Slashdot Mirror
Another Side-Effect of Spam
ghostie writes: "According to this article on news.com.au Telstra (Australias largest Telco) is having some problems with email blacklist operators. They claim that large (previously unused) portions of it's IP range have been black-listed even though they have never been used before. It seems the direct-action approach to stopping spam is having a detrimental effect as well. When will it all stop?"
Spam will not stop until the current SMTP system is replaced. The main reason the current SMTP system can't be eliminated is all the current registration systems which send an email confirmation. Admittedly, my own site is part of the problem in this regard.
A system like passport would go a long way toward stopping spam. But I honestly don't see how to convince both consumers and content providers to join in on that system.
Given the lack of technical details in the article, it's a bit difficult to see who's in the wrong. The customer in question was a DSL customer, which is essentially a glorified "always-on" dial-up account, not a leased line equivalent, and as such it's quite possible that the IP space was on a DUL blocklist, rather than an open relay blocklist. So, putting two and two together, if Telsta has designated a series of class C IP blocks for use with DSL with ARIN, it's quite likely that these would find their way into a DUL list before they are assigned to an actual user. Of course, that might just be a "2+2=5" scenario.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Writing to Telstra would get you an auto-ignore saying that the spam didn't originate from Telstra, and thus they would do nothing. If they still operate this way, they have it coming, and it serves them right.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
my pc is down atm. how do i get my IM?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Better question: how are you posting on slashdot?
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
SPAM will stop when SPAMMERS are jailed and bankrupted!
If you track down a few spammers, get large judgments against them, and take their houses, they may realize spamming is not cheap.
Fight Spammers!
my point was that email is store and forward with a set of well worked standards on how I can both store and forward my mail. IM relies on the vagaries of IM suppliers and their central servers.
Don't like the EULA for ICQ/AIM/MSNMessenger any more?
Tough, you just lost contact with your friends.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Write your own client.
:
.NET Messenger Service.
Could you give me the URL of where the RFC for MSN Messenger protocol is please?
I did find this
You may use only Microsoft client software or authorized third-party software to access and/or use the
So instead of using "dead" email I should run the risk of criminal prosecution?
It just gets better and better.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Spam is a social problem - not a technical problem.
You can implement all the technical measures you want and it won't stop spam. Granted there are some technical measures that exist that will help such as eliminating open relays, but spammers just change their methods to get spam through.
A good analogy would be to tell a woman that she can expect to get raped and have no legal recourse. She can wear a chastity belt, but that's just a weak technical measure that a determined rapist will get around. So shall we require all our women to wear titanium suits to protect themselves and go through all the pain and hassles that go along with it? Doesn't this sound stupid as hell?
You need to educate that it's morally wrong to cost shift advertizing onto others, and have legal means to go after those who spam. An international "known spam offender" database can help ISP's stop selling access to those who flaunt the law.
Back to the main topic, Telstra is probably having problems because people block 211.*.*.* which is mostly asian / china. A small part is allocated to Australia. This MAY be what is going on...
I use email at work, I use it to replace faxes, memos and phone calls. There are systems out there where faxes go to department "inboxes" and even voicemail from your phone can go into your inbox. It is really quite nice, a single place for all messages
Everything is documented, and files can be easily transmitted.
It also works well for international teams (ie Europe/NA/Asia) we are all in different time zones.
IM tends to have message size limits, not everyone uses it. The clients suck for messaging 20 or 30 people the same thing.
Web boards don't work as well when you have many restricted discussions, where email you just send it to who you want to read it.
It mith be stupid, but here it is...
My idea is that emails protocols should not be replaced, they shoul be enhanced to support identification of the sender.
When someone knocks on your door, you look at who it is before letting them enter your house, no?
So a standard could be put in place which would enable you to filter the sender at the relay level instead of in your mail box. Well known address from you would be allowed to enter your mail box freely, while other one would have to identified themself well before being allowed. Just like when a rep of some phone company ring at my door, they have to identify themself well, and then, only then, if I'm interested in what they have to say, I let them enter. (Which is never the case hehe). So email protocols would need to be added a very complete identification section. There is no obligation to fill it for sure, but if you don't, people can always filter you out at the source. Once this ID is filtered out, it is put on your "black list". Then, when you connect to your mail server, it would send you the ID's of all the mail they have for you, and you would send them back a list of the emails you want to reject. This way, you get only what you want, and you save bandwith on unwanted spam. Am I crazy, or is it possible anytime?
I'd rather be sailing...
If it's not a technical problem, it's damned close.
It's no more ridiculous than saying I should start to write my own Messenger client because I want to communicate with my MSN Messenger contacts but disagree with the Messenger EULA.
The EULA says that one can't use an unauthorised client to access the service. The ultimate recourse for non-compliance is criminal prosecution.
I'll just stick to email, my filters sort solicited form unsolicited pretty easily. My bandwidth is paid for. The rest is up to the ISPs and as more and more struggle they might find that reducing bandwidth consumption by eliminating spam is a winner all round.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Glad you explained WHY it's a bad analogy. Kinda like the "because I said so" response.
It's rape because you are violated. Nobody want's spam. It's forced upon you. It frequently offends you. You are forced to pay for it either directly or indirectly in higher ISP prices, lower email server performance, your time dealing with it, etc.
The chastity belt is akin to block lists / filtering software. They are a pain where legit email can get blocked and some spam still gets through. It's something YOU have to deal with because of the lack of morals of someone else.
Since there is no law, we have no recourse. I want recourse. I KNOW it won't stop all spam, but at the current rate that it is increasing, email will be unusable in 2 years. In the past 6 months I've logged a 10 times increase in spam.
There are those that think that we should just change the email protocol. When should we do this? How long of grace period do we let old email work? 2 years? Look how fast IPv6 is being implemented...
To suggest that we can implement a new secure email protocol in less than several years shows a major lack of understanding of business, economics, IT infrastructure, etc.
That's simply not true. Besides, you definately don't have to agree to the EULA if you don't use the software, and arguably even if you do. .NET now.
It's the terms and conditions fo rusing the service not the client software, it's all
As for the criminal part yes it's exaggerated, yes it's unlikely but that's what the T&C says.
I used to work in a 3 man ISP. We tried to do what we could, we tried the ORB and the RBL but that just generated more complaints. Any other schemes require different clients and servers and it's just not worth the bother. Of our 5000 subscribers I only remember getting one complaint about spam in the 2 years I was dealing with the support.
I think that the designers of SMTP got it just about right. I've read a few proposed solutions and they all seem imperfect in their own way. Maybe the flaws of SMTP are outweighed by the things that's right about it.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
Spam is the internet's version of rape. It's an ANALOGY, and a DAMN good one which is why you can't come up with a rebutal to it. Of COURSE "rape" and "spam" are different. They also share similar characteristics which I have explained in detail.
When you can't come up with a logical argument to support your view, you resort to personal attacks and regurgitate my post with search and replace.
Grow up, troll.
Telstra is a blackhat and some DNS blacklists will list every Telstra netblock until they get their shit together. I personally don't wait for a large DNS blacklist to list spam-supporting ISPs. I blacklist them on my MTAs myself. Broadwing is my favorite example of this in action. I've blacklisted every single IP they own. I blacklisted /19s or bigger at a time and didn't hesitate doing it. If my experiences with Telstra become similar, I'll do the same to them. I choose not to communicate with spam-supporters. Sometimes listing an entire provider is the only way to make them extract their heads from their asses (which happen to be so far up there that the lumps in their throats are their noses). Pressure from their customers is the only way to affect them.
- Have a government sponsored nospam server that will keep a list of emails to opt out of any sort of advertising campaign.
- When a company wishes to send out a mass email campaign, it first sends a secure authorization to this nospam server.
- The user enters in the emails in which it is sending the agreement. If any of the emails match the nospam list, it therefore does not send email to the person on the list.
- Opt-In email: If the user chooses to opt in for a particular service/email. A sample of the person's DNA will be taken. The md5sum of the sequences will be compared to the md5sum stored on file at a secret government location, where other human tissue samples are stored. If the md5sum on file is a match, the company is then allowed to send the person and email.
Issues- What if the company obtains the md5sum from someone other than you? That's easy. All you have to do is change your genetic sequencing and submit a new copy of your DNA to the government! This way, when the government tries to clone you, they will be cloning a correct copy of you as well.
- What if you don't want to be on the company's mailing list anymore? In that case, you download the source to the database that they're using (mysql or postgres). Find a security hole, and log in as root to the database. Delete your record from the database. Do other people a favor and wipe out their records.
- What if the spammer is from a country outside the jursidiction of the nospam policy? That's easy too.
:)
Conclusion My bill is currently being argued in front of the Senate by the remaining members of Monty Python, who in a high pitched voice complain to the congressmen that they "don't like spam".Alternate Plan: Get 20 of your friends and hire Kevin Mitnick to wipe out the database for you.
- Go onto Yahoo Games.
- Go into the chess spot
- Go into room #defcon
- Say that you would rather play Global Thermonuclear War.
- Spoof nuclear missles launching from the country of your choice.
- Repeat spoofing of missles from countries where other spam messages you receive originate from.
You could also form a world government specifically for the purpose of stopping spam, but then that's kind of like going through the horse's ass to reach its mouth.Whether it passes the Senate after seeing 5 men dressed as either Vikings or Women is anyone's guess.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i