Vegas: Monorails v. Gridlock

TimeTrip writes "Vegas seems to be taking a little cue from Disney. 'Las Vegas, which never stops thinking big, has just embarked on its most ambitious, costly attempt to solve a problem that once seemed impossible to have in this sprawling desert valley: gridlock. It is building the nation's largest monorail system.'" Or maybe they'll be taking their cue from Lyle Lanly. Frankly this sounds more like a Shelbyville idea.

Comments

Obligatory

[teslatug]

The Monorail Song:
Monorail Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail! What'd I say? Ned Flanders: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: What's it called? Patty+Selma: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail! [crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically] Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud... Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud. Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend? Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend. Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs? Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs. Abe: Were you sent here by the devil? Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level. Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can. Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man. I swear it's Springfield's only choice... Throw up your hands and raise your voice! All: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: What's it called? All: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: Once again... All: Monorail! Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken... Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken! All: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! [big finish] Monorail! Homer: Mono... D'oh!

Vegas Twist

[yintercept]

Anyone who comes to work by bus, bike or commuter van at least four times a month is eligible to enter a weekly drawing that rewards 100 people with $100 each.

I love the vegas twist on mass transit. Instead of throwing your dollar into a meter, you get to toss it into a one armed bandit. I can see the lines of blue haired ladies lining up for their chance to play a role of the bus.

The glass protected stations

[Cheetah86]

Glass protected stations that protect people from walking on the track are not new. In London I remember going to an underground stop which had glass doors so you couldn't go on the track. It is a good idea to implement it in Las Vegas though.

Extending to the airport

[PhunkyOne]

It would be great if they extended it to the airport right away...this is one of my favorite features of paris or london. You don't have to mess around getting a taxi or bus into town. You grab your bag, catch the tube and away you go. This would be great for people who JUST want to gamble, and it seems there are many of those...catch the train and get to business, especially if there will be rail stations at major casinos

Personally though all I can think about is the Monorail Simpsons Episode...Doh!

Simpsons Wisecrack

[Stephen VanDahm]

Let's get this out of the way early:

SELECT *
FROM smartass_remarks
WHERE simpsons='t' AND
topic='monorail'


There.

Re:Simpsons Wisecrack

[sharkey]

Stephen VanDahm: "But Simpsons' references are old and overspoken!"
CmdrTaco: "Sorry Stephen, the trolls have spoken!"

Slashdites: Monorail!...MONORAIL!!...MONORAIL!!!
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JonKatz: "Mono-D'OH!"

"I call the big one 'Bitey'"

[phillymjs]

If Vegas gets a monorail, will we have HBO's "Monorail Confessions" to look forward to?

~Philly

Links

[axlrosen]

A few cool mockups, and some more detailed maps.

http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/LasVegas.html
http://www.lvnvmonorail.com/

Sigh...

[Silver222]

It's for the tourists, not the residents.

Seattle is working on this too...

[km790816]

The Seattle Monorail Project aims to put a monorail in downtown Seattle. It's set to be put to a vote in November, I think.

Seattle suffers from the same problem: too many damn cars. With the 2nd worst rush hour traffic in the US (behind LA) I hope they can pull it off. There have been fights with light rail folks, but I think monorail is a much better option. Keep it above grade so there is little disruption of traffic. Many claim that monorail is Mickey Mouse transit. (no thanks to certain Simpson's parodies). Keep in mind that millions use monorail daily for transportation in Japan. When the people from Seattle went over to look at Japan's system they were blown away by its efficiency and capacity. After spending time abroad, I've become very disappointed with the mass transit systems in the US (or lack there of).

We love our cars way too much.

Why this is an amazing idea

[Schlemphfer]

A bunch of posters here have wondered "why build such a thing?" Having just had the misfortune of visiting Vegas, let me say why the city is uniquely suited to benefit from a monorail.

Like no other city, Las Vegas is made up a tremendously high percentage of people who visit just for a the weekend. Tens of thousands of people fly into Vegas every week, all of whom go directly to the casinos, where they sleep in the upstairs hotel rooms. Right now, they essentially have two viable choices: cab or rental car.

Nobody wants to go through the hassle of figuring out a bus system just after flying into town. And walking that mile or so to the casinos, with luggage, in the dessert heat won't work either. A monorail dedicated to connect the airport with the strip is an incredible idea, as much as I may personally detest gambling.

Too bad

[j09824]

Too bad they are thinking "big 1960's style public transportation". A monorail system like Personal Rapid Transit would have been so much nicer. See also here.

RIP Phil

[NiftyNews]

I miss Phil Hartman. Hit my karma if you need to, but I needed to say it.

to clarify Denver's transportation situation...

[cmckay]

From the article:

Denver is extending some of its new commuter rails and a proposed monorail downtown is a subject of fervent debate.

Well, sort of. Denver is indeed expanding its Light Rail system. However, the section of track that just opened has little to do with commuters-- it passes by Mile High (our new stadium), the Pepsi Center (our new-ish arena-- go Avs!), and Elitch Gardens (the local Six Flags franchise). Basically, it's for people looking for entertainment, not working schmucks.

However, the next expansion (which will be completed in a few years, IIRC) is a link between Denver and a large suburb to the south. A benefit to commuters, but also greatly welcomed by shoppers.

Also the proposed monorail is meant to connect Denver with the ski resorts-- it isn't meant to be a "downtown monorail" as the article implies.

Mass transit is best for tourists

[Gorimek]

A lot of Americans go abroad on vacation and get blown away by how well mass transit works. Let me tell you why that is not a good way to evaluate it.

A typical European major city is built around a more or less ancient center, where all roads and transit system originate, with important extensions to the airport and rail stations. As I hope you can see, the mass transit system is working at it's very best for the typical travel patterns of a tourist, going between the main transit centers and all the tourist attractions in the center.

Now, if you were to live in a regular home and commute to a regular job in that same city, things would be very different. You'd be going from one suburb to another, probably having to change train or bus at the center. It would take at least twice as long as going by car, quite likely more. You could and would probably make arrangements so you lived where mass transit was favorable for your commute, but whenever you were going to some friend or some other random place, you'd have quite a logistical task on your hands.

And that's in a city that's always had it's transportation system built for mass transit. In an american city, built from the ground up for cars, it would work quite a bit worse.

I think I know since I moved to San Francisco from Stockholm 7 years ago. And while Stockholm has a quite decent mass transit system, and SF traffic is painfully congested, going by car here just can't compare to going by mass transit there. It's one of my bigger reasons for not moving back.

Re:Mass transit is best for tourists

[HiThere]

Mass transit always has it's problems. But mass transit is the only transportation available for some portions of the population: The elderly, the young, the handicapped, the poor. (And this patron base is some of it's problems.)

Probably the biggest of mass transit's problems is that there is already so much invested in infrastructure that's optimised for cars, that it's nearly impossible to compete. This even extends to on-going maintenance, as maintenance for the car/truck infrastructure is generally not considered as part of the cost, where in transit it gets included at the time of ticket purchase.

Both sides always have heavy hidden subsidies, and supporters of each side always point out that the other side is subsidized. But the only part of the payment that is counted for the car is the part included in the cost of the gas, where for transit you are reminded each time you ride.

Add to this that mass transit inherently takes longer. With a car, you can assume that it is immediately available at need, and that you will go to your destination directly via the most direct route. With transit you must get to the stop before the scheduled time. Wait. Get on. Pay. Travel an indirect route (which translates into more time delay). Walk from the destination stop to the true destination.

This assumes that the car will be able to park. But even counting that, the car is almost guaranteed to be faster. Also, during the trip the driver has his attention engaged, so is less likely to be bored. And doesn't need to associate with strangers of unknown disposition.

It's not really surprising that people prefer cars. At all. But the social costs of cars are much higher than those of mass transit. And the energy efficiency is much lower. So people keep trying to come up with some way that will work. Areas that have strong transportation corridors have more success than those that don't, for the reasons that you indicated. Thus in San Francisco, the Bay, and the congestion that the bridges causes during the commute have combined to make BART (and before that AC Transit and the Key System) reasonably successful. But the real thing that makes it successful is that San Francisco has essentially no parking. There are literally more cars in San Francisco than there are parking spaces. And that's at night.

And even with those advantages, BART has troubles. The basic problem is that which one should expect from a monopoly: It's relatively unresponsive to the patrons. Escalators are frequently down for months while being repaired, e.g. It's not that the people don't try to do their job. It's just that when they evaluate the relative costs and rewards for any particular action, the costs of upsetting patrons are considered less important than something else (e.g., finishing that report that the head office wants to send to the federal government). In their position, it's a quite reasonable assessment. But it does lead to patrons that are ... unhappy. Which eventually has repercussions (they find an alternate form of transportation. But eventually is delayed long enough that it's quite hard to determine the connection between the action and the result.

E.g.: AC Transit looses money when it runs busses late at night, as there are few patrons. So it cuts late service. This means that people who need to depend on transportation in the late hours find some other way to travel. Usually this means that they get a car, pay insurance, etc. Now that all of these costs are sunk, they frequently decide that they don't need AC during the day either. So these riders are lost. But this doesn't happen immediately. Now the next time a bond for transit vote comes up, will these peopel vote for it? Not likely! They will likely be quite angry. So the budget shrinks. And shrinks more, since the local funds can no longer be used to meet "matching funds" programs from the feds. So the service gets worse. To improve things, they reorganize the routes. This means that for some people, lines that had been marginally acceptable are now unacceptable. So they switch away.

Do people ever switch back? Well, if their car is in the shop, they may try the bus. But it is (as mentioned above) almost guaranteed to be more inconvenient than their car. So they don't stay.

Who uses transit? People who don't have cars, for one reason or another (I don't drive). People who can't afford to own a car. People who are headed for an area where you really can't park. Any others? Probably, as this is just off the top of my head. Some commuters find transit as convenient as sitting parked on the freeway. It depends on where they live, where the transit lines are, and where they are headed. (But these are people who can easily be lost if transit lines shift -- as they do.)

I don't see a general answer. But in the special case of Los Vegas ... it might be possible to design a monorail that would suit their needs quite well. Stops inside the top floors of hotels? And at the airport, the bus station, and the railroad station. Special provision for baggage transfer? Commuters may not be their target market.