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Microsoft vs. Northwest Schools Part II
sharkey writes "Simple End User Linux (SEUL) has an article about their visit to the ACPE 2002 conference. Microsoft's visit to the conference is outlined, as well as the school districts' attitude towards GPL software and migration issues. An interesting follow-up to an earlier Slashdot article."
Seems to me that they might be open to Open Source as well. Especially since people get confused and mistake Seattle, the Emerald City of truth and light, for Redmond, where the Dark Lord dwells ... ok, so he's really in an adjacent place, but it's still across the giant Lake Washington that's bigger than Seattle is.
There are some firms, Adobe for example, which are more than helpful in donating software and helping with tech problems - they have done a lot for B.F. Day public school in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle where they're located. Microsoft seems to go between extremes - sometimes they're helpful, other times they're harmful.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I think it can be easily determined that what is meant is that no one is worried about kids being able to use the software. Kids are much more adaptable to new technology than adults are, they're just not set in their ways yet. Its always been that way. A lot of teachers(and adults) struggle with OSes that have been around a long time, and fear having to learn something new on the computer because they just don't think they can do it.
As a high school technology teacher, I'm probably more incensed over the way M$ is trying to blackmail the education system than those who aren't involved in education, as I see first-hand the struggles involved with trying to integrate very inflexible software into the education system. But I'm also a taxpayer in the school district I teach in, and it makes me angry that our school district has also chosen to be a whore to the M$ brothel.
There's a related article over at The Register which exposes yet another nefarious plan by M$ to fleece the public: They are proposing licenses on a per computer or per FTE basis, without regard to whether computer or person runs, installs, or is in any way associated with M$.
I think it would be interesting if those who are sickened by these business tactics were to request from their school districts those EULAs and agreements which govern the use of software in the district. As a taxpayer, you're entitled to this information: If they won't give it up willingly, then surely it can be acquired via an FOIA request (in the states). I know our district has used passage of a $36 million bond issue to outfit our 50,000-student district with more M$ products...exactly what is not needed.
I plan on requesting our district's EULAs through official channels first, then through FOIA channels as a taxpayer. The reason why this situation exists in the first place is the failure of the taxpayers to monitor how their money is being spent.
That's mighty impressive. There's a lot of awfully good people in the Linux world. With a sense of community and pride like they have, who knows what they'll have accomplished in a few years time.
It makes me think. How can Mercenary programmers working for corporations possibly compete with those doing it for the love of the game?
I'm not a 100% Microsoft hater, but it's hard to see them vanquishing a determined, diversified foe like this (who doesn't have to make a profit to continue fighting.) I'm betting my future skill training on Linux. They're absolute berserkers on the OS battlefield!
Hand me that stack of O'Reilly books.
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Slogan-free since April! We pass the savings on to you!
I suggest that K-12 schools get together and lobby congress for a software exemption similar the the following one for sheet music. Problem solved. I can just imagine the tightened sphincters at M$
..." 17 USC 110
"[T]he following are not infringements of copyright:
(1)performance or display of a work by instructors or pupils in the course of face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution...
(2) performance of a nondramatic literary or musical work or display of a work, by or in the course of a transmission,
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast.
Ironically, after years of linking to that Wired article as though it's really happening, it turns out these paragraphs at the bottom were the important ones:
It may turn out that this is the project that winds up making the difference in getting Linux into North American schools.What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I work in a school district and this is what I thinks needs to happen:
1) Drop windows in the classroom
2) Get the "kids" involved with Linux/BSD
3) If we get the "kids" working with Linux now then in a few years if we are lucky M$ will have to compily with the Linux user demands
4) Get the "Kids" using Linux/BSD NOW!!!
There could be hundreds of other customers who are all saying the same thing. The vendors might be thinking that none of their customers want to run Linux. If you get talking to each other, you might find that it benefits you both.
Public education is a social institution, not a business. Traditional business rules do not apply to public education, hence M$ business tactics have backfired on them.
Anybody curious about the absence of Apple Computers, who once had a stronghold in education?
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
I just moved into my town a little over two years ago, and learned shortly after moving in that the School District had just launched a major effort to completely overhaul their IT infrastructure. The bill was enormous as the district opted for MS products across the board.
Interestingly enough, it turned out that the guy in charge of the whole implementation, was one of my best friends. A truly brilliant guy, he has always been firmly entrenched in the world of Novell and Microsoft. When I told him, that they really should be looking at Linux for the file, print, and web services he immediately began to recite so much recycled FUD I thought I was talking to Bill Gates himself. Myself and another friend of mine spent hours debating Linux and other open-source solutions, and in the end he conceded some points, but was still largely unmoved.
Well, to make a long story short, he called me last night to tell me that the bill for the School work was getting a little too high for their budget, and they were shopping around for vendors with some Linux experience. His boss, who's even more Pro-MS, told him that they can't lose this contract and that someone needs to "ramp-up" on Linux fast.
We install Linux on his box tomorrow! When it comes to the education market, cost is king.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
It's a basic principle of business - and also, strangely, con artists - you're better off taking a little off your customer/mark over a long period, maintaining a positive relationship for an extended period, rather than taking them for all their worth once and never hearing from them again. You want them coming back, asking for the privilege of handing you more money.
In the business world this is of course, achieved through providing quality products at a fair price acompanied by good customer service.
In a con game, this is achieved through convincing your mark that you are acting in his best interest, and if that deesn't work you can always try threats and extortion.
Microsoft seems to have made a business decision that it is more cost effective to derive funds through threats and extortion rather than by providing a quality product. Before you dismiss this as being an overbroad accusation, consider the following.
In the early 1990s Steve Balmer was quoted as saying that "Software Piracy is a critical part of Microsoft's Business", the reasoning being that if those who couldn't afford Microsoft products, pirated them and their use of the software increased their efficiency in business and otherwise, they would become more profitable both personally and in business and be able to afford to pay for upgrades to the software, so Microsoft would proffit through a somewhat obscure customer aquisition technique.
In the Mid 1990s the BSA began to take major steps to try and curb software piracy through various threats and lobying for new anti-piracy legislation.
Then, in the late 1990s and now, Microsoft has become dissatisfied with collecting from those who illegally use their software. Now they are seeking out organizations who use their software legally, and have always acted in good faith, singling them out, causing them expense and time which they can not afford, above and beyond that which they have already budgeted to legally purchase the software in question.
Is it really a suprise that these faithful customers are now objecting and seeking other alternatives? No. I think not.
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
One of the big issues isn't running Linux, but using all of that already-paid-for Windows educational software.
...).
The performance of WINE is going to be a major lever in moving schools to Linux. If it can be shown that they can use most or all of their existing, paid-for (proprietary) software like Reader Rabbit, Carmen Sandiego, etc. then the migration will be that much easier.
Yes, GNU software is better. However, trying to get them to jump 100% from what they ahve to GNU is going to have one major speedbump -- and it will be made from the pile of existing software that they paid for and still works.
Step #1 is removing Windows, MS Works and MS Office and replacing them with Linux and OpenOffice (or KDE Office, or Gnome Office, or
Another step would be a good, reliable list of Windows Educational software and how it works on WINE. (Heck, most of it is still Win 3.1 compliant!)
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
As the IS Manager for a K-12 school system that uses Linux for our main servers, I really see the advantage of it over NT. Also, I can see using KDE + Mozilla + Star/K/Abi Office for business classes and office PCs. The problem is what do you use to replace all the curriculumn and remediation software like Plato, Abacus, Destinations, Accelerated Reader/Math, STAR Reader/Math, etc.? There aren't any open-source or Linux-based alternatives that I'm aware of.
On the school office side, what do you use to replace SASI/Pentamation/WINSchool/etc.? for student management, grades, attendance, etc.? What do you use in the libraries to replace Follett?
These are all questions that need to be answered before many school systems would even consider switching. Until there is a good answer for all of them, it isn't feasible to switch away from Microsoft and/or Apple.
Jason
"FORMAT C:" - Kills bugs dead!
As a low-level admin at a K12 district, I was pushing Linux, to what appeared to be deaf ears, until a couple of events took place, which sparked a renewed interest in Linux. As a result, we now have one of our webservers, two firewalls, and a proxy server all running Linux. And I can say that as a direct result of:
1) The greatly improved security and performance of the machines when Win2K server was wiped from them in favor of Linux, and
2) The action up in Portland, and Microsoft's generally jackbooted-thug-like behavior toward schools right in the middle of a major budget crisis
We will be headed more and more toward OSS in general and Linux in particular. And our district is by far not the only one. I hear from the other local districts and guess what? They are doing the same thing.
M$ has shot itself in the foot. It is possible that they can get some educators drunk at a conference and buy a little forgiveness, but how many people do you think were there in the context of how many people are dealing with Microsoft audits now? Not too many. And when Microsoft alienates the education market, they don't just piss off some administrators: if and when those administrators migrate some or all of their services and equipment to OSS, the effect inevitably trickles down to the students being educated in that district. The last thing Microsoft wants is for high school students in the process of making college choices to see the superiority of OSS to their own crufty product, and make decisions based in part on that information. But that is just what is happening. So the events going on right now will have ramifications well into the future. Count on it.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
This is actually very true. I work in a high school, and software knowledge problems are from the educators 95% of the time. I have 10 computers in my classroom, and I installed OpenOffice on them when I was denied an office suite due to $$ restrictions. The students picked it up in 10 minutes (as an aside: Open Office also works great for opening corrupted powerpoint and excel files that office 2000 won't). During the summers, I train teachers how to use software, and it is FRUSTRATING when an adult looks at you as if you have strange jungle disease when you explain how to copy and paste.
Can schools make the switch to Linux? Yup, Doing it now. No need for MS Proxy or Border manager when E-Smith(the commercial site) offers a great solution.
Open Office / Star Office is the best thing that has come down the pipe for schools. If a student can learn to use these less expensive/just as robust software packages productively, then they can switch to using what ever MS office product that they may need to use on the job once they get out in the "Real World." What is wrong with education? I don't think computer illiterate teachers are the problem, but it fixing that certainly doesn't hurt.
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"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
I helping the technology guy in a local school district replace the all the NT servers in the schools system with Linux boxes. Win desktops will still rule, but the movement has started.
i had an MS VP tell me point blank that they "permitted" piracy because eventually that person would buy an MS product and give the company money.
that and 0.50 will get you a cup of coffee, so take it for what its worth.
... hi bingo
It is an extremely one sided system- as they unethically designed it to be (1). As many have pointed out, the system is set up to make you feel you cannot possibly fight it, given the unacceptable risk if you lose.(2) However, if you can find other cases where people have fought, and you see how they did it, you might have hope.
People need to know how bad it is for schools. Example: Slashdot on Microsoft / BSA vs the LA School District, (3) where "hundreds" of unlicensed copies were found. the threat was $150,000 fine for each copy of a $100 per license product. ($100 at best. 1/3 was MSDOS, and schools get very good rates). They "negotiate" down to a $300,000 total fine, and the school district probably felt very grateful for this kindness of the BSA.
This is a 150,000% fine negotiated down to a 1,000% fine. (or 1,500x down to 10x). How does the BSA get to levy fines so out of proportion to actual damages? Yes, illegal copies are a crime (as is speeding), but the LAUSD wasn't running a mass piracy operation. Assuming that "hundreds" = 500 copies found, then the LAUSD had found roughly 1 copy per school, or 1 copy per 120 employees. The BSA got to treat the LAUSD as if it had found widespread felonious behavior rather than a few years worth of a few people deliberately or mistakenly making copies. No proof of bad intentions needed.
Extraordinary fines should require extraordinary proof, but instead the BSA has you do all the work, and even if you are entirely innocent you can still get hit. Unless a mistake can cause extraordinary harm, you don't usually get to treat mistakes like a felony! What makes the BSA so special? They get to threaten fines in line with fines for damage to life and health. Is software piracy that much worse than discharging toxic substances into waterways (max fine $125,000)? Misbranding a drug in interstate commerce (max fine $100,000)? Violating the Sherman Antitrust Act (the fine listed in Section 3571 (d) is "not more than the greater of twice the gross gain or twice the gross loss" caused by the conduct...)?
The LAUSD is not a happy ending story- but this current story might be. A collection of all cases like it would be useful for anyone just receiving a dreadful BSA / Microsoft letter. The site should be part of a high-Google-rank site, so that it is easy to find (for non-technical folks). The database should also have easy to find links to all user groups, by geographical areas, so that anyone can quickly get advice / quotes / support.
(1) Because a good ethical system (think Categorical Imperative) includes consistency in applying rules. The BSA would never accept their rules applied to themselves: imagine a Software Consulting Association sending audit letters out checking for late payments to consultants. If you've paid a consultant more than 30 days late, you get fined 150,000% of the daily rate.
(2) You'll fight a traffic ticket because you can afford to lose. What if the original ticket was $100,000, with a "negotiated" fine of $1,000? This is extortion, not a negotiation- you'll accept whatever the court says. Not to mention if *you* had to show that you didn't speed, even a little bit, and lack of evidence = proof of guilt. And it took a minimum of 5 days in court and they get to dismantle your car and replace equipment to test its maximum speed! That is what these audits are: time consuming and they can place programs on your system.
(3) Also see Inside the BSA (2/02)
In the county where I live and attended school, when computer science classes where first offered, they were taught by a handful of math teachers. Most of them did not have a background in programming or designing a computer science curriculum, yet they took the classes and taught them the best they could.
Unfortunately, they quickly gravitated to Visual Basic. The reason one stated to me is that it was an easy language for him to pick up, and it allowed the students to see quick results.
Now, the majority of the local school systems are solidly entrenched in Visual Basic as the primary tool that's used in all the high school computer science classes.
I recently ran into one of my old teachers, and I brought up the subject of Linux and open source software. He had no interest in even discussing it. He says there are plenty of VB sites on the Net with source code provided, and that Linux will never be be an option in the school system because he can't run VB on it. End of discussion. He even started to get a little hot-tempered with me when I tried to tell him about Kylix and some Borland products that were available for Linux.
These teachers all have the ear of the school board. And they seem to speak with a united voice in favor of Microsoft, regardless of price.
I would link to the HBS article but they arn't free... Mindshare isn't why they "tolerated" the piracy, Network effects are.
Fax machines are the simplest example of network effects. If you own the onyo fax machine in the world it is useless. If your friend owns one it's utility goes up. The more people who have fax machines the more useful each fax machine is. Fax machines were frequently sold in PAIRS when they were new bleeing edge tech to ensure the buyer would have a use for their machine.
This same idea applies to MS, their OS and office. The more people who USE that software, the more valuable that software is to all the users. They let it be pirated BECAUSE that drove their software to becoming the defacto standard across the world which they are now profiting from.
Linux could benifitr from the same effects. Each extra user makes all the other users better off, and in turn draws users but you need to get to a critical mass first (and maybe it allready is there. And yes I am a bizzness knurd!
This is SOOOOO true. Most teachers and administration freak out when I mention Linux not because the kids can't learn it, but the Teachers and Administration are too damn stupid to learn it themselves.
:p
I once left an iMac on by accident that had Linux installed on it. Non-English speaking (in the process of learning English) kids were already playing games with it and typing up notes in KOffice. To me, this proves that most young people many not be able to fully understand computers, but they sure as hell have a lot more curiosity than most fundamentalist Teachers and Administrators do. Later that week, the teacher insisted that MacOS should be installed back on it, I refused because I believed the kids could handle it (and they could.) So she went ahead and had the SysAdmin put MacOS back on it.
Isn't one of the main points of education is to allow students to adapt new tools and use them to their full advantage. *sigh* No wonder education is so screwed up in this country. Schools are washed up in political crap and being politically correct. What happened to good old fashioned learning? How about teaching kids to think on their own? Maybe the government just doesn't want the future of America to love freedom and individualism, they just want us to be tax-paying drones.
Sorry for this rant, I'm only 17 and I don't have all the answers, but at least I think I do