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Robotic Mini-sub to Inspect NYC Water System
jhiv writes: "The Delaware Aqueduct, one of the world's longest water tunnels, may be developing potential serious leaks, according to this article in the New York Times (free registration). One leak has already created a pond and a stream with a flow of a million gallons per day. New York city officials plan to use a robotic mini-submarine being developed by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution to inspect the interior of the 13 foot diameter tunnel. Previous repairs required four deep sea divers to spend almost a week at 700 feet pressure to fix a leaking valve. Ironically, if the tunnel is repaired, the wetlands created by leaks will be destroyed, causing a potential EPA violation. Additional coverage can be found here and here." NYC has been building a third major water tunnel to take the load off the first two - but it's a fifty-year project.
The television show Beauty & The Beast with Linda Hamilton filmed in the huge hole that was in NY's Central Park 10 years ago. This hole was the drop point for large equipment to get lowered into the tunnel being digged. For those inerested it was West-South-West of Delcorte Theater. I think the new drop point is in Queens now...
"...and generally behaved in a manner one can only describe as despicable." - February 27 2001, Michael Sims
The nice thing about this capital project, is it may be the first major capital project that is on schedule. Compared to the Big Dig in Boston, the NYC water project is remarkably on schedule, and is even arguably ahead of schedule.
In fact, 13 miles of the third tunnel is ALREADY activated and allows a little of the stress of tunnels 1 and 2 to be relieved.
I can't even imagine what the city will do when this project will be done... they'll be a serious amount of money freed up for more capital projects. Perhaps sinking the west side highway from canal to the brooklyn/battery tunnel and creating another central park-type area? The idea's been batted around since the 80s. Hmm... Gotta say, nothing seems to keep NYC down.
What I find most interesting about all of this is the statement about repairs being too risky and to just let the thing leak itself to death, hopefully while building a new tunnel.
I agree with the lawyer in this case -- this seems like a really serious problem, with the capability of affecting many, many people. NYC has already had it's share of disasters, hopefully a city-wide water failure won't be next.
I was also thinking about that 1958 inspection, and the statement in the article about how draining a high pressure underground tunnel can be very dangerous to it's structure. Is it possible that a significant amount of damage occured in the '58 jeep tour, when the tunnel is drained? The sources at hand even state the sink-hole was created around this time, so possibly the ignorance of the past and an inspection is to blame for these leaks?
All I can say is I hope they will do something preventative. How big is the risk to do repairs vs. building a new tunnel? Hopefully we will all have water in a few years! This news (including the 12-year cover up) is certainly interesting to know...and it's been going on all along under our feet!
I wouldn't take much risk with something as fundamental as water.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
First of all, the Corps of Engineers regulates filling of wetlands (through the 404 permit process), not the EPA.
Second of all, this is exempt from Corps fill requirements as it is a man-made water source.
How do I know? Because I'm the one that gets Corps wetland delineations done for the water agency I work for, and man-made sources (like those created from all of our water sampling stations) are NOT regulated by the Corps.
The guy in the article said "Those wetlands are going to dry up and that's probably against the law." Note the "probably". He obviously does not do regulatory work.
Before anyone else on this board talks about "environmentalist whackos", get your facts straight.
You can't be serious?
:)
No one is talking about 'a few extra trees'
When they say NJ has no water table, that means there's no money left in the bank... The area is living hand to mouth here.
Water in the ground is like money in the bank. If there's any sort of disruption (manmade, natural, catastrophe, or otherwise), THERE IS NO WATER.
So... you in NJ with decent roads, better and bigger facilities and housing, but absolutely no water. What would you do? Nothing to drink with, nothing to bathe with, nothing to clean with...
Or rather, there *would* be water, but you may not be able to afford to use it, if it's priced like milk or gas
GPL Deconstructed
We get our water from the Croton system; none comes from the Hudson River anymore, which is probably a good thing. Let's just say I wouldn't want to let any of it get on my skin, let alone in my mouth.
We can't even put ONE house on the aforementioned 7 acres. They won't even budge 1 bit.
So sue them under the 5th amendment "Takings" clause of the Constitution.
- You have their assessment - and the standard for assessed valuation vs. sale price, and comparable values from sale prices of houses in the area that have sold recently that would be similar to what yours would be if you could build it.
- You also have comparable values for swampland with restrictions from the same area.
So sue the agency that is blocking you for the difference.
This has been EXTREMELY successful in the recent past, thanks to some supreme court decisions relating to a situation in California. (A church camp burned down. The zoning board blocked permits to rebuild for years while considering whether to allow rebuilding at all. The church sued for the reduction of the value to the property (value of property where you can build a camp - value of property where you can't build a camp). The Supreme Court agreed with them, establishing the doctrine of "partial taking".
So look up that case, find a good lawyer who understands it (or the one who DID it), and start a suit.
One of three things will happen:
- They do an about-face and grant you your permits. (You'll have your land value back, less fees for the lawyer to send a letter and maybe start the suit.)
- You win. (You'll have your land value back, less the lawyer's fees for running the suit - and you may be able to collect that, too.)
- You lose and lose on appeal. (You're out the cost of the case. But you have the satisfaction of dragging the bureaucrats through the courts for a while. B-) )
(And while you're at it, think about a civil rights suit: "Denial of Civil Rights under Color of Law.")
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
13 feet = 4 meters
1 gallon = 3.8 liters
sorry we can't all agree on a universal standard....
For those of you not clued up, the ocean is salty! Yes, I know that's amazing, but it's absolutely true.
...now, what do you suppose they have to do to the ocean to make it drinkable? That's right, desalination!
...and how do you think they desalinate large volumes of water? Yes, with spectacularly huge quantities of electrical power! The kind of power that NYC doesn't really have to spare!
Woooo! Here's a clue for the UK twits in the audience: go take a drink out of the Thames, and let us know how you like it before you go suggesting anybody use the Hudson for a drinking source.