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Sonicblue Wins Stay of Spying Order
ebonkyre writes "According to this article, federal Judge Florence-Marie Cooper has stayed the order which would require SONICBlue to begin recording users viewing habits and reporting them to the MPAA, et al. It has been stayed until June 3rd, at which time the court is to review SB's motion to throw out the order entirely." EPIC has filed a brief supporting Sonicblue's position. EPIC's argument (starting on page 5 of the PDF) neatly summarizes why this order should never have been given.
SONICBlue's legal doc makes some good analogies:
In a personal injury lawsuit, it is relevant to kknow whether a plaintiff who claimed to be wheelchair-bound in fact left his chair; yet, one would be hardpressed to find a discovery ruling in which a judge ordered a plaintiff to place an electronic sensor in his chair seat. In a defamation lawsuit, it would be helpful to know if in fact the defamatory comment had a wide circulation among plaintiff's neighbors; yet, it is unfathomable to think that a court would order a microphone to be place in the local pub.
The point I think they are trying to make is that the only reason this seems even slightly reasonable (and the above examples do not) is because it affects so many people that it becomes a statistic, and the way in which those people's privacy is violated is complicated enough that it is easy to gloss over the fact that it is a severe intrusion into the living rooms of SONICBlue's customers!
This ruling is sickening, and I think it seriously hints at some money changing hands between the plaintiff's and the powers that be. This ruling unquestionably violates the rights of SONICBlue and its customers, and it is without legal precedent.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
Among features the studios and networks object to are the ability to skip commercials and a broadband connection that allows users to exchange recorded programs with others.
PBS has been airing quality television programs for many years commercial-free by asking viewers to contribute their financial support. This and the ability to hit the mute/channel change button on my remote allow me to watch TV stations commercial-free.So what's next, suing TV manufacturers to force them to start making TV remotes without mute buttons and channel changing capabilities? God forbid I excercise my own free will and look for an alternative.
Further, what's to prevent me from recording a show to VHS, taking it to a friend's house, and then watching it again? This is a method of sharing. It's just not as convenient for me to do so. Add to this the term "digital" or "broadband" and suddenly all the lawyers in the room come alive as programmed and start using acronyms like DMCA.
I think the truth is that companies like Disney realize that someone else beat them to the technology, they realized what an opportunity they missed (to make more money), and they're now trying to catch up by miring the industry in legal battles.
Regardless of what Disney and their ilk think, I decide whether or not they are successful... Unfortunately, I (and most /. readers) am in the minority of people who actually give a rat's ass and vote with their wallet.
Yeah yeah, I know. Flamebait.
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you don't have to outrun the bear, just the slowest person in your group.
That's essentially what SonicBLUE did. If you read through the brief there's a section which details the fact that SonicBLUE decided not to implement data gathering facilities due to cost and consumer reaction concerns.
The fact that they didn't implement those data gathering methodologies is what allows them to stop the discovery proceedings like this. One of the main points of the brief is that Civil discovery rules do not allow surveilence as a means of obtaining prospective evidence. If SonicBLUE already had the data it would be a cinch for the plaintiffs to get their hands on it. That's what discovery is. But since they don't actually have the data they are arguing (correctly, IMHO) that they can not be compelled to gather the data.
Behold the Power of Cheese!
And the majority of that traditional advertising is a simple "this program was made possible by a grant from the XYZ Corporation." It isn't in your face, it doesn't annoy anyone and doesn't turn an hour show into 35-40 minutes worth of crap. It does, however, fund programming and create a brand association. ABC Corp. interrupts my shows with shitty ads. XYZ Corp. funded that Nova episode.
The few things I do watch aren't on PBS, though. I'll buy a PVR when it all gets sorted out and that'll be fun.
I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
Just because their business model is for advertisers to pay for production in return for also broadcasting ads is no reason to enshrine that business model forever. If it is no longer viable, then they should find a new business model or go out of business.
Are we supposed to weep for vaudeville tap dancers and plate jugglers because radio and TV ran their business model into the ground?
How about street sweepers -- should we guarantee them a job even though the automobile reduced the amount of horseshit on the roads?
Infuriate left and right
in reference to his attitude about people who skip ads during shows...
;)
CW: What if you have to go to the bathroom or get up to get a Coke?
JK: I guess there's a certain amount of tolerance for going to the bathroom
jeez how reasonable of him, there is a "certain" tolerance for allowing natural bodily functions by TV viewers, but im guessing that us beer drinkers and people with weak bladders should probably stop watching, because such willy-nilly use of the bathroom is probably thievery
full interview here btw
Which is what bugs me about this.
The court shouldn't even be fucking involved in this. It's legal to piss while you watch TV. It's legal to tape a show to an analog VCR and fast-forward through the commercials. There's no law that says that VCR's can only fast-forward at a certain rate - just an engineering problem with spinning a shaft and winding a spool of magnetic tape. A VCR with extremely powerful motors (and really strong tape :-) could do this and nobody would bat an eye.
The difference between the VCR and PVR is that a VCR engineered to do that would cost thousands, and the tape, hundreds. The PVR makers have merely built a better ad-skipping mousetrap, by swapping analog stretchy tape for bits on a disk and a CPU to decode them.
So how the fuck are the Content Cartel able to browbeat judges into thinking that 30-second skip is somehow worthy of a lawsuit? (Yes, I know that's not the thrust of this suit, but with that fucknozzle from AOL/TW calling PVR users "thieves", we know it's coming). Why the hell aren't such suits immediately recognized as SLAPPs (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participations) and thrown out?
All the PVR industry needs to do to achieve total world domination(tm) is run one 30-second spot, something like this:
Presto! Instant consumer adoption - it gives the consumer what he wants - the ability to watch a 2-hour broadcast of a movie in 90 minutes. (The ability to watch a whole baseball game in 20 minutes
The consumer wants this, but they can't imagine that it's possible. Your job is to show them that it's not only possible, but it's here, and available for the low, low price of $10/month.
Will you get sued? Probably. But you're getting sued by these bastards anyways. Why not get the public on your side now, before the Content Cartel gets Congress to pass a law banning 30-second-skip or other ad-skipipng features in PVRs? (Or a judge bans your product, which is what the Cartel is trying to have done now?)
The Cartel can get away with it because Joe Sixpack doesn't know he can skip commercials.
I know this is horribly old-fashioned, but lots of people have made assloads of money by simply making the consumer aware of a need they didn't know they had ("I hate the 3-4 minute ad breaks") and that you have a product that meets that need ("You mean I don't have to watch commericals if I buy your box?").
When Joe Sixpack realizes he can skip commercials, it'll be too late. Just like Sony vs. Betamax - once Joe Sixpack found out how valuable time-shifting was, no court, (and just as importanly, no Congresscritters), will dare take it away from him.
Why work with the broadcasters? You guys sell hardware and subscription-based software. I can't see any legal reason why 30-second skip is any more "illegal" than fast-forwarding on a VCR, or channel-surfing during the commercials. FUCK the broadcasters. You don't need them.
The fact of the matter is that the viewing habits that can be tracked and utilized by a PVR that is networked are extremely valuable and useful to a whole host of interested parties. It dwarfs the value of similar data about web users' habits and demographics.
I tend not to be as militant about privacy as most of the rest of you. Even so, I agree that this type of information should be anonymous if it is collected. Perhaps also an explicit opt-in. But even with those requirements, the data collected is still very useful and valuable. That data is worth a great deal of money to the PVR manufacturers. The broadcast industry had every reason to expect that SonicBlue was collecting this information; and, if not, that they will in the future. It's disingenuous of SonicBlue to act as if collecting that information is something that they don't do and would never consider doing. Frankly, that would be a stupid business decision.
In this way, this information and its collection is substantially different from the "sensor in the wheelchair" or "microphone in the bar" analogies that Amici uses. In those cases, that information would never be collected for any reason outside the context of a court order. In the SonicBlue case, this information is closer to, for example, Best Buy's information on what kinds of people buy what kinds of products from which Best Buy stores. Best Buy probably collects this information, and there are hypothetical court cases where this would be relevant and completely acceptable for the plaintiff to order its discovery (or how ever that should be worded).
SonicBlue is in a tricky situation here. The broadcast industry is asking for information that SonicBlue might reasonably be collecting and that they very well may want to be collecting if they're not. The broadcast industry wants information on how the ReplayTV devices are being used, and that information is relevant to the case. SonicBlue certainly has an interest in how their PVRs are being used, and that information is at their fingertips.
I don't think that Amici is going to convince the court of their position. The personal privacy issues can be easily addressed while still collecting the information that is relevant to the case. And that information is not merely relevant -- it's crucial. Is the ReplayTV a device that exists to break copyright law? Or is it a perfectly acceptable example of fair use in the VCR tradition? SonicBlue can supply strong evidence one way or another simply by checking to see how their product is being used. As I said, it's at their fingertips, and there's good reason to believe that they are or will be collecting it anyway.
Having said all that, I'm as rabidly angry about the entertainment industry's methods and goals in the wider debate as anyone here on Slashdot.
Actually, the best ad wouldn't be the "Find an annoying guy to talk about the product" one I mentioned a few minutes ago.
The best ad would cost $20 to produce:
30 seconds of a 1000-hz tone at loud volume, and in big block letters:
"If you owned a PVR, you could press 'skip ad' and never have to sit through another annoying ad again."