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Voyager Keeps on Trucking
spagiola writes "CNN has a brief story about Voyager I continuing on past Pluto, and about the problems of keeping in touch with it as it keeps heading further away. They've activated a spare sun sensor and star tracker. I wonder: would it make sense to send out another probe after it, to relay messages to/from it?"
Although it would be an interesting experiment to extend our communications reach with relay probes, the scientific data provided by Voyager isn't worth it when the money should go to more important things like the Pluto mission. The Voyager mission is basically down to exploring the Kuiper belt and testing the length of time the back-up systems that NASA wisely installed will last. Hopefully the extreme survivability of Voyager will encourage aerospace and spacecraft engineers to use more redundancy, as the trend lately has been towards less to cut costs.
Thanks,
Travis
forkspoon@hotmail.com
It'll merge with an alien entity and be back in a couple of centuries.
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
The cost of checking in with Voyager every now and again is minimal. Far, far less than the costs of building even New Horizons, let alone another Voyager-class mission. And since Voyager is heading for the the heliopause and quite probably will get through it before it dies off or we lose contact, that will be a great scientific benefit. Right now, we don't really know where the heliopause is, exactly. To miss this chance to encounter it would be foolish, especially since our next chance wouldn't come for at least 20 more years, if we launched a mission right now.
Oh, you meant the probe... my mistake...
The Deep Space Network has some 70 meter dish antennas. Can you imagine trying to get a 35-meter dish antenna even so far as low-earth orbit, let alone on a solar-escape trajectory? Get real. I wish the editors would do a little thinking before posting.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Here is some useless information about the Voyager spacecraft...
From the article:" Voyager 1 was launched on Sept. 5, 1977 and completed flyby exploration of both Jupiter and Saturn. The spacecraft now is rising above the ecliptic plane -- the plane in which most of the planets orbit the sun -- at an angle of about 35 degrees at a rate of about 520 million kilometers (about 320 million miles) a year.
Voyager 2 was launched on Aug. 20, 1977 and also completed visits to Jupiter and Saturn and then went on to explore Uranus and Neptune, completing the reconnaissance of the giant outer planets. The spacecraft is now diving below the ecliptic plane at an angle of about 48 degrees and a rate of about 470 million kilometers (about 290 million miles) a year.
So Voyager 1 is travelling at 320,000,000 miles per year. That is about 3090 m/s or 0.0103C. Not too shabby! Voyager 2 is at 290,000,000 miles per year or 2800 m/s or 0.0093C.
I wonder what the fastest man made object is? Hmmm let's see, this page says that the Ulysses probe was the fastest at 15 km/sec. That's 15,000 m/s or 0.05C! Then this page claims the Pioneer 10 was the fastest at 51,810 km/hour. That's 14,391.67 m/s or 0.04797C. So it looks like Ulysses wins. If you can find anything else to add to the list, please do!
ASCII tastes bad dude.
Binary it is then.
Even if it were technically feasible, it'd just add another possible point of failure. Trying to fix a problem in Voyager would be interesting if everything had to be relayed, and even more interesting if the relay itself had problems. If the information Voyager gathers is really that useful, they'll find a way to keep in contact.
... especially since our next chance wouldn't come for at least 20 more years, if we launched a mission right now.
Not even. Voyager 2 used four gravity assists off of the giant planets to build up speed. Even IF we launched today, we couldn't get to Uranus or Neptune with conventional rockets. The configuration of the planets that allowed the multiple-assist grand tour of the solar system (giving the two Voyager probes more delta-V than we can with today's (or even tomorrow's) technology) only occurs once every ~180 years.
To quote a NASA mission scientist on Voyager, "the last time this was possible, Jefferson was President. And boy, did he blow it."
In Soviet Russia, sig types you!
Sounds like a perfect application for the USNA Shoestring satellite guys:
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Thanks for the info. (no sarcasm here) I was actually wondering about the article.
a rsystem/ deepspace_propulsion_000816.html
The article says:
"Voyager I was launched in 1977 to study and photograph the giant planets in the outer solar system...."
and then later says:
"A robotic twin of Voyager I left Earth in 1975 as well. Voyager II is heading in the opposite direction of Voyager I and traveling at a slightly slower speed."
That confused the hell outta me. (Why would they name it "II" if it left 2 years earlier than "I"???)
As for the fastest man-made object, Deep Space 1 would have it I believe with its ion drive (53,100 kilometers per hour):
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sol
Karma: NaN
Maybe they started building Voyager II after Voyager I, but finished Voyager II first and launched it first.
proton != antielectron
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/10/151825 3&mode=thread
that future probes consider <focus_paranoia>nuclear</focus_paranoia > reactors for long term power needs when solar panels no longer provide sufficient means?
I know they got a bad rap after a Russian satellite equipped with a nuclear reactor crashed down into Canada a few years ago, but it seems like they'd be a good idea for interstellar probes of this kind.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Of course, then any extra-terrestrial life forms (assuming they exist based on the sheer probability that they must) encountering a crashing probe on their planet would believe that the Earth had somehow attacked them, setting off a Intergalactic war the Earth is just not ready to fight yet.
Maybe we need that Star Wars Missle defense program quicker than we think.
-Ate a rotten goblin corpse and died.
It's not quite that bad. If you do a couple of gravity assists off of Earth and Venus (and you can do that no matter what year you launch) and snag Jupiter on your way out, you can get a pretty good velocity up. A big reason the Voyager alignment was so special is that they actually got to go to all 4 giant planets. If Neptune had been on the opposite side of the Sun from Jupiter, gravity assist or not, we'd have been sunk. Pioneers 10 and 11 didn't use the outer 3 giant planets, and they're doing a pretty good clip, too.
Still, you're right that we'd be short some of that Voyager delta-v! If memory serves (which is does at its own conviences, the punk), Voyagers overtook their Pioneer cousins a while ago.
If memory serves (which is does at its own conviences, the punk), Voyagers overtook their Pioneer cousins a while ago.
:)
Your memory is doing just fine
The most distant spacecraft right now is Voyager 2, followed by Voyager 1, and then the Pioneers 10 and 11 (not sure which order).
The Pioneers, of course, were just test probes to make a rough estimate of what the Voyagers could expect. Went to Jupiter and Saturn. Discovered the Jupiter-Io flux tube (which resulted in a major Voyager redesign) and proved that it was possible to get through the asteroid belt (which was a big question at the time).
Good ships, all of them!
In Soviet Russia, sig types you!
I'm just wondering can Voyager still generate enough power to communicate when it reaches the heliopause?
The speed will not matter to much since there's almost no friction at all, so even without any propulsion it would go on for a while, but there are a lot of electrical systems that consume power.
Isn't it that when you put in a rely station that the output power of the communication systems can be lowered and therefor the overall power consumtion can be lowered?
And for those who think it's a waste of money couldn't this rely station have a fixed position and also be used to rely signals for/from other probes?
The disk isn't that vunerable, mainly due to three reasons:
1. Its in a fairly clean orbit, most of the manmade space junk is in low orbits.
2. The dish is made up of a light mesh, so its mostly 'empty space', the actual 'cross section target area' is relativly small.
3. At the frequencies that this disk is listening, you don't need a solid dish, so if a passing asteroid punches a 10 foot hole through it, it will still work. (although your signal strength and 'aiming sharpness' will be slightly degraded).
-- We don't understand software, and sometimes we don't understand hardware, but we can *see* the blinking lights
A message from the voyager probe has left NASA very confused. Apparently a ship resembling a DC-8 has passed by the probe on its way to Earth.
'We are coming to get John Travolta' was the message given to the probe to relay to NASA. No other communications from the ship were received and John Travolta has been notified. Travolta was not in the least surprised and was not worried since he is CLEAR. He said he did feel sorry for the rest of the inhabitants of Earth though and hoped he could CLEAR as many people as he could before XENUs arrival.
Here is an article about voyager reaching the end of uor galaxy, the point where solar "rays" theoretically stop and interstellar space begins. http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/vgrhelio_pr.ht ml
Compare that to a very expensive, single-purpose mission. Just because something might be feasible (notice that we've never done anything of the sort before) doesn't mean that it makes any sense to try to do it.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Some day, in a museum some place, the voyager 1 probe will sit on display. (The actual one that is out there now). At some point we will have the capability to go out and actually retrieve the probe. Assuming something doesn't hit the probe and we have some means of locating it I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.
I would bet if anything is going to be picked up by other intelligent species in the galaxy (that originated from us), it is going to be Voyager I. We cannot be certain they watch the same electromagnetic frequencies we have been transmitting for the last 50+ years. We can, however, figure if someone is watching their skies like we do, they would eventually see this sucker whipping through deep-space all alone and emitting radio signals.
We should send out another one some day that sends signals in ALL directions, like a beacon. Sure, it might get us blowed up good by some bad-assed ID4 type ETs but it might also put us in contact with the Vulcan type MFs.
Just a rambling thought I guess.
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
Speed compared to what? Earth? It is moving around in circles.
I suppose the Sun could be the point of reference, but then you are not counting orbital motion, nor am I sure you should.
Table-ized A.I.
(* than send a weak one from just outside our sun. *)
Correction: that should be "just outside our solar system".
Table-ized A.I.
If you do a couple of gravity assists off of Earth and Venus (and you can do that no matter what year you launch) and snag Jupiter on your way out, you can get a pretty good velocity up.
Feh. A '68 Camaro with a blown and nitrous-assisted 454 wedged under the hood could blow the doors of your little "gravity-assisted probes". "Probes", heheh. It just sounds anal.
Sorry, i'm confused. How do you slingshot around Venus when you're going out of the solar system? Seems like that would be counter-productive unless you can manage to slingshot around the sun too, which seems pretty weird.
Simple, you come around behind it just like you do at Jupiter. Slingshotting has nothing to do with where in the solar system you are, it's just a matter of robbing momentum from the planet.
The Galileo and Cassini probes both used Venus and Earth slingshots to get to the outer solar system.