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More Mayhem From MSFT's Mundie

Cally writes "Further embarrasingly lame FUD from Craig Mundie of Microsoft. This time, he claims the GPL is at odds with 'commercialization' of software, without which the government gets a smaller tax take. Looks like he's really talking to legislators there ... He also knocks the Sun-led Liberty Alliance Passport SSO service as 'this notion that the world should be offered an alternative.' An alternative?"

12 of 591 comments (clear)

  1. One cannot help but wonder... by wbav · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If GPL is as bad as Microsoft says it is, why do they keep drawing attention to it?

    I mean, come on, when you continue to talk about something, the idea survives, where as if you ignore it, most of the time, it will just go away.

    --

    =================
    Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
    1. Re:One cannot help but wonder... by Soko · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I mean, come on, when you continue to talk about something, the idea survives, where as if you ignore it, most of the time, it will just go away.

      They tried that. It didn't work.

      Lots of cool stuff for Linux grew while they were trying to ignore it. Now, they're really, really scared that they will face competition that they can't buy or steal - they will only be able to compete on value and technology.

      As well, Microsoft has always had the paranoid delusions of it's creators and officers. If anything or anyone even gives a sideways glance at thier little girl named Windows, they apply a vicious beating so she can't be lead astray.

      Don't ever forget that "killing Windows is killing Microsoft"*, so it will fight for it's life whenever threatened. The GPLed OS (Linux, to be pendantic) is the only thing that is able to fight back with thet same weapons - so far, anyway.

      Soko

      * This is in quotes since it's not given to be true - the only thing that would go away is the huge, controlling behemoth and it's current business model. there's lots of smart people there tat could generate cash in other ways.

      --
      "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
    2. Re:One cannot help but wonder... by Soko · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good points.

      Do you really believe that Microsoft is "really, really scared" of the GPL? Why would they be?

      I think they are. There is a lot of energy being spent on GPLed software, and it's winning mind share to boot. They've seen Linux come from nowhere to thier major compeditor in less that 5 years. That would be enough to scare the bejeezus out of any company.

      1) The public image of OSS is, at this point, not good. As long as the zealots (RMS, ESR) are at the front lines, it will always conjure images of the hippies that these guys are.

      The software itself is making inroads and showing it has value - which is what any competent business manager looks at. Look at what the hippies have wroght - nice, stable useable software. I'm no fan of the hippies myself, but I resepct them for giving me a choice in what OS/Apps I use.

      2) The lucrative desktop market isn't going anywhere and, while I have no stats to back this up, I'm willing to bet that Linux's gains in the server market are more at the expense of Netware and UNIX than Windows.

      Currently, I'll give you this one since there's too much spin in the industry to really tell for sure. However, know that I plan to re-deploy my dead AlphaNT machines as SAMBA servers - and they match up nicely with some big Intel based iron running Windows2000. Microsoft would count that as a lost sale, I think.

      3) The infighting and fragmentation among several OSS camps (GNOME/KDE and, to a lesser extent, GPL/BSD licencing) can't help but make one wonder if OSS can stay united long enough to make any impact.

      Hopefully, it won't. I myself would like the APIs and configurations unified more, but the desktops? Even Windows has it's detractors, like Litestep and Window Blinds. There are arguements, but you think there are nothing but congenial, ass kissing sessions in cloised source design meetings? Sure.

      Without turning this into another "OSS is nonviable in the business world" rant, the point I'm trying to make is that Microsoft has very little reason to fear the GPL. Be aware of? Yes. Watch carefully? Yes. Attempt to squash? Yes. Fear? No. Microsoft would have to be full of absolute morons to not spend some time and energy working to discredit GPL before it becomes a problem. Like Microsoft or not, you don't build the world's largest software company from a staff of morons.

      Microsoft doesn't have many morons to be sure. They do have a paranoid culture, however. Look at how they've reacted to what used to be thier greatest weakness in regard to Linux - security. I need not say more.

      Whenever I hear of Microsoft's alleged GPL fears, it reminds me of the skinny little kid who thinks that, because the schoolyard bully doesn't pick on him as often as others, the bully is afraid. I believe the term is "inconsequential".

      Sorry - Linux is no skinny little kid in comparison to Microsoft, exept in perhaps market share. More like the tall kid who just takes the abuse, smiles and waits for his turn...

      Soko

      --
      "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
    3. Re:One cannot help but wonder... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Having said that: Any company that touches GPLd code with a 20 foot pole needs to ferret out the zealots in their midst : How many Slashdot stories have their been now crusading against some GPL violation or another?


      Yep. You would hate to have whistle-blowers calling your company to task for license violations. Of course, that kind of thing isn't just limited to the GPL. Proprietary commercial licenses can be a real pain too.


      For all of the talk about the GPL and commercial software being compatible, it is ironic seeing the countless "down with evil commercial software!" tirades on here (almost always unjust, but such details as facts elude the GPL crusaders).


      There are probably a few cases where that kind of sentiment has been expressed - I say this because of the "MusicCity stole Gnucleus code!" threads recently (where it is perfectly legal to fork GPL'd projects if the license requirements are adheared to). And then there's RMS. But oddball examples aside... I believe you're generally wrong. Take a look again. Most of the accusations of "evil" have to do with business practices, and not commercial software itself.

  2. Re:GPL by swm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The gov't still gets its cut.

    It gets it from all the companies that have higher profits because they aren't paying the Microsoft tax.

  3. Comments by erasmus_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article is pretty short, and I can't help but wondering if any of his statements were taken at all out of context. For example, the "should be offered an alternative" statement seems pretty silly for MS to take - after all the monopoly allegation problems, why complain that there is a movement to have a Passport alternative? One would think that the presence of other central authentication database standards would allow them to continue to tout the "we are not dominating" stance.

    It's especially disengenuous for MS to complain as Passport is/will be included with every MS OS, whereas the Liberty Alliance one will have a hard time making it in the Windows world.

    GPL knock is classic MS though - "free software cannot make money" is their normal approach and is almost hardly newsworthy.

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  4. Re:An Alternative? Oh geeze by Telastyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because the general public expect such things from what is essentially a marketting droid. Granted he has a technical title, and can speak the speak, so he *must* know what he's talking about? Dah?

    And the general public also expects someone just as zealously over the top to say similarly ludicrous things about Microsoft. They will offset one another, and in the end, people don't care. They just want to have fun, and get what they want when they want it.

    They'd like the internet to be nice and easy, and they do not want to enter passwords to things. They do not understand, and do not care about security. They only care about not getting things stolen from them, or being cheated.

    In the real world, who takes care of thievery and fraud? Yes, the police and the government. So why can't the police and the government *do their jobs* and keep the normal people safe and secure online too?

    Well, sure you and I know why, because we generally know how things work. Normal people do not. And they don't care.

  5. Gotta shake my head at this quote... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now I'm no MS Basher. I'll take them to task when it needs to be done, but I'll also praise them when they deserve it. Still, with quotes like the following, it's getting harder and harder to find something to praise about them:

    "Rather than form a federation with Microsoft and work with what we had already created, there was this notion that the world should be offered an alternative," Mundie said.

    Oh no!!!! An alternative! How horrible that consumers be offered a choice!

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  6. Re:FUD by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Next time they call, ask them about Complete Software. If it doesn't come with the source code, it's incomplete, and your company has no intention of paying full price for only part of the software.

    We really should take MS to task over not providing the source code to their products - after all, when IBM first started shipping software for their mainframes, the source code came with it so that the user could customize it to their needs. Where does MS get off thinking it should be any different?

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  7. Re:FUD by PD · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did you tell him that Microsoft will soon be out of business because they hire salesmen that insult their customers? Did you ask him if his boss knew that he insulted customers by telling them they will be out of business.

    Good salesmen are helpful people that can help you solve a problem. Salesmen that just try to sell you something are idiots.

  8. GPL = more taxes, not less by Angst+Badger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Wow, either Craig Mundie is a total fscking moron, or a baldfaced liar. Less software sold means fewer deductible expenses, and therefore more taxable income and more taxes paid.

    For those of you who don't have the dubious privilege of paying taxes on your business, let me provide a slightly oversimplified explanation. Unlike personal income taxes, businesses pay taxes on their profits, not on the income that ended up going into operating expenses and equipment purchases. (The big exception is payroll, but that's not germane here.) If I use "free" software instead of M$ software, there's nothing for me to deduct. Instead, I have to either invest the money in something else (thereby stimulating the economy, and passing the tax burden to my vendors) or pay taxes on it.

    So do your patriotic duty and use free software!

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  9. Re:Microsoft is concerned about Taxes? by electroniceric · · Score: 5, Insightful
    My point is that "didn't pay corporate tax" is frequently presented as "contributes nothing to society", which is completely untrue.

    Fair enough, but the argument about secondary contributions is so frequently overstated it's nauseating, and usually in the service of public dollars being spent on private moneymaking, like stadiums, corporate relocations, etc.
    A partly rhetorical question:

    • If I commit a crime that requires me to be taken to jail, I'm supporting the (often very lucrative) incarceration industry, and a jails are usually located where jobs are scarce, my murder 1 is particularly beneficial to the community. Should that money be attributed to me?

    And another one:
    • As a community leader, I encourage my community to invest in a vocational training program which produces high quality laborers. These laborers pay taxes and consume goods and services? Should that economic benefit be attributed to me?

    To my mind, the obligations on companies, like people go above and beyond the balance sheet of what they consume (raw resources, human resources, physical, social, legal, educational infrastructure) - they are part of society, and have a duty to help others in society, as do the rest of us. So the current climate of heaping accolades on companies because one of the things they happen to need is people to work jobs drives me nuts, as it suggests that having made jobs, companies are off the hook for any more helping out.