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Tivo 3.0 'Firebolt' Hits the Wild

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the good-luck-the-first-round dept.

James Evans writes "Tivo is rolling out version 3.0 of their software, including Ethernet drivers as well as the ability to download program data directly from a cable broadcast without using the phone line." My guess is it'll be awhile before everyone gets it since these things come in waves.

24 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Whats the general opinion on tivo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative


    decide for yourself

    of course they could be biased and things might of changed etc but then they might not and be totally impartial, the choice is yours

  2. Re:Unwitting Testers? by amuro98 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't know where they got that from...

    The last time Tivo rolled an update out, they took volunteers for an external beta program. I was a beta volunteer for one of the previous updates.

    When the beta program ended, Tivo rolled the update to the rest of their customers.

    Regardless of whether you were a volunteer or not, whenever you get an update, your Tivo gets a message for you with information about what's changed, etc.

  3. Re:What else can we use this for? by amuro98 · · Score: 5, Informative

    There have been a few hacks developed in the past for Tivo that involved ethernet. Your best bet is to read the Tivo AV Forums:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/

    In particular, check out the tivo-underground board there.

  4. Re:I'm a bit confused by this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The series 1 Tivos always had ethernet drivers tucked away inside. (the development environment uses an ethernet 'debug' board that plugs into the same edge connector that the Tivonet/Turbonet boards use) Tivo isn't really doing anything spectacular here - it's just saying "we know that you know that ethernet is in there, and we're embracing it, not removing or disabling it".

  5. Re:receiving data by furiousgeorge · · Score: 4, Informative

    >>So what exactly am I paying $9.95 a month for? >>I could understand the charge before because >>they had to pay for their 800 number, but now >>why should I pay for service when the box can
    >>do everything itself?

    were you operating under the belief that cable services are free? Whoever the cable operator is will sure as hell charge TIVO for the bandwidth they use. Plus you're paying for the program guide information.

  6. Tivo Beta preview results by twfry · · Score: 5, Informative
    I was lucky enough to get on the tivo 3.0 beta program and received the update about a week ago. Here is what I noticed.

    1) For the most part the user interface is the same. The update seems to have focused on improvements to the core app. For example the now playing list draws much faster.

    2) It records many more shows from the suggestions list which is good. I bumped my tivo up to 100+ hours a while back and it used to record only 3-4 unscheduled shows a day. Now it graps something like 10 and really makes use of all that space.

    3) TivoNet warning: it will overwrite all of your setup files if you installed a network card. Looks like its time to open the box again. :(

    Here is what Tivo has to say about the update.

    Improvements to TiVo's Suggestions

    TiVo's Suggestions has gotten even better at finding programs you might enjoy. If your TiVo automatically records TiVo's Suggestions, you may notice improvements soon.

    If you have chosen not to automatically record TiVo's Suggestions, this is a good time to try them again. You can automatically record TiVo's Suggestions again by going to TiVo Central > My Preferences > TiVo's Suggestions.

    Even if you don't automatically record TiVo's Suggestions, you can always browse through them (and set up your own recordings) by going to TiVo Central > Pick Programs to Record > TiVo's Suggestions

    Improved Data Downloads

    Your TiVo can now record TiVo Service data from specially broadcast programs. It receives these programs automatically and will never cancel or delete your shows to get them. This means shorter Daily Calls. If you do not have cable as your program source, TiVo will use the phone line as always.

    The special programs will be recorded about once a week, usually between 2am and 5am. If you watch TV at these times, the TiVo Service may ask to change the channel to receive a special program. While the TiVo Service will work if the special programs do not record, it's a good idea to allow such channel changes whenever you can.

    Record All Episodes with Duplicates

    Season Passes will not record a program if the program's description is long enough and matches the description of another program recorded within 28 days. This is called the "28 day rule" and is used to avoid duplicate recordings.

    However, you may want to record shows with identical descriptions. You might want to do this if your child expects a certain program to be recorded every week, or if a program is pre-empted (e.g., for news or a ballgame in overtime) and the broadcaster airs the same program a week later.

    You can now turn off the 28 day rule and record duplicate episodes by selecting a new recording option, "Show Type: All (with duplicates)." Just go to TiVo Central > Pick Programs to Record > Season Pass Manager. Select the Season Pass, then select "Change Recording Options." Change "Show Type" to "All (with duplicates)."

    1. Re:Tivo Beta preview results by Sorklin · · Score: 3, Informative

      What's changed is that the suggestions now are getting information through the call. It indexes the suggestions sort of like Amazon's suggestions. It looks for other user's likes and dislikes. So if you like show X, tivo knows that 100 other people who liked show X like show Y but not show Z, and acts accordingly.

      Look for this to get better and better with time.

      But it does leave the option of trying to social engineer the suggestions. It also may leave a wide open gap for Tivo to make a suggestion of their own (which I think already happens).

  7. Re:I'm a bit confused by this... by tube013 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The deal is they are unofficially supporting both the tivonet and turbonet boards in gen 1 boxes, and including support for various usb-ethernet dongles.

    They have actually worked with the developers of both the tivonet and turbonet to include specialized drivers for those devices-- ie jafa, creator of the turbonet as a pretty fine tuned driver for the board, and they are including that driver with 3.0 - unofficially supporting turbonet with no software hacking.

    to sum it up get a gen 1 standalone box with 3.0 on it stick a turbonet or tivonet board in there, and it will work, not software tweaking involved (as long as you have a dhcp server there to hand out an ip address)

  8. Re:Build your own by Sc00ter · · Score: 3, Informative
    Okay, where's my season passes that automatically record programs for me so I don't have to keep entering in times and channel numbers? where's the ability to only record new shows and not repeats, where's my thumbs up/down so it will automatically record shows it thinks I might like?

    There's more to TiVo then just a ditital VCR.

    --
    Free Mac Mini
  9. hey! support OPENPVR instead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Instead of spending money on a tivo, go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/openpvr/
    and get involved. when this is done, you'll be able to turn your linux box into something like a tivo for only the cost of a tv tuner card and possibly another hard drive.

  10. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  11. Re:I'm a bit confused by this... by pmcneill · · Score: 4, Informative

    It actually goes beyond Tivo being nice to the hacker community -- it's saving them money. When Tivo dials up each night, it uses a UUNet internet connection, so each call costs Tivo money. By allowing hackers to use their broadband connections, Tivo no longer has to support UUNet for that customer. Support costs don't increase, since I'm sure Tivo won't support a hacked unit. So all in all, its a win-win situation.

  12. Re:Can anybody read the schedule data? by pmcneill · · Score: 4, Informative

    The data is indeed encrypted. Tivos will still have to dial-in to get the decryption keys, which presumably will expire to keep people from stealing subscriptions. More info here.

  13. Re:Can anybody read the schedule data? by Jerf · · Score: 4, Informative

    The guide data probably isn't copyrightable.

    Actually, it probably is, if it contains all the data the current guide data does. The program summaries, ratings, and categorizations are definately copyrightable. You'd have to ask a copyright lawyer if you could extract the raw titles and times, which are what most people care about. You'd be extracting non-copyrightable material from a copyrighted feed, and I don't know if that counts as a "derivative product". (Note I wouldn't put any stock in wild Slashdot theories on this point; I study IP as much as any non-lawyer, and I don't think a non-lawyer can answer this question. It may not even have an answer.)

    And of course if it's encrypted at all, the DMCA will completely protect it, regardless.

  14. Re:I'm a bit confused by this... by aligas · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those who didn't read the article and have Series2 units, this is from the article/thread.

    List of supported USB adapters:
    3Com USB Ethernet 3C460B
    USB 10/100 Fast Ethernet
    USB HPNA/Ethernet
    Accton USB 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
    SpeedStream USB 10/100 Ethernet
    ADMtek ADM8511 Pegasus II USB Ethernet
    ADMtek AN986 Pegasus USB Ethernet (eval. board)
    Allied Telesyn Int. AT-USB100
    Belkin F5D5050 USB Ethernet
    Billionton USB-100
    Billionton USBE-100
    Billionton USBEL-100
    Billionton USBLP-100
    iPAQ Networking 10/100 USB
    Corega FEter USB-TX
    D-Link DSB-650
    D-Link DSB-650TX
    D-Link DSB-650TX(PNA)
    Elsa Micolink USB2Ethernet
    Hawking UF100 10/100 Ethernet
    IO DATA USB ET/TX
    IO DATA USB ET/TX-S
    Kingston KNU101TX Ethernet
    LANEED USB Ethernet LD-USB/T
    LANEED USB Ethernet LD-USB/TX
    Linksys USB100TX
    Linksys USB10TX
    Linksys USB Ethernet Adapter
    Linksys USB USB10TX
    MELCO/BUFFALO LUA2-TX
    MELCO/BUFFALO LUA-TX
    SpeedStream USB 10/100 Ethernet
    SmartNIC 2 PnP Adapter
    SMC 202 USB Ethernet
    SOHOware NUB100 Ethernet

  15. The Real Details and Current Discussion by aligas · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can find the the best information on this subject on the TiVo Community forums thread called "3.0 will (UN-)Support Broadband Connections. Its linked below.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread. ph p?s=&threadid=54620

  16. Re:I'm a bit confused by this... by Hallow · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, it is meant to support the hacker community. Tivo/TurboNet cards will work without additional software installations, no pulling out your hdd. See this post by a TiVo employee.

    They won't support it if you call them, but that's why there's http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/

  17. Re:Life, or Tivo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Not true.
    I find if you have a life and want and have time to watch a little tv each week, then tivo works great.
    Personally, I find it strange that everyone wants tivo to give away their service without a monthy/annual fee. Build your own PVR/whatever and you won't have anywhere near the ease/performance of tivo. I'm sick of all you losers that cry about spending an extra ten bucks a month for a service you actually use. Using your logic, phone should be free (cell and landline), Internet access, drugs, gas, etc. I paid for my phone, why do I have a monthy fee? I paid for my car, why do I have to buy gas? I bought a tv, why isn't HBO free? I bought a modem, why does Earthlink want my cash? I bought the pipe, why does the dealer still ask me to pay up? Why isn't everything everything free?

  18. Re:Onboard ethernet controller - who cares. . . by steveeq2 · · Score: 1, Informative

    > My 9th tee controller works with 2.5. I'm > running 2.5.1-01-1-000 and haven't had my tivo > plugged into the phone jack for months. Plus, > I can telnet to it and copy mpegs from it, so > it's obviously working.

    That's because you don't have the new ROM which is shipped on most TIVO motherboards nowadays. When that new ROM is in there, it will detect any changes to the linux OS and overwrite the changes with the code that is encoded in the ROM.

    -Steve

  19. The real skinny on ethernet support! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the 3.0 software itself, in the TClient-lib.itcl file (where the dialing code used to be).

    Stupid slashdot lameness filter! A # was in front of every line of the following...


    If you're looking for the TClient scripts which were used in the
    1.x and 2.x releases of the TiVo software - they no longer exist.

    In 3.0, the TClient process was entirely rewritten in C++, and the
    old TCL implementation was retired. The primary reason for doing
    this was memory usage - the tivosh shell was rather memory-hungry,
    and this caused some system problems during daily-call processing.
    The new C++ implemention of TClient is smaller, faster, and more
    efficient.

    The bad news is that if you came to this file to (re)install the
    "PPP over the serial port" modification which has been floating around
    on the Net, you can't do so by editing anything in this directory.
    The call management just isn't done that way any more.

    Because this appears to have been a popular mod among many of our
    most avid users, I was able to get permission to add PPP-over-the-
    serial-port support to the C++ implementation of TClient. You can
    enable this feature from the user interface via a back-door code.

    To do so, go to Setup and Messages -> Recorder & Phone Setup ->
    Phone Connection -> Change Dialing Options -> Set Dial Prefix.

    Enter a dialing prefix of "Pause Enter X N N" (displays as ",#XNN")
    where "X" is the backdoor code ("2" or "3") and "NN" is the first two
    numeric digits of the serial port speed you wish to use. Use a
    backdoor code of "2" if your PPP server simply starts negotiation
    with no preamble. Use a backdoor code of "3" if your PPP server
    includes a modem emulation and expects to go through a dial / connect /
    prompt / login sequence prior to beginning PPP negotiation.

    For example, ",#219" selects a speed of 19200 bits/second and begins
    PPP negotiation immediately. ",#357" selects a speed of 57600
    bits/second and performs modem-dialing emulation and login prior
    to starting PPP negotiation.

    Speeds that the software will recognize include 96[00], 19[200], 38[400],
    57[600], 11[5200], and 23[0400] bits/second.

    High speeds may or may not work properly - success will depend on
    the type of PC you're using, the length of the serial-port cable,
    and probably on the phase of the moon. The TiVo external serial port
    does not support flow control - configure your peer equipment
    accordingly. Specifying speeds which are either too high, or too
    low may result in loss of data and poor throughput.

    PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS AN UNSUPPORTED FEATURE. It is "officially
    undocumented". TiVo does not promise that it will work for you,
    either now or in the future, and doesn't promise that it'll always
    be available. TiVo does not recommend that you use this un-
    feature, does not encourage you to do so, and disclaims any
    responsibility for any problems which may occur, directly or
    indirectly, should you choose to make use of this un-feature.
    As the preacher said in Blazing Saddles: "Son, you're on your own!"

    Please do NOT call TiVo Customer Care with bug reports, or for assistance
    with this un-feature, or to ask how to set up a PPP server - they
    either won't know what you're talking about, or will tell you that
    they can't help you. There's a good deal of information available
    out on the Web (especially via the TiVo forum at AV Science) concerning
    TiVo and home-grown PPP servers, network address translation (NAT'ing,
    IP masquerading, IP proxying), etc. - please refer to these sources rather
    than calling TiVo. If a bunch of people start calling Customer Care
    demanding help and support for this un-feature, I may be told to pull
    it out of future software releases.

    OK? OK, I hope.

    That being said - one Linux configuration I tested this with,
    quite successfully, used the following command to configure the PPP
    server:

    /usr/sbin/pppd /dev/ttyS1 115200 $MYADDR:$HISADDR passive \
    persist local proxyarp nocrtscts noauth holdoff 10 nodetach nodeflate

    In most cases, home-broadband users would probably want to use
    NAT / IP masquerade, rather than (or in addition to) proxy ARP.

    We've been given the OK to add a similar level of non-support for
    another popular non-feature - TiVo daily calls via a broadband
    network adapter.

    To use this non-feature, you'll need a network adapter of a variety
    that your particular TiVo system (un)supports. For the Series 2
    systems, the adapters in question are various USB models based on the
    Pegasus and RTL8150 chips. We've tested several such Ethernet
    adapters (there are some HomePNA adapters also but we haven't tested
    these) but can't recommend specific models - manufacturers change
    their designs fairly frequently. For the original "standalone" TiVo system,
    you probably know what you need, hardware-wise (*cough*tivonet*cough*)
    and you've read and understood and accepted all of the dire warnings
    about the risks of opening up the cabinet and installing unsupported
    and untested hardware.

    You'll also need a local area network, on which is running a device
    which acts as a DHCP server capable of "leasing out" an IP address
    to your TiVo system and providing network/netmask/default-gateway
    information. Most of the popular "home gateway / router / firewall"
    products are capable of acting as DHCP servers, as are Linux- and
    other Unix-type systems. TiVo can't help you select, purchase,
    configure, or troubleshoot any such devices or software. It's a
    *very* good idea to have some such device acting as a firewall between
    your home LAN and the Internet, no matter what sorts of PCs and
    Internet-enabled devices you have installed in your home.

    In order to use a broadband connection, the network adapter must
    be suitably configured (if it needs configuration) before you
    plug it in. It must be connected to the TiVo recorder when the
    system is powered up - "hot plugging" of a USB network adapter is
    not currently supported, "hot unplugging" of an adapter while in
    use might crash the system, and of course any sort of "hot
    [un]plugging" of an ISA network adapter would be an incredibly
    bad idea.

    If a suitable network adapter is found at boot time, the TiVo device
    will start up a DHCP client and will configure the adapter for use.

    In order to actually cause daily (or other) TiVo service calls to
    use your broadband connection, you must enable this feature via
    another dial-prefix "back door" code - use ",#401". Once this
    feature is enabled, the system will attempt to use your network
    adapter (if present) for all daily and service calls. The system
    will not, at this time, "fall back" gracefully and revert to the
    modem if your broadband connection is down - it's broadband or
    nothing. To switch back to the modem, clear the back-door dial
    prefix string.

    If you make a modem-based call, the PPP daemon will deliberately remove
    any "default" network route(s) specified by your DHCP server, in order to
    ensure that the call traffic actually travels via the modem. If you
    then wish to start "making calls" via your broadband adapter, you must
    enter the dial-prefix backdoor code, and then arrange to have the
    DHCP software re-install a default route to your local network gateway.
    You can do this by waiting until your DHCP lease is renewed (the lease and
    renewal times are specified by whatever DHCP server you're running), or
    more quickly by restarting your TiVo recorder.

    There's no non-support yet for 802.11b wireless networking. For
    one thing, the Linux drivers for the adapters available on the
    market today are not stable enough for us to want to ship them. For
    another, proper use of 802.11b requires some form of user interface
    to set the network ESSID and the network encryption keys, and we
    haven't had time to write this yet.

    All of the things I said about PPP support being Really and Honestly
    Unsupported So Please Don't Call Us, apply just as much to
    this Ethernet support.
  20. Look at how I did it by linuxguy · · Score: 2, Informative

    See http://cheema.com/vcr/

    I cannot release the source because I am doing some
    related stuff at work and dont want to make them
    unhappy.

  21. Re:for us non-cable people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    > As I understand it, and I could be wrong, there are effectively four varients of Tivo, possibly five.

    No, there are only two variants of Tivo.

    1) Stand-alone unit. Has an RF input and an S-Video input. The RF input can be set for VHF+UHF off-the-air channels, or unscrambled cable channels.
    The Audio/Video/S-Video input can be hooked to the output of a cable box or a satellite receiver (DirecTV, Dish, whatever). The unit can seamlessly change between the two inputs.

    2) DirecTiVo unit. Has two DSS tuners only; hooks up to DirecTV small dish. It is does not have a UHF tuner and has no Audio/Video input.

    The second generation of both variants have been released. For the most part, the only visible difference between 1st gen and 2nd gen is the size of the unit.

    There are no TiVo units with built-in cable descrambler functionality, and TiVo does not come as a Dish Network combo box.

    > though I am not the one to describe where to find one.

    You will note that on the TiVo web site
    http://tivo.com/flash.asp?page=get_series2
    it explictly says "* Works with any TV system: antenna, cable, digital cable, satellite and combination".

    http://tivo.com/jump/bestbuy_series2.asp

  22. Where to buy a ethernet card for your TiVo.. by xTK-421x · · Score: 3, Informative

    Surprised no one posted this yet...

    TurboNet Adapter $69.25

    Works with Series 1 and DirectTiVos, slips right in, then the new 3.0 will autodetect it and install the right drivers. After installation, put ",#401" as your phone number and it will use the net connection from now on.

    --
    "TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
  23. Why you DONT want to opt out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    In all honesty, if you opt out, you will no longer be providing the networks with data stating what shows you REALLY REALLY LIKE. A lot of people miss the upside of the data collected, they show what YOU LIKE TO WATCH, which in turn basically makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Sad that Babylon 5 went off the air? Maybe if enough Tivo people were around back then, and they showed enough data that the viewers really really liked the show, and watched certain commercials, they might have gotten a lot of high rolling advertisements that catered to the Tivo crowd that watched it. Tivo is not just dumbly collecting the data to spy on people, but they are using it in a lot of innovative marketing ways to make your life better. They can show companies that 300,000 people have the "Amazing Race" ranked higher on their season pass than say, "Survivor 4" so advertisers know which show to support more of. Further more, they can see what commercials people actually WATCH, or REWATCH, or PAUSE. They can figure out what people dont like to see. If they notice people are actually watching commercials with half naked chicks during a Star Trek episode, they might say "Hey, we need more naked chick commercials". Is that such a bad thing? I think not.

    There is far more to this than just stealing your viewing habits for the Evil Empire(tm) to exploit in bad ways.