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What Software Should ISPs Distribute and Support?
BroadbandBradley asks: "Many ISPs give their customers a software package to install with their service like a branded browser/email package. Some also include network diagnostics tools, even remote connection VNC packages for technical reps to do remote support. The ISP will then tell customer that they'll only get help if they're using that package. What features are good or bad, and what should or shouldn't be included on the client side? My question to Slashdot readers is, what software and services should ISPs distribute and support?"
No matter what we support, the answer to most calls is still "Reboot, reconnect it should work now". No matter what is installed, 80% of our calls will be OS related problems.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
It may be usefull if the user can connect but isn't able to figure out how to configure their mail/news/IM client.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
Most Isp give out a web browser and a mail tool this is the minimum.
They should deffently know how to install and configure every version of windows dail up networking, I know that every one is a linux fan but try teaching that to some one makeing $8-16 an hour.
I personaly feel that all an ISP is responsiblle for is getting you dailed up and conected to the internet so they support their mail client their choice of browser and know how to get you conected and that is it
madness takes its toll please have exact change
It used to be that the basic software that local isp would send you was a browser (90% of the time it was Netscape) and an email program (like pegasus) that was mostly since most OSes didn't come with anything at all (win 3.x, old Mac OS)
but now unless you have a portal what's the point in handing anything out as more then a "nice option" ??
VNC for support is just silly (like someone said above) no connection no support
only thing I would see as usefull would be a virus scanner or something like that.
"there is a marmot in the bucket ? I'll go fix that." (don't ask)
Don't give them some heavily branded browser that is going to start a lot of junk every time you log in. Simpler is better. Don't install protocols they don't need. When I first got my cable modem, @home tried to install Microsoft Networking, a heavily branded browser and a bunch of other junk. Luckily my computer was still in transit so I just grabbed the modem and the numbers and didn't have to call them back. Why on earth would you want MS networking for a home computer to surf the net?
Do give them a minimal version of os requirement. If you tell them they need to have windows 95, and that you don't support win3.x, then you know they have a telnet client and will support that, for example.
Do require a minimum version of both ie and netscape. And then write your web pages to support both equally. Do provide unbranded versions of those browsers on cd and support the installation.
Do give them a web interface to their e-mail. Support that. And remember the minimal browser recommendation.
Do give them a real pop account so that those people that know what they are doing can set up their preferred e-mail client. Don't support those clients officially. This gives you control over the interface so your help people will always know what the customer is using.
For ftp, just pick a program you like. ws_ftpLE on the windows side and something on the mac.
Now the tough choices, newsgroups and chat. Since the chat clients are going back and forth on interoperability, you'll have to make 2 decisions. You'll have to decide if you are going to support a chat client. I'd personally say no, and here's why. Customers will want to use the client that all of their friends use, so if you tell them you won't support msn chat but will support icq, for example, you could lose customers. The alternative is to support the 3 or 4 major clients, and no more. The problem is that you'll have to keep up with lot's of different version which could be a problem. Of course, I don't do the icq/chat thing so take that with a grain of salt.
Which brings us to newsgroups. You need to decide if you are going to host them at all, just non-binaries or something in the middle. I'd say that the best reader for windows is Agent. So maybe you could get a licensing deal with them and spread the cost around. The alternative, outlook, doesn't enter into the picture because of security problems.
But that's just my thoughts.
The larger the ISP, the larger the marketing department, and consequently, the less I trust bundled ISPware.
I've been to the homes of n00bs, and seen some truly sickening stuff - one poor person was paying $19.99 per month (the same as any other user), for a custom browser that (a) crashed reproducibly on certain specific emails, (b) beamed banner ads every 30 seconds, and (c) looked like nothing I'd ever seen before - like the worst of Netscape, IE, and AOL rolled into one.) I think it was called Encompass. (Acquired, not coincidentally, by Yahoo in 1999).
Since I saw that, I no longer patronize ISPs that require the use of branded products.
So my answer to your question would be "I don't give a damn what you may distribute and support, so long as there's an easily-located web page or phone support script that allows me to find the IP addresses of your primary/secondary DNS servers, and the FQDNs of your POP, SMTP, NNTP, FTP and news servers, what number I can use to connect, and what to enter as a name/password combination when I do."
What you do with the n00bz is your own business.
Yes, you may not be using adware/spyware/malware - but because I don't trust you, I'm not gonna install your bundle to find out. If I can't set up the box without your branded bundle, I'll just take my business elsewhere.
hundreds of technical support reps with all kinds of users. the current IE/OE support.com package takes about 3 reboots to install. we support Win and MAC right now.
beyond that, IE runs into lots of other issues with adware, and changing the OS around when you upgrade...it makes big waves.
I'm just wondering what other ISP's use and what kind of issues they've run into.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
In other words, there's exactly two programs the ISP should support; ping and traceroute.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I work tech support for a large University who will remain nameless so they don't get angry at me. We get calls all the time from people trying to use email, and more importantly virus problems. Let me just make it clear. Outlook has some serious security vulnerabilities. With the Klez virus running around right now, we're all going a little nuts... and like every other headline-making-virus in the past 4 years, it's exploiting vulnerabilities in MS Outlook and Outlook Express. The one piece of advice I can give is DO NOT EVER reccomend that someone use Outlook! We have some kind of site license to give out an ad-free version of Eudora, but I also find that Netscape's Messenger works just fine. There are a billion other free email programs out there that I don't have experience with. Outlook is the ONLY one with these vulnerabilities! Some people may be smart enough to not click on an unknown attachment, but with some viruses and Outlook, you don't even have to click on it. From a support perspective, taking away the security issues, I've found that it's just easier to walk people through the settings on Netscape and Eudora (keep in mind this is over the phone) than it is on Outlook.
Ok let me take on this remark because I think you are missing a few big points.
...).
;)
1) As other posters have pointed out most slashdot readers are much better at computers then normal users. For us offering no or little support is less of an issue (except when the network is down, even the most technical still love to bitch when something is down
2) Most any company that sets their mind to it can offer dial up, or other Internet services. It is not all that hard really as long as you have a few tech people that have a clue. What sets apart a good ISP (the S is for Service) for the rest is good tech support. When a customer calls and says I can not get my email or heaven for bid ebay is not working the tech on the phone needs to know how to 'make ebay work again'. Also in many cases those same support people that are making ebay work again are also the ones that are working with vendors (LEC's, hardware, data, etc) so one way or another they are needed in the organization anyway.
Those are only a few points, but I think you get the picture. O yeah I happen to work at an ISP so I do have a bit of real world exprieane on this one
man
No manual entry for
As I work ISP tech support, I have to say that I agree with most ISPs only providing one general software package and supporting just what's included in it (whether it includes IE, Netscape, and/or any custom software).
The simple fact is that, as others have illustrated, the majority of ISP users are "casual" users - they literally panic at the thought of having to setup anything manually (even something so relatively simple as adding a mail account in Outlook Express). Most of these users won't even contemplate going out to download something that wasn't included in the default installation... I can't tell you how many times I've had a technical support chat where the browser showed up as "IE 5.0" even though it's now a few years old!
The people who really are technically skilled just don't need the support to begin with. They know how to get Netscape, Opera, Eudora, and so on - and probably won't even need to check a website for instructions to set it up. As such, it's really just better to support what comes with the ISP (or the OS); give the support to the people who really need it!
I would just note, of course, that this doesn't mean that I'm endorsing Microsoft's old "IE or the highway" strategy with Windows - I just think that it would be quite a burden to expect an ISP to support every modern browser/e-mail app that happens to be available for download. If an ISP includes more than one company's program (or one besides IE), all the more power to them.
You called Qwest didn't you...sounds like someone from one of our Call Centers...
If you ever have to call qwest, immediately ask to talk to Tier 1.5 and don't let them talk you out of it or tell you they don't exist...
Linux Experience-
Tier 1(the main people)-2% (at most)
Tier 1.5-probably 50%
Competience
Tier 1-40%
Tier 1.5-95% (Ben is the best over there)
........
To answer the question, though, Qwest only Supports IE 5.x, Netscape 4.x, Win>=95, Mac OS >=8 != X.
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I have heard horror stories and taken calls where the customer has had techs worst than the customer...
Caller-"I don't seem to have hyperterminal"
Tech-"I am sorry sir, you will have to reinstall Windows"
!
This was in the case notes for a caller...
"
OS:Windows Lynux....
ISSUE:told caller that I would not support him
TROUBLESHOOTING:told caller that I would not support him
RESOLUTION:told caller that I would not support him
"
!
...and more case notes...
"
...
EMAIL:Eudora
ISSUE:caller wants pop servers
TROUBLESHOOTING:told him that we would not give them to him because we don't support Eudora
....
"
!
I loved it when I was listening to calls during training and I heard a tech say..."What is Linux". The problem is, is that many of the techs at our place are either >50 yrs old or ex-cons on work release. Many only come to get the training. The first week of training is horrible, the first lesson was on how to double click.
You aren't the only linux user to do that. I had a guy that claims he was using windows 95...
Me-"Ok, what do you see in that control panel"
Caller-"Umm...I don't know"
Me-"Just read it off"
Caller-"Ok, I am using Linux, I know you don't support it, so I guess I will had to get windows on here"
Me-"JNo, Its OK, you should have told me..."
If anyone wants, I will throw up a webpage with complete case notes of junk like this...just email me.
FYI...I will support any OS, I have even had FreeBSD.
forget it.
The best example of bad bundled software was @Home's-- it was crap, plain and simple. Wow, you mean you're giving me OLD versions of IE and OE that kill my existing bookmarks, reset my homepage, and wreak other havoc? All just so the browser and mail program have your stupid animated logo instead of the default one? Oh, I can't wait to install it!
:-)
Way back when I got my cable modem (now replaced by DSL), Comcast sent out hardware guys and software guys separately. Mind you, this was long before the days of the self-install kit. The hardware guys did their job, but when the software guy showed up I didn't let him in the door. "Just gimme the config sheet with the server addresses, and be on your way," I said. And he did, and I amazingly survived for years with only the default IE throbber to watch while pages loaded.
The only useful app in that whole shitty bundle was the one that tested the @Home servers so I could find out exactly what was wrong before calling up to yell at the support monkeys.
Even worse, the Comcast.net software was even bigger shit-- almost every one of my clients who used @Home had their systems pretty well screwed by running that damned installer. Though on the plus side, I made quite a bit of money un-fucking things for them.
~Philly