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Computers and Cars: A Maddening Experience?
Johnny writes "The nytimes has a review of the new BMW 745i iDrive system. The iDrive system combines some 270 functions, some accessable by voice, into one tactile feedback joystick mouse thingy. While maybe easier for computer junkies, the reviewer finds the interface 'maddening, especially at first' and wonders out loud what a car from Microsoft might be like, citing that the 745i offers a clue. Without a key, a floor shifter or really any buttons, this might be the future for cars, are the masses ready to wrestle with computers just to go to Wawa for milk?"
At a recent computer expo (Comdex), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that get 100 miles to the gallon." Recently,General Motors addresses this comment by releasing this statement, "yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?" Below is a synopsis of the Microsoft Car: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on. Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause your car to stop and fail, and you would have to re-install the engine. for some strange reason, you would accept this too. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT". But then you would have to buy more seats. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times faster, twice as easy to drive, but would only run on 5% of the roads. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades for their cars, which would make their cars run much slower. The oil, gas and alternator lights would be replaced with single "general car fault" lights. The airbag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
pronoblem
a WaWa is basically a 7-11 in the mid-atlantic states, and they seem to be everywhere (and I do mean EVERYWHERE). Some jokes regarding this include "You're from South Jersey if .... you know what a WaWa is, and can name the locations of about 10 of them," "You can give directions by where the WaWas are"
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
I hope that they have a cli version of the interface. I'd be quite disappointed if I had to use the mouse and/or joystick. After all, if you saw a child dart across the road chasing his ball, wouldn't you want to just type in, "killall -9 movement"?
;^P
testing out my trending skills
There's another fairly balanced article and discussion about iDrive over at Kuro5hin that's worth checking out. The author has similar mixed feelings about the technology, and talks about how other car manufacturers like Saab and Audi are developing similar systems.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
Lessee...need to move my seat back...ummm.
U-U-D-L-L-RF-D-L-U
dang..scissor-kicked the driver.
Oh well...might as well finish him.
D-D-L-U-LF-UF-D-U--D-L-L
Thwack!
Pessimists... you need to consider the advantages of a Microsoft car:
your car would seek out and destroy the competition.
the hood would be welded shut. No worrying about it ending up at the chop shop for parts.
its sheer size will trump any SUV on the road today.
- The electronic parking brake is unintuitive and dangerous. One of
the factors that make some cars safer than others is the ease of use of the
parking break in situations in which the main brake lines lose pressure or
the pedal snaps off. This causes the liability and collision insurance
rates to be slightly higher.
- A standard shift lever on an automatic transmission is considered a
safety feature, as both the position and the dash lights make it
immediately apparent to the driver that the car is in gear. The 745i has
only the light, and even at that, the light is stuck in the middle of a
confusing, crowded console. This also increases risk and thus insurance
rates.
- The fact that many Americans are afraid of technology and unable to
perform a task as simple as changing their VCR clock or installing a new
hard drive is a chilling reminder of the fact that valets, test drivers,
and other "guest drivers" of the 745i will be putting the driving public at
risk and increasing the owner's insurance rates.
- Since it is extraordinarily difficult to do something as simple as
turning on headlights or changing the radio station, the driver's attention
is likely to be diverted from the road.
All told, my actuary friend told me that the insurance rates for the first year that a driver owns a 745i are going to be astronomical. Rates for successive years are slightly lower, although the vehicle is generally regarded in the community to be a threat to life and property, and a lawsuit waiting to happen.The car is a real technology lover's paradise: active suspension, GPS, umpteen dozen little controls over everwhere. And yes, there is a key, but it's just a little puck that you insert into the dash. It has it's own little computer and calculates rolling security codes on the fly to foil car theives.
Now about the only thing I didn't like was the stinking iDrive system. It just plain sucks!! It way to hard to control things that I used to be able to push a button and do. Like surfing through three levels of menus just to turn on the defroster. Stupid.
The interface itself is ok, the button is hard to get used to becuase it is a joystick and wheel/button in one. And when you do something illegal it vibrates. Slick enough, but the interface is god awful.
Luckily this thing controls non-critical functions, I could see lawsuits brought if it controlled the gear selection or traction system.
Someone also told me that the software inside the iDrive is actually WinCE, can anyone verify this? If so, it would be truly a MS car after all.
BMW has a good track record of innovation, but I think this is a serious detour.
Contrary to popular belief, life is not a bitch. It is far far worse.
"European Car" magazine reviewed the new 7 series in their February, 2002 issue.
They mention that in 1953, the BWM 502 had 26 control and indicator functions. In the late 90's, the 7-series had over 70 functions, with as many indicators, and over 35 control elements (buttons, etc.)
Something *had* to be done to reduce the complexity of the cockpit. While driving down the road you do not want the person in the car next to you trying to figure out which of the 40 buttons on the dash controls what. You can do it by feel with more simple cars, but cars as advanced as the 7-series will be simply too much.
Most reviews I have read (I am a big car buff, especially BMWs) all say that once you get used to the system (go out in your driveway for a Saturday), you can figure the system out fairly quickly, and that using it (once you have it figured out) is actually easier than a bunch of buttons.
Also realize this is the first generation of the system. User interface will only get better.
I recently drove a Mercedes Benz C320 with the navigation system and cell phone options. They were all combined with the stereo onto one LCD. Once I figured out the relatively easy interface, I was able to do more by touch than I have been able to with other cars using buttons.
Having one consistent interface made things much easier.
About the only problem I foud, and the only problem mentioned in most reviews, is the ability to do multiple thigns at once. You cannot raise the stero's volume at the exact same time as you adjust the passenger-side heat.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Car controls have changed dramatically through the years. The high-beams used to be via a footswitch. Windshield wipers only moved onto a stalk on the console very recently. Transmission controls have varied widely: stalks, buttons, levers, etc. True, the main controls (wheel, throttle, brake) haven't moved too much, but one might argue there aren't many variations possible if you a) want to steer with two hands and b) want to speed up/slow down with your feet. There were tillers on some early cars, but the public tended to prefer the wheel. Also, remember that engine controls in the old days were incredibly complex, letting you adjust engine timing, butterfly valve settings, and myriad other features.
I think we've seen plenty of change. Just try to drive a car from the twenties or thirties some time.
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
the reviewer finds the interface 'maddening
I can see why, if the interface was designed by the same people who designed their website.
When I pulled up their site I got the worst mis-rendered disaster I have ever seen. I got a column of text wordwrapped at !!14!! characters. Some of the text was invisible on black background. I got random little lines all over the screen. I don't know if it's because I'm using Netscape. I don't konw it it's because I have cookies shut off. But I *do* know it's not just because I have JavaScripting shut off. How do I know? I tried turning it Java script on and reloading. It actually wound up rendering *less* of the page.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
...when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Wait...come to think of it, that's probably just how it would happen. But I guess I wouldn't need it then.
I hate cars that try to be smarter than the driver. Give me my old Morgan any time. I do miss it so. <sigh>
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
Registration-free link
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
On a recent business trip, I had the opportunity to drive a new 745i. All I have to say it what in the hell was BMW thinking? My first impression of the car walking up to it was, wow.....it's ugly. My next impression was sitting in the drivers seat and wondering how to turn on the headlights. (it was night) I kept thinking that this was absolutely like a Microsoft designed interface.
Any vehicle that has a user interface so non-intuitive that one needs to pull out the owners manual to adjust the mirrors, figure out how to shift, and turn on headlights is just plain bad design. And what is up with the parking brake?!!? Furthermore, I like being able to determine what gear I am in by touch, not having to look at a display someplace. BMW vehicles in the past have had wonderful driving experiences with intuitive placement of controls, but if this is the way things are going with BMW, I will be looking at Audi (the A8 is a wonderfully understated and competent automobile with a superlative driving environment.) BMW should know what they are doing and I can only hope this is an accidental release. (They got it right with the Mini afterall.)
Quirky is one thing (Porshe and Saab with weird places for the ignition key), but the 745i's interface is downright unacceptable, bordering on dangerous.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
MS-DOS: You get in the car and try to remember where you put your keys. Failing to find them, you climb on your bike and pedal over. You have to make several trips since you can only carry one thing at a time.
...
... the hell with it, I'm gonna stay home and play with the car ...
OS/2: It's a great car, it drives well, but it will only work on 70% or the roads in your area. After fueling up with 6,000 gallons of gas, you get in the car and drive to the store with a motorcycle escort and a marching band on parade. Halfway there, the car blows up, killing you and half the town.
WINDOWS: You get in the car and drive to the store very slowly; because attached to the back of the car is a freight train. Other than that, it's pretty neat; it's all run by pushbuttons, but it only goes about 35mph, you gotta warm it up for twenty minutes before it'll run, and it manages to hit 3 phone poles, a mail box, a stop sign, and two other cars on the way.
WINDOWS NT: It LOOKS really fast, like a Formula 1 car, and it's built so low to the ground that you can't take it out of the driveway. You get in the car and write a letter that says "Go to the store". Then you get out, and mail the letter to your dashboard.
WINDOWS 95: You call the garage to find out it isn't fixed yet, but you can keep the Windows loaner until it is.
MACINTOSH SYSTEM 7: You get in the car to go to the store. The car drives you to church, because the store has mysteriously exploded.
UNIX - You get in the car and type "GREP STORE". You screech off at 200 miles per hour, and arrive at the barber shop.
UNIX-WARE - Great deal, and looks really cool. Doesn't have an engine, though... Call Novell, buy an engine. No tires. Call Novell. No transmission. Call Novell. No clutch. Call Novell. No carbs. Call Novell. They don't support carbs anymore. Buy a fuel injector. No steering wheel
NETWARE - You have to hire a CNE to chauffeur you around, but he keeps wrecking the car.
AMIGA - You get in the car and tell it to go to the store. It takes you to a shopping mall on the moon.
TALIGENT/PINK: You walk to the store with Ricardo Montelban, who tells you how wonderful it will be when he can fly you to the store in his Learjet.
AIX - Cool. A cross between a BMW and a Hyundai pickup truck.
LINUX - The developers have been here overnight and changed everything again. You wonder what the new cattle-catcher front end and rear gun turret are for. Car won't start. Hot-wire the ignition. No oil pressure. Add oil. Bad backfire, injection system needs adjusting. Check manual - nope, manual's three months out of date. Tune injectors by ear. Stereo is missing the left channel, tire pressure seems low, needs a good wax job
where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
Be sure and click on the "related article" too, Menus Behaving Badly:
My beagle, whose job description is "scan roadsides for squirrels," is in the back, moving from one side window to the other. Each time he shifts, sensors in the seat take note, and the right rear headrest whirrs up as the left one whirrs down. For the next two hours, the headrests dance in tandem, as if trying to provide comfort for restless spirits.
OK, there may be some genuine safety advances that make the car more complicated, for example and air-conditioning system will help keep the windscreen from fogging up. But what functions do you need to drive a car safely?
BMW et al. can make running the stereo and other non-essential features as interesting as they want, so long as they don't mix them up with essential functions. People who get used to a particular UI aren't going to be the only people driving this car. Nor do we particlarly need a situation where you need a certification in a particular model of car before you can drive it safely.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Cars have changed many times. I have driven cars from the 30's and it isn't that much more complicated if you already know how to drive a car with a standard with partial or no synchro on the manual transmission and with manual choke. If you can't do that, what the heck are they doing letting you drive an 1800 kg hopefully-guided missile?
Turning cars into things idiots can drive has very much turned the roadways into the home of the idiot. ABS, automatic transmissions, cruise control (this one not so much), traction control, etc. are the kind of things that have lowered the bar of driver competence. And they give illusions of capability that aren't always accurate. ABS works better under some conditions than standard brakes, but not always. In slush or gravel, it actually has longer braking distance (as O.P.P. studies discovered). For some reason, vehicles got from A to B for years without a lot of these features and yet we have them now. Computer control is another example.
Take your example of the dimmer switch. Remove the floor switch (not too hard to replace) and put it (linked to the windshield wipers/etc) on the control yoke (not as easy to replace) and this is an improvement? And what happened to automatic headlight dimmers like those used by Cadillac? The auto-industry has had any number of good ideas that for mysterious reasons have vanished, and a lot of hairbrained ones that stuck around.
Once upon a time, car manuals listed technical specs like compression, gear ratios, horsepower and torque curves (not just single rpm quotations), bore and stroke, etc. Now, you get told about the cup holders. Need I say more?
And I found it interesting that a some of the head safety guys for NASCAR and CART utterly disagree with some of the current design practices for cars. They _know_ about high speed collisions with other cars and with concrete walls, and they have a rather different philosophy on how to protect the passangers than most car manufacturers.
Car manufacturers are in business to make money, not necessarily to make the best car and sometimes that means gizmos, even if they are a bad idea. If it were otherwise, someone can explain to me why a ten year old F150 supercab with a 2.5 ton truck 4 speed and a carbuerated 351 gets better MPG than a standard cab F150 with a 5 speed with overdrive and fuel injection and a 302? New ain't always better.
I haven't driven one, but one pulled up behind me on the expressway this afternoon. Black. Like a spaceship. I thought Hotblack Desiato was trying to overtake and pass...
Who did what now?
A 7-series BMW is really not a very valuable car. While I would agree with you if we were talking about some type of classic Bentley, or something special like a Ferrari 456GTA. I might even have a problem with someone putting their dog into a 750iL. (Actually, no, on second thought I wouldn't.) A BMW 745 is strictly fungible goods -- no need to baby it at all. In fact, babying your BMW 7-series is pathetically bourgeois behavior. You'll end up looking like those poor saps with the "garage queen" Lexus IS300's. Please, muster some self-respect.