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Red Hat Takes Aim at SuSE, Mandrake
gowen writes "The gloves have come off in the competition between commercial linux distributions. The Register is reporting that Red Hat is offering a $10 rebate to people who upgrade to Red Hat 7.3, including those who previously used Mandrake and SuSE. Previous users of Windows are not eligible for a rebate."
The whole point (usually) of offering competitive upgrades is to get someone to switch to your product, but in this case, I think it would be better to make that offer to Windows users (e.g., send in your authorized Windows media and key with a purchase of Red Hat Linux and we'll pay you the cost of the Microsoft tax) than it does to compete with other Linux vendors. This kind of internecine fighting is what let Micrsoft get a foot in the door on UNIX to begin with. The last thing we need is fragmentation and infighting in the Linux space.
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The fact that there are so many different flavors of linux has its pros and cons which we all know about. But why are they competing against each other? The open source community should be one group of like minded people fighting to make open source a viable alternative to closed source, and making it recognized as such to a large number of people. RedHat should try letting people upgrade from windows to RedHat for free. People who are already using Mandrake or SuSe know what RedHat is like and choose their current distro for reasons such as better hardware compatability, better packages, etc. They aren't going to switch to RedHat. I switched out of RedHat to Mandrake. And I'm planning on trying out SuSe.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
all you people complain about competition with MS (and yes, I agree with you on that) but then you turn around and you hurang RH for competeing!!
you have got to be consistent here, what does competition do? it puts weaker companies out of business and lets the creme rise to the top. one good thing about the Linux world is that there will always be competition as the GPL provides everyone with the same code and a lock out is impossable.
there is nothing wrong with what RH is doing.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
> What is more important to them - encouraging Windows users to "upgrade" to RedHat or taking existing customers away from other distributors
Neither. They're in business to make money selling an OS based on an open source kernel. They need as many customers as they can get. Apparently they think it's easier to get people already using Linux to switch to RedHat than to get Microsoft windows users to switch. I think that makes sense. It's not unethical, certainly not compared to some of the tricks other companies in this business use (think Microsoft, Larry Ellison).
Part of what you pay for when you buy a Redhat box is installation support. Users of other distros are less likely to make use of that support as they are already at least somewhat knowledgable about Linux, thus it's less costly for Redhat to provide to those users.
People migrating from Windows would be more likely to use that support.
(For what it's worth I'm a Mandrake user. I got my Mandrake CD from a local cheap CD burner, donated some money to Mandrake online and purchased Ximian Red Carpet premium service and I'm happy with all of it. I just see cost related reasons why Redhat would do this for people owning Linux and not Windows).
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Stealing customers? Underhanded business practices? WTF?!
People. Red Hat is in business to make money. That's it. Nothing more. If you really think any of the commercial Linux distros have their top priority at promoting open source you are crazy.
My guess is that people aren't jumping from Windows to Linux as well as people had hoped. So, in that case, how do you expand your market share? Easy. You get more people on your distro than other distros. Makes sense to me. Then once you get them on your distro hopefully they'll keep buying YOUR upgrades. Competitive upgrades have been around a LONG time. I think it's a smart move for Red Hat to do this.
Bills have to get paid. Employees have to eat. That's the way things work.
Or you download the RedHat ISOs and not pay anyone but the media manufacturer? I think that might be the 'cheapest' way if all you are considering is money.
What?
I would guess that what is most important to them is still being around in five years time.
RedHat has repeatedly stated that most of their business comes from replacing other forms of *NIX, NOT Windows. This is entirely in keeping with that idea. In the short term the biggest threat to RedHat is not MS but other distributions because they are the people competing in *exactly* the same arena. This looks to me like an open source business behaving like a business, good news for the commercial future of Linux.
L
Go Mandrake today!
Any which distro do you think Mandrake is based on? Are you not slightly worried that if RH goes down, then a lot of the development work that made mandrake what it is today, will also cease - therefore there will be less of the cool advances that RH made?
Anyway, if the company goes down, their software won't it's open and free. You can still install an up-to-date Kernel, a new version of Gnome or KDE, and whatever else you like on it. It's not like what would happen if MS stopped producing Windows updates.
Follow me
Well, that could be. If a company starts offering advantages to customers to switch, and these advantages have nothing to do with the quality of the product or service offered, such as cash rebates, they abdicate themselves a certain moral high ground. In my opinion anyways, uneducated as that may be.
But what do I know!
I won't use Redhat, or for that matter any linux distribution based in the US. It doesn't matter if they are good (and Redhat is) or if they offer me a rebate, or even a free boxed set.
The reason I won't is that I don't trust people like the senator from Disney (Hollings). I think there is a real chance that oss will be outlawed or at least restricted in nasty ways in the US in the next five years.
Even by slashdots low standards, this post reaches a new low in, twisted illogical reasoning. Disney and Microsoft are bad so you're going to punish Red Hat???? What if we extend your analogy a little? "I'm not going to have anything to do with Black people or Jews because with the recent wave of synagogue bombings, political gains by fascists, and anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe, there is a strong chance they may be outlawed or restricted in nasty ways in the next five years. So I'm going to stick to White Christians until European lawmakers get their shit together." Does that make any sense?
If the political situation in the US is your concern, you should be buying Red Hat (and other US open source companies) products by the truckload so they have the resources to fight back.
Have done this a couple of times and it took me less than 15 min to upgarde.
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
(Warning: the following information eventually devolves into a rant!)
:)
If anything, this only validates what many Mandrake and Suse users already knew - these two products are getting incredibly easy to use, even for the "newbies". Yes, Redhat may have a larger commercial share, but that seems to be more in the corporate world, at least from what I have seen.
Personally, I like Mandrake, which makes it very easy to show Linux to someone who is Windows-trained without scaring them too much (grin). Sure, they're not REAL Linux users, according to some, but frankly, thats not the point. I usually get non-geek friends to at least TRY Linux, and the more people that retain a good impression of it, the better! Imagine when NON geeks have a conversation like this:
Non-geek 1: Wow, I just got ANOTHER Outlook/IE/VB Script virus! I hate this crap!
Non-geek 2: Hey, that sucks for you! I'm using KMail on Mandrake Linux that a friend installed for me, that stuff doesn't even hit me!
Non-geek 1: Yeah, but you can't use your windows stuff anymore!
Non-geek 2: Sure I can - I can do something called "dual-boot" so I can use Windows or Linux -
I don't have to give up Windows just to try it!
Etc, etc. If Mandrake, Redhat, and Suse users care about getting more people into Linux, I think we should concentrate on pushing the dual boot issue, and "interoperability", the main reason being that the more "user-friendly" (and yes, I hate that term too) we can make a Linux Desktop, the longer they will stay in the Linux Desktop (besides, sooner or later, they'll need the space Windows is taking up for MP3s, Files, etc
The Red Hat rebate is a nice feather in the cap of Mandrake and Suse, but I think they should have been giving it for WINDOWS users, not as an upgrade, but as a "Use us too!" kind of thing.
It's the Chewbacca Defence! It makes no sense!
Everone who has ever owned a computer and his brother have a Windows license. A competitive upgrade from Windows makes no sense. The base price already includes a competitive upgrade from Windows. Perhaps a competitive upgrade from OTHER versions of Unix might make more sense. RedHat REALLY competes with other versions of Unix, whereas people WISH it competed with Windows.
But I think your idea is slightly different - the "competitive" part means you only get $$ if you give up a copy of Windows.
Hellooooo Chewbacca!
First, Linux is not ready to completely 100% replace Windows for most people. The few who can switch probably have already. End gain: nada. But wait, there's more! Where does RedHat get the money to pay everyone's Windows tax? Hmmm... let's see:
1) Get the money from Venture Capitalists
Ya! RedHat gives everyone their Windows tax back, and then makes the money back on advertising! I'm sure the VC's will back it!
2) Subtract it from the cost of a RedHat distribution
Right-O. RedHat is already losing money selling CD's and support, how about losing even MORE money? And since CD's and support are money-losing ventures, they can make the money of off advertising. Yay!
3) Get the Money from Microsoft
This idea makes the most sense. Since Microsoft is already collecting the "Windows Tax", of course they'll have the money to give the Windows Tax back to people! I'll write my letter to Steve Ballmer today!
Part of what you pay for when you buy Red Hat installation support. People who already own a Linux distro are unlikely to need it so it seems reasonable to pass some of that saving back to them.
Windows users on the other hand are more likely to use that support.
It seems to me that Redhat aren't targetting other distros so much as passing some savings on to those who already know Linux to some extent and therefore will be less of a drain on Redhat Support.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
It wasn't a beta, it was a fork. Forking is what you do when the maintainer drops the ball. HTH,
Exactly how far are you willing to carry your Puritanical software elitism? If you want to remain consistent you'd better stop using all GNU software from the Free Software Foundation since its based in Boston, MA USA. I wonder if you are you willing to go that far? If so then you won't be using any major Linux distribution. As others have pointed out its amusing that the distro you advocate (Mandrake) had its beginnings as a tweaked version of RH.
There are other forces at work in the American legislative branches other than those of Hollin's ilk like Rep. Boucher who champions the public domain and fair use rights. Please try to remember that (like all other news stories) the press is only giving you a distorted sensationalized view of events that are taking place in other countries.
G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
I guess everyone has different tastes, otherwise there would only be one distro out there. Personally I've bought SuSE twice, and absolutely hated it (I bought it the second time as I thought it must have improved and I like to show a bit of support for the Linux distro makers).
/var/log/messages was growing by the second due to module/USB and other problems with the laptop it was on. Memory usage was ridiculous, thrashing the swap file when idle. Using Yast2, well, I don't know how I managed to resist the urge to throw the laptop out of the window waiting *minutes* for it to update simple network settings. I'd always used RH before and after the SuSE episodes, and I'll never use another SuSE distro, or have it anywhere near any machines I administer. Sure, the problems probably could have been solved with a few days work, but RH installed and worked great on the same hardware out of the box. No waiting around for Yast, no swap thrashing or any of the other multitude of problems.
Anyway, the last time (can't remember the version, but it was the end of last year), it installed easily enough, but
Maybe it was just me, but I like to think I'm pretty handy with a command prompt and know my way around a *nix box and that was the worst experience of my dot.life. I've always used KDE as my desktop with RH, VERY rarely using Gnome, so people claiming RH is Gnome-centric are just plain wrong...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Except for the part where my entire Suse system would freeze any time it even tried to talk with my modem. I'm talking reset-button freeze.
Yes, it is a hardware modem and Red Hat (barring an odd, non-fatal quirk) has worked with it since 6.1.
Bottom line (often overlooked): different people, different needs, different distros.
The one that is best is the one that does what you need it to.
-r
(apparently I previewed this comment last night at 8:00pm: 'by r_barchetta on Thursday May 09, @08:00PM')
Just because something is free does not mean you have to take it.
I do not see anything wrong with this. What notion of reality is everyone subscribing to wherein a rebate is a bad thing?
This is not stealing customers, sorry. It is giving a rebate for an upgrade which, as someone else pointed out, is probably due to the savings in technical support by non-newbie customers.
Second, I own RedHat 7.2, now I own RedHat 7.3. I get $10 back. Thanks, RedHat. If they did not give a rebate you would complain it cost too much.
Next, someone complained about ripping up your manual - it is your old manual they want the cover of. Read the directions - "eligable product's manual" and the eligable product is from the list, i.e. old verions of RedHat or SuSE or Mandrake.
Now, RedHat is a business and you just bought a box with paper and CDs in it. Not a religion or a political agenda. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. I got $10 bucks - yay! If you buy RedHat, you can get $10 bucks back, too. Or not. Have fun.
Finally, the real complaint is why does this version not have the free stickers of previous editions!@!?
There goes my karma...:)