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NASA Satellite Stranded

Account 10 writes: "BBC News has a story about one of NASA's newest and most sophisticated satellites. Launched a couple of weeks ago, it was supposed to have moved itself up into the correct orbit . Once there, one of its roles would be to route data between the ISS, other satellites and the ground as aprt of the TDRS (Tracking and Data Relay Satellite) project. However a fuel tank is leaking and it cannot reach its orbit. One suggestion is that it maneuver itself into an orbit where the shuttle can reach and rescue it - to repair it and send it on its way, or bring it home to be launched again."

14 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Silly Putty and Spit by AlaskanUnderachiever · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wasn't there a recent slashdot story (in the past few months) about a budget sattelite put up for under 50k with a metal ruler for an antenna that's still working? I've got a 84 jeep bumper I'm willing to donate for the next communications sattelite. Hell, if they're willing to put my name on the sattelite, I'll throw in my old C64 to run it.

    --
    Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
  2. Some Suggestions for NASA... by Loki_1929 · · Score: 4, Funny

    1) Fire all the satellite's rockets to bring it screaming into the atmosphere on the 4th of July for one hell of a fireworks show.

    2) Get Tommy Lee Jones and the rest of the crew from Space Cowboys to give it a good kick.

    3) Replace the leaking fuel cell with a new one filled with Nitro Glycerin.

    4) Mass-produce the same satellite and sell it in hobby shops under the name, "My First Satellite Set".

    5) Sell it to the US Miltary as a target for the new missle shield.

    6) "Fuck it, we're going to Mars now."

    7) Call AAA for a tow. (or at least a jump-start)

    8) Tell the monkey inside it to peddle faster.

    9) Make up some ridiculous excuse to explain why you've wasted several million dollars on something that doesn't work - like a fuel leak from a damag... wait a minute...

    10) Pretend everything's going as planned.

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  3. Cost of Repairs vs. Relaunch vs. Reentry by stuffman64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, NASA has 3 choices Re-entry, Retrieve and Relauch, or Repair.

    The first choice, Re-entry, is just to give up on it (in otherwords, send it back into the atmosphere and hope it doens't hit anyone, or hit a target so we get free tacos). I doubt they will do this considering the astronomical (pun somewhat intended) amount of money they would have wasted on the whole thing.

    Retrieve and Relaunch is probably unlikey too, because not only do they have to pay to send a shuttle up (although they can just do it on a regularly scheduled mission), but then they have to pay to launch it again. It would be pretty hard, IMHO, to snatch a sattilite, return it to earth, and relauch it without further damaging it. Plus, I'm sure it is more dangerous to land a shuttle with all that extra weight in the cargo area.

    That leaves us with repair, the most reasonable option. Send up some guys on the next shuttle mission with Duct Tape (about $1.50 a roll, depending on store and brand). Voila! Problem solved!

    --
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    1. Re:Cost of Repairs vs. Relaunch vs. Reentry by geoswan · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Well, NASA has 3 choices Re-entry, Retrieve and Relauch, or Repair. The first choice, Re-entry, is just to give up on it (in otherwords, send it back into the atmosphere and hope it doens't hit anyone, or hit a target so we get free tacos)...

      Maybe, maybe not. From the original BBC story it sounds like those at mission control don't know whether it has enough fuel to make it back to an orbit where the shuttle can retrieve it. I am going to speculate that if they don't have enough fuel to make it back to an orbit where the shuttle can retrieve it, then they don't have enough fuel for re-entry either.

      Obviously, Boeing had already started moving it up to geosynchronous orbit, or there wouldn't be any question of moving it back to an orbit where it could be retrieved -- it would still be in an orbit where it could be retrieved. This means it is much less of a problem leaving it in place. Unlike Mir, and Spacelab, if it is partway to geosynchronous, above where the shuttle can retrieve it, its orbit isn't going to decay to an altitude where it might crash for eons.

      ...Retrieve and Relaunch ... would be pretty hard, IMHO, to snatch a sattilite, return it to earth, and relauch it without further damaging it...

      How do you figure this? Matching orbits won't be a problem. NASA, and the Russian space agency, must have done this thousands of times by now. Heck, didn't the tugs that supplied Mir do it by remote control? (-8 And they only crashed one once. 8-)

      Isn't the robot arm strong enough, yet gentle enough to grab it, once it has matched orbits? Maybe they wouldn't be able to roll the photocells back up. What other problems did you anticipate?

      That leaves us with repair, the most reasonable option. Send up some guys on the next shuttle mission with Duct Tape (about $1.50 a roll, depending on store and brand). Voila! Problem solved!

      Yeah, we'll send Red Green. (whose movie, "Duct tape forever", opens up any day now. And my buddy who wins stuff won us advance tickets for the local sneak preview.)

      Seriously though, my question is, if Boeing has to wait for a next generation shuttle to retrieve it, how many years should they wait, before the satellite last its value? Two years? Five years? Ten years? Whose next generation shuttle will be ready first?

      If the Soviets could make robot frieghters dock with Mir, why can't someone make a robot tug just large enough to fly to high orbit satellites like this, and tow them down to where the shuttle can retrieve them?

    2. Re:Cost of Repairs vs. Relaunch vs. Reentry by adminispheroid · · Score: 3, Informative
      Well, NASA has 3 choices Re-entry, Retrieve and Relauch, or Repair.

      I fear this post has missed an essential point -- as the article makes clear, this isn't NASA's problem, it's Boeing's problem. NASA doesn't pay for the thing and doesn't own it until it's in the right orbit.

  4. The real reason... by SHiFTY1000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    NASA Engineer: I dont understand... I only shoved 3 gallons in that tank, it should be fine! Whats that? Litres you say? Oh not again...

  5. Older rescue by Account+10 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is the story of the successful rescue of an Intelsat after it failed to seperate from its rocket and got stuck in a low orbit. It took 6 tries over 3 days for the shuttle crew to catch it.

    The TDRS satellite has a similar mass to the Intelsat

    1. Re:Older rescue by jerryasher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, and depending on which web site you visit, the shuttle has launched up to seven of these tdrs satellites (but I don't know if any were of the same weight as this one). If it can safely launch one, then I have to assume that (ignoring fuel leaks) it can land with one.

  6. Shuttle designed for it by ZigMonty · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm sure it is more dangerous to land a shuttle with all that extra weight in the cargo area.

    The shuttle is designed to be able to bring satellites back. From the link:

    The space shuttle is the world's first reusable spacecraft, and the first spacecraft in history that can carry large satellites both to and from orbit.

    Now, whether it's more dangerous to bring back a satellite leaking fuel is another matter! I figure that they'd drain it before bringing it back though.

  7. Re:Will Boeing take the $825m hit? by jerryasher · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the past it has been the insurance companies that take the hit. Of course, with each failure to achieve orbit, insurance prices have risen and risen, such that now, there is a reasonable chance that Boeing has self-insured this satellite.

  8. liquid fuel? by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Leaking fuel? As in liquid fuel? Since when can the shuttle carry up payloads with liquid fuel?

    Following the Challenger explosion, one of the safety regs imposed was that no payload could have liquid fuel. This required the Galileo team to adjust the launch trajectory for the spacecraft to include 2 slingshots around the inner solar system.

  9. Shuttle rescue unlikely by Jonathan+McDowell · · Score: 3, Informative
    As I pointed out in my newsletter JSR on Friday (before the BBC story, I note :-)) it's unlikely that they will try a Shuttle rescue because it would take more fuel to get down to a Shuttle orbit than to get up to GEO, given where it is now. All the previous rescues involved satellites in much lower orbit. Oh, and as a side note to the poster who commented on the post-Challenger regulations, it's only liquid hydrogen that the Shuttle won't deal with in the payload bay, there have been plenty of payloads since then which have had hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide on board, which is what the BSS-601 satellites like TDRS-I carry.

    I draw slashdot's attention to the fact that the story was originally broken by Keith Cowing's excellent NASA Watch web page. I expect that they will get the bird to GEO, although Space Command doesn't seem to have issued any new orbital data for it in several days.

    1. Re:Shuttle rescue unlikely by Buran · · Score: 3, Interesting
      From http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters /discovery.html:
      "Two orbiters, Challenger and Discovery , were modified at KSC to enable them to carry the Centaur upper stage in the payload bay. These modifications included extra plumbing to load and vent Centaur's cryogenic (L02/LH2) propellants (other IUS/PAM upper stages use solid propellants), and controls on the aft flight deck for loading and monitoring the Centaur stage. No Centaur flight was ever flown and after the loss of Challenger it was decided that the risk was too great to launch a shuttle with a fueled Centaur upper stage in the payload bay."

      I think the modifications have since been removed. We now have no shuttle capable of launching a Centaur upper stage -- the other was destroyed. I have often wondered if this really is all that dangerous, considering the fact that the hydrazine maneuvering fuel used on many satellites the Shuttle launches is hypergolic, meaning it will ignite on contact with its oxidizer, no spark needed. Hydrogen and oxygen, on the other hand, require an ignition system.

  10. Blame the guy they appointed President. by fmaxwell · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work in the aerospace industry. It's not NASA that needs convincing. It's President Bush. He has cut funding severely on some NASA programs like the International Space Station, where that the U.S. will not even be keeping its promises to its partners. The Pluto-Kuiper Express and Solar Probe were both cancelled due to his budget. He cut $207 million from the overall budget of NASA's Earth Science program, which uses satellites to study the effects of natural and human-induced changes on the global environment. (I worked on one of the satellites associated with that program and the satellite is now mothballed at my company.)

    If you want rockets to be used in weapons, elect a Republican President. If you want rockets to be used for space exploration and science, elect a Democrat. Just look at history. It was Kennedy who saw space exploration as a source of national pride. He pushed the Apollo program. It was Nixon who cut Apollo short by three landings and basically gutted NASA. Nixon ignored the recommendatons for Mars explorations made by his own task force. He only agreed to fund the development of the space shuttle because it would "bring the price of going into space down".

    Reagan pushed NASA and the shuttle into ever-increasing military roles, launching military satellites and contributing to the "Star Wars" efforts. In addition, the Reagan administration directed NASA to cancel one of its ongoing space science missions (the the International Solar Polar mission), and seriously considered terminating the entire solar system exploration program and transferring the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to some other government agency.

    Of course, when the main thrust of an administration is tax cuts for the wealthy, it's not surprising when funding for NASA suffers.