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France: Criminal Charges Against Yahoo's Ex-CEO

Hank Reardon writes: "According to this C|NET article, former Yahoo CEO Timothy Koogle is being charged criminally for allowing the sale of various Nazi memorabilia on Yahoo's auctions pages. Ther article notes that the charges were filed in regardless of the offending items being removed from the French Yahoo! pages. Is it just me or do the lines between national and international law seem to be blurring?"

56 comments

  1. FIRST POST by 42forty-two42 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    My first, too!

  2. So what... by fluffhead · · Score: 2

    the chances of him being extradited for something like this are pretty slim, I'd expect. So he can't go to France or any of its territories from now on, big deal.

    --

    #include "disclaim.h"
    "All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
    1. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      or any of its territories

      What territories?!

      ~~~

    2. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chief of State is Jacques Chirac, so I'd guess this place.

    3. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Wow! I learned something today! I thought he might have been speaking of Algeria, which was long gone. Thanks!

      ~~~

    4. Re:So what... by Lord+Sauron · · Score: 2

      Not only this. He also won't be able to french kiss. And forget french fries.

    5. Re:So what... by Lord+Sauron · · Score: 3, Interesting
      THESE territories
      namely

      Bassas da India Mayotte

      Clipperton Island New Caledonia

      Europa Island Reunion

      French Guiana Saint Pierre & Miquelon

      French Polynesia Tromelin Island

      French Southern & Antartic Lands Wallis &

      Futuna

      Glorioso Islands

      Guadeloupe

      Juan De Nova Island

      Martinique

    6. Re:So what... by Lord+Sauron · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Sorry, I copied an incomplete list in the last message (damn tables). Here's the end of the list.

      Mayotte

      New Caledonia

      Reunion

      Saint Pierre & Miquelon

      Tromelin Island

      Wallis & Futuna

    7. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well if they get the dodgy pan europe arrest warent no where in the EU

    8. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Damn. Quite an empire--I guess surrender isn't such a bad strategy after all. Thanks!

      ~~~

    9. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody please explain to me how the above message got a 2 score.

      I'm not French, nor am I buying a ticket to go there... but it *is* a beautiful country.

      Besides, even if it was just plain rock and desert, how can one despise a country and get 2?

      If it's /. fault, please correct this. If this is the opinion from the audience, maybe I should start learning French. >:-[

    10. Re:So what... by fluffhead · · Score: 2

      Mostly it is a "2" because I have karma to burn (47 at last count). I was mostly kidding, or maybe "trolling" is a better word. So mod me down already.... I have been to Paris and it is very beautiful (even though it was quite frigid in November 1999 when I went). Et aussi, je parle assez bien en francais, et j'aime bien les francais et les francophones. However the anti-Nazi-stuff laws (which incidentally are even worse in Germany), seem silly &/or misguided to those of us who have grown up in the U.S. under the protection of the (albeit steadily eroding) First Amendment. Ban conduct, not communication.

      --

      #include "disclaim.h"
      "All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
    11. Re:So what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget French Guiana. No A-bombs dropped there.

  3. Bon Jour, es Franc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuckez vous.

  4. Freedom of speech? by tfurrows · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't supression of this sort akin to the supression the Nazis encouraged?

    Also, though the Nazi movement is an embarrasing (to say the absolute least) stain on the history of mankind, is not not nonetheless a piece of our history.

    I would hate to have our children forget about the horrors the Nazis caused, and censorship of this kind seems to be aimed at that.

  5. I can see him now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Ooh! I've been issued an arrest warrant by a bunch of gutless, censorship loving surrender monkeys!

    If I were he, I'd go to Germany, join the open source movement in the Bundestag, and get ready for the tanks of the Fourth Reich to start rolling triumphantly through Paris.

    ~~~

  6. In other news... by DeLabarre · · Score: 5, Funny

    When Koogle vowed to vigorously defend himself in court, France immediately surrendered.

    --

    In the Star Trek evil Mirror Universe, virtuoso cellist Yo-Yo Ma is gangsta hiphop star DJ Yo Ma-Ma.

  7. This is pretty dumb. by Klaruz · · Score: 2

    So if some random person runs into a store in france and stick some nazi stuff with a price tag on the shelf, the gov can punish the store?

    After all, they were selling it, right? Even if they didn't put it there, and they would take it down if they knew about it. They're still selling it.

    Dumb.

    1. Re:This is pretty dumb. by elji · · Score: 1

      Correct, they do that.
      Some books are forbidden to sale in France, most notably 2 books from famous french author Louis-Ferdinand Céline ("Bagatelle pour un massacre" et "Les beaux draps"), written in 1937 and 1941.
      Those few who own a copy of these can only keep them locked in their house.

  8. so what? don't go to france by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they're a bunch of snobbish wankers anyways.

    1. Re:so what? don't go to france by fogof · · Score: 1

      And then you wonder why ppl hate america. I mean, most ppl in this country are great. Unfortunalty, ignorance is loud.

      --
      --=.=-- www.cyber2000.qc.ca
  9. simply pathetic by monkeyserver.com · · Score: 1

    Do they feel they need to prove a point. This is almost as childish as claiming ownership of hyperlinks, and trying to sue based on it.

    I think there's something wrong with those Europeans.

    --
    http://monkeyserver.com --- weeeeee
    1. Re:simply pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong with Europeans?
      That's what they say here about Americans: people who sue the city if they drunkenly roll down a hill or sue a manufacturer when they put their dog in a microwave oven and complain the dog died.

      Such generalisations are better left alone.

    2. Re:simply pathetic by monkeyserver.com · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you didn't see that I was joking.

      But I can tell you that having such broad approaches to handling Nazi peraphanelia is also a very dangerous broad generalization, yet the french government has sued an american over doing it.

      I think it shows extreme arrogance of the French's part to sue after they even have removed the goods. It shows that they really don't care about the issue at hand and are suing for alterior motives, be it press, or just because they are prics.

      --
      http://monkeyserver.com --- weeeeee
  10. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    Is it just me or do the lines between national and international law seem to be blurring?

    Passport: World ID

    UN: One World Government

    Bill Gates: Anti-Christ

    ~~~

  11. A far greater danger... by quantax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Nazi regime was horrible, but it is far more more dangerous to try to 'ignore' it. Those who are committed to forgetting history are bound to repeat it. Don't follow the path of ignorance.

    --
    "What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
    1. Re:A far greater danger... by fogof · · Score: 1

      Funny ... Those who are so inclined to remind us of the tragedies of the past, are repeating it, or at least closing there eyes.

      Liberate.

      --
      --=.=-- www.cyber2000.qc.ca
    2. Re:A far greater danger... by Skapare · · Score: 2

      The French government itself forgot all about the Nazi regime that invaded their country. And as a result, today they themselves are starting to act like Nazis.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  12. International Court by Deanasc · · Score: 3, Funny

    There should be an international courthouse in Antartica. All international cases must be tried there. That would stop all these frivolous lawsuits. After all, who would bother to file a lawsuit there except the truly grieved.

    --
    I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    1. Re:International Court by fogof · · Score: 1

      There is already an international court house.
      http://www.icj-cij.org/

      I think this is where they are trying Ariel Sharon for his crimes.

      --
      --=.=-- www.cyber2000.qc.ca
  13. read the article... by tetraminoe · · Score: 1

    Three French Jewish and anti-Semitism groups pressed for the criminal charges in October. (emphasis added)

    Okay... So the French Nazis are upset over lost business?

  14. Dmitry Sklyarov double standard by andaru · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The judge ruled that French laws don't apply to U.S. businesses, but it obviously doesn't work the other way around, as in the case of Dmitry Sklyarov.

    They should have waited to file charges until Timothy Koogle was vacationing on the French Riviera, rather than having to try to extradite him.

    I guess it's time to brush up on your foreign law, since we will all have to start obeying the laws of every other country in the world, including those that are mutually exclusive.

    --

    Why is Grand Theft Auto a much more serious crime than Reckless Driving?

    1. Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we will all have to start obeying the laws of every other country in the world, including those that are mutually exclusive.

      Laws requiring websites to sell Nazi paraphernalia do not exist. There is no reason one would be required to break France's law by following Imaginary Country's law.

    2. Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard by Skapare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Free Speech is illegal in China. Death penalty may be the result. If you speak bad about the Chinese government, no matter what country you are in, they might demand your extradition to China to stand trial and face the firing squad. This is what can happen if we set any precedent to allow foreign countries to dictate what is done beyond their own national territory. Unfortunately both the United States (Sklyarov) and France (Koogle) are setting just such precedents. And this is very serious business. Citizens of these countries need to inform their government representatives of the grave risk involved in such a precedent exposing them to the extraditions of other countries for what is perfectly legal at home.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Insightful
      In many places, learning about Nazis is part of the school curriculum. It's not that farfetched that said curriculum is actually written down as part of state policy, and that it is also state policy that you have to puchase textbooks from one of these ten suppliers, thus forcing purchasers to purchase Nazi 'paraphernalia'. (Whatever the hell 'paraphernalia' means in that context.)

      While such textbooks probably aren't illegal in France, which just seems to care that they don't have neo-Nazis walking around, I'd wager to bet many of them are illegal in Germany, because Germany frankly doesn't allow any presentation of WWII that isn't government approved. (Of course, the reason it isn't approved is simply because the textbook manufactures don't care enough to submit their books, but that's beside the point.)

      Ergo, there are situtations where schools in some countries are required, as part of their educational mandate that was handed down by the government, to purchase things that may be illegal in other countries.

      Another example: In Quebec, it is required that you have French and Eglish on all signs, and that they be equal size. In various cities in America, there are laws saying that your main sign must be in English, or at least the English must be larger than your other signs. (This is to stop 'Chinatowns' and whatnot from becoming completely unnavigatable by police and just random passerbyers.) These laws are in direct contradiction to each other.

      And, of course, there is the very very obvious one of 'you must drive on the left', vs. 'you must drive on the right', though I think it would get pretty surreal pretty quickly if every government tried to enforce their traffic laws everywhere.

      There are also the 'wildly different' laws that, despite having the exact same intention and pretty close legal framework, were created with no regard to each other and thus directly conflict in different parts. For example, common law marriage times are different in different countries. Though I don't know the laws, let's say that if you live with someone for two years you're married in England, and it's three years in Louisiana. If you have sex with your common law wife of two and a half years in England, you can be arrested for rape in Louisiana if you happen to mention you're married, because a) You aren't married in Louisiana, and b) It's rape if you trick the other person into thinking you're married to them.

      Obviously that isn't the intent of the law, and you wouldn't be arrested even if you did it in Louisiana (Countries pretty much just accept if you're from another country and say you're married, that you are, and they'd have to prove you knew you weren't married there anyway.), but conflicts between different country's laws happen all the time, and it's crazy to try to enforce them in anything outsides the boundaries of this country for exactly this reason.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    4. Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the examples. Skapare didn't address the point I was trying to make, but you did and refuted it quite well.

  15. Nazi decorations by c.r.o.c.o · · Score: 1

    Well, in that case France should charge a lot of the junk store owners in Toronto. In particular those on Church St.

    I have seen plenty of Nazi war decorations (or medals, whatever they're called) for sale in those stores. And those were the cheap ones, which about a third of the Reich Army got just for fighting in the war.

    And I'm sure the Nazi memorabilia is big business throughout the world. I'm not into it, so I don't know for sure, but it's a safe bet.

    Going after the CEO of Yahoo for this is ridiculous. I guess there's a judge in France whith too much time on his hands.

  16. Re:Fuck you France by Pr0p3r_Tr0ll4g3 · · Score: 0

    Just because they're smelly doesn't mean a bunch of ignorant krauts should have their way with them.

    There's only one way to achieve work domination:
    Economics.

    There isn't enough people on the planet to police everyone, therefore you have to take over their values, attitudes, and monetary systems. Fuck Hitler's grand army. He just had a small dick.

    Who would want this sorry hunk of rock anyway?

  17. Nazi takeover of France, news at 10 by Skapare · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    The French government is acting very much like a Nazi regime. Or worse. It makes me think that these people actually picked this up from the German invaders during WW2 and passed the concepts on down to their children, and so on.

    When the French citizen clicks on the Yahoo.COM site, they know they are going to the USA. This is the electronic online age equivalent to traveling, including overseas.

    <img src="frenchflagwithswastica.jpg">

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    1. Re:Nazi takeover of France, news at 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, not Nazi, it's closer to Stalinism... closer and closer every day

  18. France: Criminal Charges Against Yahoo's Ex-CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hi all

    despite the fact I'm french, I think :

    - the government is NOT involved

    - this is jewish organization that wants to suite against Yahoo, even they know internet is not supposed to be under control

    - and then, they do it in france because it's not possible to do this kind of suit in USA due to constitution.

    tha's all folks

  19. Re:Fuck you France by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I think that events of recent months have shown that Hitler actually had the right idea.
    He was trying to make the world safer for White Folk.

    Who Rules America?

  20. As an aside... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else think that com.com is the lamest domain name possible?

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  21. Your ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your ass is loud too, better shut it! Who is ignorant here?

  22. Hater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical yank hater, doesn't know his head from his dick.

    There are laws against defaming Stalin and the Soviet Union, it's called "discrimination on the basis of political opinion".

    Fascism isn't an opinion, fascism is a crime!

  23. All those crazy conspiracy theories out there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of them are coming true. Like the One World Government bit. i always thought that was a load of shit. But looking around today I'm beginning to wonder.

    Some others too. The implantable microchips. Yikes!

    Cameras everywhere.

    An official government disinformation office that they aren't even embarrassed to talk about.

    Taking guns away from people. Last I heard, gun shops around the country had to more or less close their doors because of a government "delay" in license renawal. We're talking 10's of thousands of shops. Add to that a growing list of tricks that are being used for the sole purpose of disqualifying someone from owning a gun. And keep in mind, it doesn't matter if you like guns or not, it's a hard-coded aspect of our society. It's not debatable!

    I think the government is getting so bizarre that watching all the crazy news releases about them is a kind of a cheap entertainment within itself. Ashcroft covering up the statues in his office, for one. Stuff like that is fascinating.

    Someone in the Supreme Court commented on the number of crazies in government, and said something along the lines of, "It's gonna be a busy time for Supreme Court"

  24. if it wasn't for America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    their asses would be speaking German right now.

  25. Re:The USA is a terrorist nation by trg83 · · Score: 1

    AC, You're seriously misguided. I take that back. You're an imbecile. It's hard to compare mass murderers with mass murderers. Hitler and Stalin both fit the description. It is quite unfortunate that we took the side of Russia in WWII. We should have let Hitler and Stalin destroy each other.

  26. french people are rude to americans anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it is very true.

  27. Not a French lawsuit by Balinares · · Score: 2

    There seems to be a common misconception that it's the French government that wants Yahoo down. This seems to be wrong.
    The plaintiff seems to be an org call the "Jewish Community of France". I've not managed to check if they even have the French nationality at all. Most French people I know do not agree at all with the lawsuit.

    --

    -- B.
    This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
  28. we bomb everyone else? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's our problem. We DON'T bomb everyone else. It's about time we did.