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Mandrake Policy Change Angers Users
phalse phace writes "Yahoo! News is carrying a ZDNet News article which reveals that Mandrake has decided to change its policy regarding its Mandrake Club. Previously, Mandrake stated that all membership levels would enjoy the same benefits. But since Mandrake Linux 8.2 will include StarOffice 6.0 and Sun is charging for it, they decided to only allow the download of SO 6.0 to Silver members and higher."
Instead of bothering with licencing fees related to StarOffice, why not just include OpenOffice? They're the same codebase, right?
slashdot!=valid HTML
I heard SO 6.0 will be sold for approximately 100 (like $112), so Mandrake can't give it to the $5 a month / $60 a year members.
The people who subscibed to Mandrake club did it because they want to support the distro, so I guess they'll do the math and understand that it just isn't possible to give them StarOffice.
Anyway, OpenOffice is not very different from StarOffice, and it's available for free, so what's the big deal?
!
^_^
The only thing I'd question is the short notice. They should take better care to avoid such a gaffe in the future. If they had announced, before 8.2 was released, that Star Office 6.0 would be at a premium due to Sun's charging, members would have less to gripe about.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Included on the third CD of Mandrake 8.2 download edition.
I strongly suspect that early in the development cycle, Sun planned to charge for StarOffice. All they needed to do was get a few stable releases out the door, win some acceptance for the product and, above all, get users accustomed to it and reluctant to learn yet another office suite.
I wonder how many people would have downloaded and invested the time to learn Star Office if they had known from the outset that Sun was planning to charge for it.
Sun, you are a pretty good company in most respects, but I don't think this tactic will benefit your reputation. It would have been better if you kept the basic Star Office suite free, and offered some corporate-targeted optional add-ons (that private users and small companies don't need) at a price. Similar to your Forte Java IDE suite (Free 'Community Edition' through to pricey 'Enterprise Edition'). That would have kept people's trust in your company.
Hopefully, you'll write this off as a mistake, and offer 'Community Editions' of SO 6 and beyond.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
Perhaps you're congusing Mandrake with Microsoft, GE, IBM or some other company with lots of liquid assets they can absorb losses. In case you haven't noticed, Mandrake is suffering from low revenues, hence the membership drive.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Mandrake read slashdot and saw posts about how they had no business plan, and how they were begging and blah blah blah, perhaps they are actually making Mandrake club a legit Redhat style service now.
Why include open office? Business users dont want Open Office they want STAR OFFICE.
People complain when Mandrakesoft is too fair, then they complain when Mandrakesoft does the same thing Redhat and everyone else is doing.
People, subscribe, or shut up.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Open office is better than StarOffice. I have both and I use Open Office alot more. StarOffice unless it was HUGELY further advanced doesn't even peak my interest in any way other than "Why is Sun still trying to sell that?" They cant import Office files any better, not that it matters to me anymore, I've pretty much convinced everyone at the office that Microsoft File formats are Evil and reduce our communication abilities and profitability.. (That was an awesome speech at that meeting, dont know where those words came from but talking to sales people use Money as your motivation... it sucks them in every-time) PLus the fact that I have 1/2 the sales force using Open Office at home with the, "You just got a computer and you want to borrow the Office2000 cd set? No that's illegal, but here, Here is a free Office Suite that is just as good, and you can legally give it to everyone you want."
So, we now have over 1/2 the office workers and sales staff using Open Office at home AND now wanting me to install it on their computers at work to replace that Microsoft version.
Star Office, i wish them luck, but noone outside of a corperate purchaser is interested in it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That Mandrake is going to pass along the cost of Sun's charging for StarOffice 6 only makes sense from a financial point of view, especially given Mandrake's recent money troubles.
It doesn't bother me a bit though, and I am a club member, though not at a level high enough to download StarOffice for free. I gave my $60 to Mandrake, not expecting anything in return, even though benefits are offered to club members. I gave my money because I think Mandrake is the best distro around, and one that has a real chance of making a headway against the MS dominance on the desktop.
So don't be upset that Mandrake is charging its customers to cover the cost of that which they are being charged for themselves. That's how a business is run. And unless Mandrake stays profitable as a business, this great distrobution might not be around in a couple of years.
If you enjoy or appreciate Mandrake's work, why not join the club yourself today?
If you go to:1 3
http://www.mandrakeclub.com/article.php?sid=
You will see this as part of the announcement for commercial applications for MandrakeClub members:
"At this moment it isn't clear what will happen with the StarOffice. How badly do you need this application?"
This is dated March 8. Before they made the big membership drive, IIRC, or very close to it. Most of the responses below say that they don't care about SO. So, it looks like someone is spreading FUD about Mandrake and that Mandrake needs to be a little bit more thorough is updating its the marketing on its website.
Of course Mandrake isnt going to be free. People have to pay for the development. The clubs are just the way mandrake is going to make their money
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Exactly.
That's the point that people are missing. Yes, Sun has a right to sell StarOffice for whatever price they wish. But, in the long run, which course of action will result in more revenue for Sun? I'm not convinced that this one will. They aren't going to sell more than a handful of licenses, as there is insufficient reason to migrate from MS Office.
Now, when it was free, there was a great reason to migrate: you could reduce your licensing costs tremendously since you had not per-seat restrictions. I know of a company that very nearly switched. The reason they didn't switch was not that StarOffice was free; they didn't switch because StarOffice 5.2 kind of sucked. There was something accomplished, though. They were able to negotiate down their MS Office licensing fees. So, free StarOffice in that case helped to "cut off Microsoft's air supply" just a little bit. Imagine what a good, free StarOffice 6.0 could do. Sun could do better giving away StarOffice, and making money from support and server purchases, I suspect. I'm pretty certain that they won't make much money under the current plan, though.
I'm not a Mandrake fan, nor do I use it. But I've gotta side with Mandrake in this one, because it's obvious some of you are taking their goodwill too far. I pay RedHat the similar $60/year, the lowest level, for priority downloads and other services. I don't expect anything more, nor should you Mandrake $60/yearers after reading their agreement.
Reality check people! $60/year does NOT entitle you to a product that is almost $100 on the retail shelf. I don't care about OEM licensing, Mandrake has got to make money! Furthermore, that $60 probably barely covers all the other services and benefits provided. Lastly, the statement of "receive the same benefits" would most likely extend to only Mandrake products and services, and NOT 3rd party products and/or services. Otherwise, Mandrake would go "belly up" (actually all distros seem to have a constant loss after all expense considerations, even RedHat).
Frankly, Mandrake should be commended on allowing StarOffice to be downloaded as an .iso thanx to membership, and Sun for licensing it to Linux distributors so they can do so. Man, I'm really getting sick of
this "whining" crap. Some of you "whiney" Linux users need to go! At least before most of the good, GPL-focused commercial organizations cannot sustain your selfishness!
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
I gave Mandrake my $60 in return for a club membership after their recent and rather desperate appeal for funds (to build the free Linux platform) so I feel that I'm entitled to an opinion, whether you agree with me or not.
There are two reasons why I don't like this StarOffice license deal:
1) People who in essense donated money to Mandrake in order to promote the development of the free platform now find some of that money going into Sun's coffers, regardless whether they wished to buy a license for the proprietary StarOffice or not.
I welcome any kind of Linux software support by independent developers and commercial ISVs but how does this kind of deal encourage choice? Should the vendors of WordPerfect Office, SmartSuite or god forbid MS-Office, or any other commercial applications, begin to sell pre-paid licenses to users/supporters of particular platforms? If you had effectively paid for one (as part of your platform support) would you still be interested in paying for the one that might really interest you? How is Mandrake's paying for StarOffice really different from hardware OEM's paying for Windows + MS-Office "on your behalf" when you go out and buy that new beige box? Shouldn't both the OEM's and Mandrake let the customer decide if they want the extras? Just negotiate the bulk discounts for your customers and let them decide.
2)"All members are entitled to same benefits"
I simply can't see how any vendor should be allowed to change such terms unilaterally and without due warning, let alone a Linux vendor who had just appealed to people's goodwill and financial help.
I've supported Linux (various flavours, bought boxes, converted and helped Windows converts etc.) for many years and one of the main attractions of Linux for me personally was the moral high ground it offered. I still like Mandrake's distro and appreciate their efforts at promoting Linux use on the desktop but I'm not happy with the way they handled this issue. Did something happen to Mandrake's soul when they became a publically-traded company?
It will be interesting to see whether the Mandrake Club staff will ever answer my email or not...
Now go ahead and burn me at stake for not approving with everything that some free software company does. I'm strong enough to take (actually deflect) any crap without the urge to join some militaristic boot camps. So there.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Charge like $3 or something to download the ISOs.
It's no big deal if people mirror them or copy them to friends, you just have to try and prevent multiple people from grabbing it. So only allow one login per username and expire the code after 15 days of the first login.
If they don't have everything they need in 15 days or if they didn't make a backup on CD they can pay another $3 and try again.
Wouldn't $3/download cover bandwidth costs?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I gave $120. I did it and did not immediately log in to see what I could get. I haven't paid attention. I am not rich, I am a frickin' grad student. I did it to support a good distro through some bad times.
I also PAID for the boxed 8.2 release...same reasons. Up to now, I've downloaded iso images or did the slower, painful upgrades via rpm alone. I figured it was time to give back. It is a GOOD thing to pay, at least once in a while, for the work your distro is doing. Ungrateful, snot-nosed twerps.
THIS is one of the main reasons that there are no linux games. This is the main reason there is practically no linux commercial software. When was the last time you saw an opensource tax-prep package? Or a top-of-the line game come to linux and do well? All that has EVER come is a port (loki, now dead because of deadbeats leeches) or out of the goodness of the developer's heart (idSoftware) but STILL requiring a windoze game purchase. This last is just a nice gesture and does nothing to keep the company afloat and game-producing.
Ya'll have the misimpression that you are OWED software. That you shouldn't have to pay for ANYTHING...ever. That you are entitled to ANYTHING. Nope. You are not. You want the niceties (simple installers, nice development ala Transgaming's version of wine that works better than ANY other version of wine to games), then you should be willing to pay to get them...REGARDLESS of licensing.
Too many of you talk a good game
about the strength and political superiority of opensource but what you are REALLY doing is demanding free/never pay for software developed by the labor of others. I LIKE opensource and I like that I can get most/all of it for free but I also know for a fact that a lot of it would NOT be here if NO one coughed up money to cover the costs. Fact. Grow up and join the real world.In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.