Spy v. Spy

An anonymous reader writes "MSNBC is reporting on a brewing battle between makers of spy software and anti-spy software. According to this article the makers of Spector and WinWhatWhere have added a feature to their new software that disables the popular anti-spy software Who's Watching Me."

Comments

Mmmm.. FUN! And a legal nightmare..

[Fixer]

IANAL, BIAAIL (But I Am An Interested Layman)..

Okay, this is my computer. I purchase a piece of software that is supposed to detect snooping software hiding out on my machine. Said snooping software destroys my anti-snooper, interfering with it's proper operation and generally depriving me of it's service that I have paid for.

Shouldn't I be able to sue the snooper software, as I did not ask for it and did not give any kind of authorization for it's installation into my system? To say nothing of the trespassing charges I'm going to bring against the snooper developer..

Re:Mmmm.. FUN! And a legal nightmare..

[donutello]

if the spyware was installed by someone who doesnt own the computer

In that case, shouldn't you sue the person who installed it rather than the company who makes the software? Didn't we all agree that there was nothing wrong with writing DeCSS or Napster or other software - it was only the person using it for illegal purposes who was at fault?

Grounds for divorce.

[sulli]

I'm not married, but if I were, and I found my partner using WinWhatWhere or equivalent, I would walk out the same day. Such things are just not cool.

That reminds me of an entry from the Jargon File

[drewish_princess]

OS and JEDGAR

This story says a lot about the ITS ethos.

On the ITS system there was a program that allowed you to see what was being printed on someone else's terminal. It spied on the other guy's output by examining the insides of the monitor system. The output spy program was called OS. Throughout the rest of the computer science world (and at IBM too) OS means `operating system', but among old-time ITS hackers it almost always meant `output spy'.

OS could work because ITS purposely had very little in the way of `protection' that prevented one user from trespassing on another's areas. Fair is fair, however. There was another program that would automatically notify you if anyone started to spy on your output. It worked in exactly the same way, by looking at the insides of the operating system to see if anyone else was looking at the insides that had to do with your output. This `counterspy' program was called JEDGAR (a six-letterism pronounced as two syllables: /jed'gr/), in honor of the former head of the FBI.

But there's more. JEDGAR would ask the user for `license to kill'. If the user said yes, then JEDGAR would actually gun the job of the luser who was spying. Unfortunately, people found that this made life too violent, especially when tourists learned about it. One of the systems hackers solved the problem by replacing JEDGAR with another program that only pretended to do its job. It took a long time to do this, because every copy of JEDGAR had to be patched. To this day no one knows how many people never figured out that JEDGAR had been defanged.

Interestingly, there is still a security module named JEDGAR alive as of late 1994 -- in the Unisys MCP for large systems. It is unknown to us whether the name is tribute or independent invention.

This is a trojan horse, plain and simple.

[realgone]

you can't blame a company for pulling this kind of tactic if it's the easiest way to do it.

Sure you can. Watch. I'll do it right now. =)

Without warning the user, WinWhatWhere disables another piece of software for which that person has paid good money. That's like IE deleting Netscape if it detects it on your system. That's like your trusty Chevy switching to Battlebots mode every time it detects a Honda in the highway.

It's destruction of property. (Or, since we're talking about software here, illegally depriving someone of their licensed usage of a product.)

Re: Corporate use of spyware

[Raetsel]

I've read about the use of spyware in the past... some very large companies make use of it. I seem to remember that Deloitte & Touche uses some spyware that's rather... comprehensive. I want to say some of the features included (among other things)...

• Logging every keystroke you make
• Logging the title of every window you open
• Recording screenshots of windows
• E-Mailing all of this to a designated person...

Not only is it something they use internally, it's also something they use in their consulting activities, on their clients' computers! You hire them, and you're under a microscope... very Big Brother. It goes way beyond the spying that's possible with the last version of Microsoft SMS that I used. (I admit, it's been a while!) Also, I've noticed that some people really don't pay attention to the fact that SMS has 'remote viewing' capabilities -- your sysadmin can watch you browse just like he/she watches the evening news. Then again, SMS's installation is rather obvious -- at least to the technically inclined.

I have to consider the other hand as well... If you're hiring a consulting company, they have an obligation to do their job to the best of their ability. That means using all the resources legally available to them -- no matter how distasteful. If you've got someone who's supposed to be doing data entry, and they're actually running their own little eBay store out of the supply room... well, you're going to need all the ammo you can get to convince the boss to fire his brother!

With the sentiment of "It's OUR computer, OUR time, and OUR money!", I don't think you're going to be seeing spyware-free companies advertising the fact anytime soon.

In fact, with the precedent that computers have been and continue to be monitored; a company could incur severe liability for deliberately not monitoring! Consider the potential liability burden when you don't catch sexual harrasment or some particularly nasty criminal activity... What happens to the company when it's shown that 'standard industry practices' would have given advance warning of, or even prevented [some illegal event]?

What happens? A check with LOTS of zeros to the left of the decimal... at the best, your lawyer gets it. At worst, THEIR lawyer gets one, THEY get one, etc...

From a Ex-Spector developer...

[chedrick]

I was one of the original authors and an original founder back in '98. We sold our shares in '99 and got out because of the way it was being marketed. The product was never intended to be a "Catch your cheating husband" type of product. It was intended to monitor your child's Internet experiences and protect them from pedophiles. Doug Fowler (dfowler@spectorsoft.com) was the guy that pushed this tactic of spying on your partner and your employees. We felt that monitoring another adult, without their knowledge, clearly violated their civil rights! They avoid lawsuits now by placing a disclaimer that you agree to inform the individual that you monitor. In reality, no one ever does.
It's a classic case of the marketing weenies convoluting a product to fit a malformed business model. There's MORE MONEY selling a product to catch your "cheating husband" than to protect your kids. It feed on paranoia.

The good news is most developers could spot this product on their machine. Keystrokes slow down, mystery files appear, etc. It leaves a small footprint, but it's still a footprint. Don't look for it (Spector) in Task Manager. It's hiding in another application.

Duh, the easiest solution...

[psxndc]

Is hide your pr0n on a separate computer. OpenBSD's learning curve is so high, my girlfriend will never find it.

psxndc