Slashdot Mirror


Nike Denied First Amendment Defense

Several people have written in about an interesting decision handed down by the California Supreme Court. Nike, which has been repeatedly criticized for sweatshop practices in its contractors' factories, has made a variety of statements to the press contradicting these allegations (although in general, third-party examinations find them to be substantiated). A lawsuit was filed, charging the company with deceptive advertising under California law, and Nike was accused of trying to greenwash its image. Nike claimed that the First Amendment prevented it from being sued for these statements. The first courts to look at the case agreed with Nike; the California Supreme Court agreed with the plaintiffs and allowed the suit to proceed. (See also Nike's press release.) There are all sorts of interesting issues raised concerning corporate and commercial speech, the protection it has/ought to have, etc. There's a law.com article that goes a little more into the legal issues.

26 of 371 comments (clear)

  1. Fraud is Illegal by ari_j · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are certain types of speech specifically exempted from First Amendment protection by the courts. Libel, slander, and corporate fraud are among these.

  2. SEC filings by Sabalon · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can just see it now. Our filings on our third quarter profit, while exagerated 300% is protected by the 1st ammendment.

  3. Beginning of the end? by 1010011010 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe this heralds the beginning of the end of Constitutional Rights for Legal Fictions -- that whole Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company / 14th Amendment debacle.

    (Historical Information)

    --
    Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
  4. Can you say "double standard"? by phillymjs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, let's see... when Nike misrepresents itself to the public about how it really abuses human rights according to its own internal audit, they say that that's just them exercising free speech.

    But just try to exercise your constitutional right of free speech by creating a website critical of Nike (or most other megacorporations, these days), and their lawyers will try and in most cases succeed at crushing you, leaving nothing but a smoking crater in their wake.

    I guess in addition to yelling "Fire!" in a theater full of people, it's also wrong to yell "Sweatshop!" in a factory in Thailand full of orphans sewing the "Swoosh" on shitty sneakers at midnight. :-)

    On the plus side, at least I don't have to change my spending habits-- since I prefer plain, black sneakers and Nike only sells shoes that, if they were cars, would have been driven by pimps in the 70's.

    ~Philly

    1. Re:Can you say "double standard"? by Suppafly · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here, here. I prefer Converse tennis shoes ("Chuck Taylors")

      which are also made in sweatshops in china now.

  5. more Evil than MS? by WildBeast · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, apparently we found a company that's more Evil than MS/Sun/AOL combined :)

    Unfortunately, I don't believe that it's up to the court to decide. I think, consumers, should boycott Nike products.

    1. Re:more Evil than MS? by error0x100 · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, the big tobacco companies have had all of them beat for a long time now. Their products directly kill people.

      They've been trying for years to claim that there is no evidence that smoking causes diseases such as lung cancer, bringing in their own paid "scientists" into "debates" in an attempt to legitimize their "viewpoint". Now I suppose we're going to start hearing that they should be allowed to make such claims as a free speech issue.

      I remember when internal documents of a tobacco company were brought up in court stating that their primary market to advertise to to get new recruits was the "13 to 25" age group. Their defence? "Its a typo". Riiight. (Studies have shown that if you haven't started smoking by age 20, you're pretty much never going to start smoking).

      Philip Morris ("Phillip"?) recently published a report on the "indirect positive economic effects of early death". Thats sickening.

  6. Am I the only person who thinks this is normal by JonK · · Score: 5, Informative

    Maybe I'm misreading something but as far as I could tell from the articles linked, Nike got slapped down for issuing advertising which was untrue. Well, d'oh.

    In Britain, at least, the Advertising Standards Authority exists to ensure, among other things, that advertisments are truthful: surely this is a basic requirement - otherwise we end up with "Smoke Ciggies - They're Good For You". I fail to see how the First Amendment should guarantee a corporation's right to lie to the public in its advertising - this seems to be even more of a perversion of First Amendment rights than most.

    So, is there something I'm missing, or was Nike's case really "We can say what we like with no respect to truth because the First guarantees our right to lie to Joe Public"? If so, then they should have been slapped down, and hard.

    --
    Cheers

    Jon
  7. Out of touch judges by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Insightful
    One of the judges that wanted Nike to win said,
    "Nike's speech, in an attempt to influence public opinion on economic globalization and international labor rights and working conditions, gave the public insight and perspective into the debate. This speech should be fully protected as 'essential to free government.'"
    Let me get this straight, Nike issues statements denying it runs sweatshops because it wants to contribute to some kind of public debate!? Nike's one and only consideration is maximizing profits, nothing more. The judges were right, it's commercial speech.
    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  8. Why do corps have freedom of speech at all? by rkent · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "What this decision means," she added, "is that one side of the debate gets full free speech protection, but a corporation trying to defend itself is subject to strict liability."

    Well, good. That's an "inbalance" I can live with. Remember, the topic here is whether or not people are being subjected to sweatshop conditions at Nike factories (or contracted facilities) overseas. Whether you think this is wrong or "it's better than whatever else they'd be doing," I think you're at least entitled to hear the truth about how frequent and how severe it is. Making a corporation responsible to tell the truth in that situation seems like a great idea.

    To me, the whole problem starts with "Santa Clara vs. Southern Pacific Railroad," in which the (US) Supreme Court ruled that a corporation is a natural person for the purposes of constitutional rights protections. Which I think is a crock. A corporation shouldn't be entitled to free speech under Article I because it's not a person. It's a legal abstraction.

    That said, I don't necessarily think that there should be severe limits on "corporate speech," but to protect them with the same constitutional power as a person creating an artwork or making a politcal protest... please. All corporate speech should be considered commercial speech and should be required, if nothing else, to be true.

    1. Re:Why do corps have freedom of speech at all? by mattdm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Isn't a corporation just a collection of individuals, no matter how much the Left tries to depersonalize things?

      Um, no, it has nothing to do with "the Left".
      As it stands, a *corporation* does in fact have the legal rights of a human being. Read the message you're replying to. Meanwhile, individuals in the corporation are shielded from personal responsibility for the corporation's actions. If a corporation where indeed legally treated as a collection of individuals, the situation would be totally different -- and probably much better. But it's not, thanks to, I'm going to have to say, "the Right".

  9. ACLU On Nike's Side? by UberOogie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Nike's position was strongly supported by the ACLU, which joined Nike in opposing this case on the basis that it violated the First Amendment.

    I don't always agree with the ACLU's choice of clients or their politics, but I understand their absolute need to be there to defend people and personages that the general public wouldn't defend, but since WHEN do corporations have the right to free speech, especially deceptive speech?

    The ACLU is absolutely, unflinchingly wrong in this case.

    --
    "Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
  10. Good quote by interiot · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • "Full free speech protection for one side and strict liability for the other will hardly promote vigorous and meaningful debate."

    Exactly. When Nike said those things, they weren't directly describing a product they were selling. It was more of a debate.

    One could argue that such things may be black and white, so no debate is needed. But such issues never are. Sometimes issues can't be reduced to a simple one sentance soundbite. We've all seen news articles where a quote is taken out of context, allowing it mean sometime more sinister than the situation actually is, even though the brief statement may be literally true. In these cases, the accused should be able to elaborate on some of the details.

    However, if this ruling stands, special interest groups will be able to express any complaint they wish, and corporations will be more likely to just say "we can't confirm or deny that accusation" no matter how truthful or baseless the accusation is. This will make corporate secrecy even worse.

  11. Nike: The Great Defenders of the First Amendment? by pherris · · Score: 5, Informative

    Any remember Jonah Peretti? He was the guy who tried to get Nike to print "sweatshop" on his new Nike ID sneakers. When they said no he tried to get: Sweat Shop, Child Labor, ChildLabor, Exploit and Swetshop.

    Nike respects the first amendment like Enron respects their employees.

    pherris

    Check out:
    http://www.shey.net/niked.html
    http://www.s alon.com/people/cheapshots/2001/02/08/ artsfund/index2.html
    http://www.villagevoice.com/ issues/0107/jockbeat.p hp

    --
    "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  12. Re:Lying by Cryogenes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like other human rights, free speech is for people. There is no point in extending this right to corporations in general.

    In particular, companies should not be allowed to lie.

  13. Other corporate rights by IntelliTubbie · · Score: 5, Insightful
    To me, the whole problem starts with "Santa Clara vs. Southern Pacific Railroad," in which the (US) Supreme Court ruled that a corporation is a natural person for the purposes of constitutional rights protections. Which I think is a crock. A corporation shouldn't be entitled to free speech under Article I because it's not a person. It's a legal abstraction.

    Then I suppose you think corporations (including non-profit corporations, of course) should be denied:
    • the right to be free of religious persecution -- the government can freely discriminate against Jewish, or Muslim, or atheist corporations (1st amendment).
    • the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure -- Uncle Sam can just walk into your small business without a warrant and take your stuff. (4th amendment)
    • the right to due process (5th) and speedy and public jury trials for criminal offenses (6th) -- the government can shut your business down without reason and without telling you what you've been charged with, and give you a secret trial or delay the trial indefinitely.

    It's easy to bash corporations (and good for a few karma points), but try to imagine a free society where the above situations are possible. Imagine what would happen not just to our economy, but to our society -- many charities and universities are non-profit corporations -- if these rights didn't exist.

    Remember, the Bill of Rights doesn't "give" rights to anyone -- it only prevents the government from taking them away.

    Cheers,
    IT
    --

    Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

    1. Re:Other corporate rights by Hard_Code · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "the right to be free of religious persecution"

      Corporations have religions?

      "the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure -- Uncle Sam can just walk into your small business without a warrant and take your stuff. (4th amendment)"

      Correct...they don't have the *RIGHT* to be free from unreasonable search and seizure because they are not *PERSONS*. Now sure, they can have a reasonable *expectation* to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, but since corporations are (supposedly) beholden to the public who gave them their charter, their privelages, and their responsibilities - then YES the public should be able to execute inquiries into a corporations behavior at any time. Of course this DOESN'T happen all the time because just because we can do it, doesn't mean we have to be jerks and do it. Most of the time there is no reason to.

      "the right to due process (5th) and speedy and public jury trials for criminal offenses (6th)"

      Yeah, that sucks doesn't it? Poor poor legal abstraction, let me weep for thee. On the other hand, large corporations have the money to tie the courts up forever, often to the point that the public just gives up.

      "imagine a free society where the above situations are possible."

      Gladly.

      "many charities and universities are non-profit corporations"

      Uh, I'd be *highly* suspect of a "non-profit charity" whatever the hell that is. And for what it is worth, YES, I think universities should be open to public inspection and critique.

      Other corporate rights (Score:2)
      by IntelliTubbie on 01:01 PM May 4th, 2002 (#3462838)
      (User #29947 Info)
      To me, the whole problem starts with "Santa Clara vs. Southern Pacific Railroad," in which the (US) Supreme Court ruled that a corporation is a natural person for the purposes of constitutional rights protections. Which I think is a crock. A corporation shouldn't be entitled to free speech under Article I because it's not a person. It's a legal abstraction.

      Then I suppose you think corporations (including non-profit corporations, of course) should be denied:

      the right to be free of religious persecution -- the government can freely discriminate against Jewish, or Muslim, or atheist corporations (1st amendment).

      the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure -- Uncle Sam can just walk into your small business without a warrant and take your stuff. (4th amendment)

      the right to due process (5th) and speedy and public jury trials for criminal offenses (6th) -- the government can shut your business down without reason and without telling you what you've been charged with, and give you a secret trial or delay the trial indefinitely.

      It's easy to bash corporations (and good for a few karma points), but try to imagine a free society where the above situations are possible. Imagine what would happen not just to our economy, but to our society -- many charities and universities are non-profit corporations -- if these rights didn't exist.

      "Remember, the Bill of Rights doesn't "give" rights to anyone -- it only prevents the government from taking them away."

      Fine, then corporations can simply give up the benefits of being a corporation (we certainly wouldn't want to impose by *giving them* any special privelages). Corporations can just dis-incorporate, give up any special privelages that were granted to them, and revel in their freedom!

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    2. Re:Other corporate rights by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 4, Insightful
      In all of these examples, why do you act as if it is a natural right to be able to disclaim any personal responsibility for what you do?

      Sole proprietorships, partnerships, are all liable. It is only the incorporated company that gets to disclaim personal responsibility.

      I have NO problem with the IRS walking into a corporation's premises and taking stuff, if they feel a need to- without any sort of legal process.

      Because the corporation itself is an end-run around legal process, allowing people to conduct business without any trace of responsibility.

      Now, if you have Uncle Sam walking into a sole proprietorship and taking stuff, when the sole proprietorship means a person IS LIABLE for the acts of the business and NOT exempt from this, well, then I have a problem, and I see your point.

      Since a corporation gets to completely shrug off legal liability why should they get the privacy, property, speech rights of entities (people) which ARE liable?

  14. Re: OT: sig issue by Chiasmus_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess in a book called "Politics", it makes sense that Aristotle plays both sides of the fence

    Aristotle's stance is consistent; it merely doesn't hug one of the extremes.

    One problem today in American politics is that a politician is expected to take an extreme stance, and stick to it, like "Abortions for all!" or "No abortions for anyone!" In my mind, the very fact that both extreme stances exist and conflict is essentially proof that neither one in and of itself is correct.

    Aristotle is right on both counts; 1) there needs to be a way for laws to adapt when conditions render them obselete; and 2) there needs to be a system set up so that laws can't be changed based on the whims of the moment.

    I think the U.S. actually follows these guidelines pretty well; it takes so many votes to amend the constitution that we've really only done it a handful of times. Amendments like the "flag-burning amendment" or "abortion amendment" or "health insurance admendment" have been thought too frivolous to really have to go that deeply into our legal system. Really, with the exception of prohibition, most of the amendments have been absolutely necessary as times changed. Women's sufferage isn't something that should come and go as the national mood changes, but it is certainly something that needed to be implemented when various technologies drastically changed the role of the woman in society.

    --
    "Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
  15. Disastrous boilerplate PR by hysterion · · Score: 5, Interesting
    "We believe significant progress has been made in our contract factories and that workers in those factories are better off today than they were in 1998 when this case was filed. (...) Nike's commitment to the continuous improvement of working conditions in our partner factories and rigorous implementation of all our corporate responsibility initiatives remains unchanged."
    Look! You thought you made us change, but not at all! Our commitment to change is unchanged !
    • Nike forbids child labor (...) meeting or in some cases, exceeding certain U.S. and international labor standards.
    Look! We're meeting certain international standards!
    • Nike pushed the envelope of corporate transparency by placing user-friendly information on it's Web site, www.nikebiz.com
    Look! We can't spell, either!
    • Nike belongs to the Fair Labor Association, a White House inspired organization to monitor and set policies for companies manufacturing in developing countries.
    Look! Our inspiration comes from the place that would never put commercial interests before social, human or environmental rights: the White House !!!
    Brown, in a separate dissent, said the majority's decision fails "to account for the realities of the modern world--a world in which personal, political and commercial arenas no longer have sharply defined boundaries."
    Hmmm... Maybe the majority would rather influence this "modern" world, than just describe it?
  16. Not Fraud! Happy Thoughts! by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 4, Funny

    .. Lets not be too harsh on Nike, I mean they just want to spread happy thoughts right? But If you're really concerned about footwear guilt, why not try Bliss Shoes?.. Because Ignorance is Bliss.

    Quote: Just like many low cost 'no-brand' shoes, Bliss Shoes are made by brown people in strange dirty countries. But unlike low cost shoes, ours go through a de-guilting process during the label affixing and packing stages.

  17. Re:Nike SHOULD have the same right... by dhogaza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, it's not shutting them up at all. The ruling merely says that the suit attempting to prove that Nike's ads are false and misleading can go forward.

    Nike was trying to preemptively strike down the suit before the substantial issues in the case could be heard.

    They're free to continue running the ads.

    Let me guess - YANAL, right?

  18. Alternatives to sweatshops: by Dominic_Mazzoni · · Score: 4, Informative

    If anyone is interested in purchasing clothes that weren't made in sweatshops, you have to check out SweatX.net. Right now they're only selling bulk orders (i.e. 144 or more T-shirts with your logo on them) but they hope to sell to the general public soon.

    They make all of their garments in Los Angeles, and their workers get paid a living wage, work in comfortable conditions, and have a say in how their company is run.

    As far as sweatshop-free athletic shoes, the least of many evils appears to be New Balance - most of their labor is American, they don't spend any money on product endorsements, and they're committed to product quality. Note that they're privately held, not a publicly traded company, which helps to explain why they don't feel pressured to compromise their ideals in exchange for higher profits.

    I'd love to hear about other examples of alternatives to sweatshops if anyone knows of them.

  19. Re:Nike SHOULD have the same right... by darkonc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This is really very much like a libel or slander case. The company is speaking about a specific party (themselves) with speech that is likely to cause injury to someone (the public).Although the parties affected by the 'libel' are unusual, I think that it's quite reasonable to apply the legal principles around libel to a case such as this.

    If Nike had won this case, it would meant that corporations would be able to lie through their teeth with impunity.

    The court made a distinction:

    When talking about general public policy issues, Nike has the right to say whatever they want with full first amendment protections.

    When speaking about NIKE policy issues, they have to be truthful.

    This is not an onerous or unreasonable demand: Nike has a unique ability to know definitively what their own policy and aproaches are, and -- for the most part -- the public generally has to accept what they say as the truth because it's usually rather difficult to do the work it takes to independently investigate the truth of such statements.

    If what a company is doing is nasty, underhanded and disgusting, they may also be uniquely motivated to lie about what they're doing.

    This also doesn't specially bind the company in the debate:
    If I knowingly lie about what the company is doing, then I'm subject to a Libel suit (even if I'm not lieing, I could be subject to a SLAPP suit). Similarly, if the company knowingly lies about what they're doing, then they should be subject to a libel suit (or something equivalent to it). This rulling essentially says that they are.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  20. If they're not people, they can't.... by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the right to be free of religious persecution

    People have religions. Corporations, not being people, can't have religions. You might as well talk about corporations wearing blue jeans. The people who own corporations, on the other hand, as well as the employees of those people, may have religions, and discriminating on the basis of the religions of any of those people would remain illegal.

    the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure

    The people who own the corporations have those rights, so the corporations don't need psuedo-human status to gain those rights. My car doesn't need its own status as a "people" to be free from search and seizure.

    the right to due process (5th) and speedy and public jury trials for criminal offenses (6th)

    People have due process. The officers of the corporation are people, and are responsible for the actions of the corporation that they own and control (just as I'm responsible for the actions of the car that I drive). I mean, it might be nice if my car (not me) got sued after an accident, but it doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make any sense in the case of corporations either.

    Giving corporations the legal status of property makes far more sense than calling them "people", and doesn't take any rights away from any real person anywhere.

  21. Re:here's the deal by catfood · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Nike claims that it is doing sweatshop workers a service because the workers get paid a higher salary than they would get otherwise if they were working in farming. For the most part this is true. The $100/month that Indonesian workers get paid is more than the median national income.

    I can't speak directly on the specifics of Nike's facilities and those of its contractors. In general, however, these statistics can be extremely misleading. Yes, the sweatshops tend to pay much more in cash than their workers might make on the farm or in their old villages. But their workers may have to move to a larger (more expensive) town to work there, or they might be required to buy uniforms or tools at prices set by the company, that sort of thing.

    More importantly, it's sometimes the case--again speaking very vaguely because I don't know much about this particular company--that the big business interests in poorer countries use illegal (or legal but unethical) means to remove farmers and craftspeople from their farms and villages, where they had lived in a barter or subsistence economy with very little cash.

    For example, a young woman in Country X might be earning in the factory ten times the cash she used to make selling eggs from her family's half-dozen chickens; but back home she had nearly free rent, was able to make her own clothes, and had Grandmother nearby to watch the kids. She might have been poor by our standards on the farm but would have had a reasonably stable life, some control, a family network, and the ability to fall back on neighbors and friends when things went wrong.

    In the factory, her schedule is dictated, the bosses don't know her or care to, even talking to your fellow workers is punished, and everything costs money. She might not have come there in a truly voluntary way. Perhaps the contractor bought all the local farms from the previous landlord and jacked up the rent just to get cheap labor in the factories. Maybe the government radically increased taxes on small farmers to get the same result. Or, in some countries, she may have been just ordered off the farm by corrupt police or government officials.

    I believe that comparing dollars-per-day is dangerously misleading if it's done by the standards of the modern western middle class. Of course you and I know that making ten times as much money per hour is "better." But we're used to paying money for everything, and we don't mind it because of the nice effects of the division of labor that allows. Our job mobility, communication resources, and general ability to control our own lives mean we can hold employers accountable, even in a slow economy. It's not always like that for overseas sweatshop workers--they're far more likely to be evicted from their old villages, and left to work in the factories or starve, than to have freely made a choice to come to the big city for a factory job.

    Sure, it may not be as grim all of the time as I'm making it sound. I'm mainly just objecting to the facile proposition that the higher cash wages from the sweatshop system are incompatible with exploitation.