anti-gun lobby in the USA tries to do the same things for transactions involving guns. So are DVDs as dangerous as firearms? It sure sounds like it.
This kind of Orwellian nonsense rarely happens, at least in the USA. Gun laws are one exception. I suspect it's simply because there's a line (public safety, or waste of tax dollars, etc.) that hasn't been crossed for most consumer purchases, even when they cost some corporation some money. The average American citizenry, taken as a whole, doesn't vote with their dollars and ballots for this kind of nonsense, even when corporations do, and in the end, it's the government, NOT the corporations, that do the arresting. Enough stories of this sort of nonsense get around, the government HAS to pull back, despite what some MPAA lawyers want.
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Because MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 have two very different design purposes.
MPEG-2 was developed for highest quality video. On the consumer end, DVDs use bitrates around 8-10Mbps and on the professional end MPEG-2 4:2:2 is something huge like 45Mbps. The compression makes it more managable but it's really just a cursory thing, throw away redundant frame area, etc.
Now on the other hand MPEG-4 was developed for highest possible compression. Your basic DivX file is around 1Mbps or so and looks pretty darn good. But the compression doesn't ramp up...I think it tops out at around 4Mbps. That's probably sufficient for most consumer applications but the professionals need more.
MPEG-4 will continue to be the format of choice for streaming video or other things where bandwidth cost and availablity is the main issue. But MPEG-2 will continue to be the choice in closed systems like cable networks, tv studios, digital theaters, etc.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
The casual coppier who rips a DVD, converts it to divx:-) and sends it off to the world is not really the concern of the big studios. They want to own the Asian market, and right now it's owned by the bulk-coppiers.
;-)
Of course, all a unique ID gets them is to know where the bulk coppier in question got the first DVD. I can see it now: "yup, we're certain that Mr. Smith bought this DVD with a stolen credit card from Amazon and had it shipped to a field in Thailand. We'll get right on it!"
At one of my forays to Fry's to purchase an X-box, they not only took my money, but also entered the serial number of the box into their system. Since this was paid for by a credit card, they have all the info necessary to track the item back to me.
Now I understand paying with cash can help solve the above problem, but if resellers are forced to track the serial numbers, they will -- no matter now many John Smith 123 Main St USA they have in their database.
Considering how things are going with IP and the draconian measures being taken, I would not doubt that blanks and drives, when they become available, must be sold as a traceable item.
If the whole thing is too onerous, simply making the players/recorders "call home" a'la TiVo would serve the same purpose.
The next step is to tie the consumer's identification in a traceable manner. The only way to do that is to tie the consumer to the serial numbers. That way they can know what we record, and possibly what we watch.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
It ramps out at around 4Mbps for a standard TV signal because there's very little more to encode, have you *looked* at a video at 4Mbps? A HDTV version (about 6x the pixels) would use 6x the bitrate (the maximum setting is 6Mbps at the moment, but that doesn't have anything to do with the actual encoding algorithm, it's just a noumber set as an upper limit on a scale because 99.999% don't need any more than that at the moment.)
Broadcast production have a different set of requirements, they'd rather compress it as little as at all possible (for editing, archival purposes), and they don't want to deal with multiple formats. They just want a line to go camera -> editing -> sender (oversimplified) without hassle or loss of quality. This goes for TV studios and also for digital theaters.
Contrary to your +5, Insigtful I think the cable companies would like to give you 100 channels instead of 25, or PPV, or broadband.
Kjella
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Bluray? Darnit! I got a DVD player because I wanted more clarity!
/pun