Disconnecting Telemarketers

Anonymous Scientist at UMass sent in a story about opt-out telemarketing laws, and several people submitted this story about a spam bill in the Senate. New York's telemarketing law does work - since we put our number on the list, we've gotten a couple of calls from charities (not covered by the law) and a couple of calls from Time-Warner Cable, asking us to sign up for cable. Time-Warner's calls would be banned, except that we have a pre-existing business relationship with them - you see, we already have cable. Update: 05/18 15:30 GMT by M : Oh, and if you live in New York: NYNoCall.com.

Comments

Simple solution

[NineNine]

It's simple. Get rid of the land line. Cell phones are cheaper and easier. Telemarketers don't have cell phone numbers. Of course, if you use your land line for dial-up like I do, we just removed all of our telephones in the house. No telemarketers. Simple.

Re:Simple solution

[glitch!]

Get rid of the land line. Cell phones are cheaper and easier. Telemarketers don't have cell phone numbers.

That's an excellent point. I carry my cell phone everywhere, and everyone I know has the number. (I guess "they" can track me, now...) Recently I have stopped answering my home phone, and let my 2-year old answer it instead. She loves it! "Hewwwwooo?" babble babble babble. I figure that if she is still talking after a minute or so, it is someone in the family, and I can take over. Otherwise, who cares? :-)

Re:Scams

[shaldannon]

Well...once when I was a missionary in California City, I got a call from someone alledging to be from the Bakersfield FOP. He asked if I would be interested in giving them money. I replied with "I'm a missionary, so I don't have a whole lot of money...but if you're interested, I could arrange to have some missionaries from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints some share a message about Jesus Christ." He hung up pretty quickly...

i hate telemarketers

[DigiBoi]

they try to sell me siding, roofing, windows, remodeling, lawn care, etc. and i live in an apartment.

id hate to see what they try to sell you if you own a home.

And if you live in Texas

[Serk]

And if you live in Texas - http://www.texasnocall.com/

And for what it's worth, it works, my spam-calls have gone to nearly zero (I still get charity calls)... The other thing to cut way down on spam-calls is this magic phrase - 'Please put me on your do not call list. Thank you.'...

Reusing numbers

[popeydotcom]

We recently moved house and connected to NTL for telephone and cable modem. They gave us a number and I asked for it to be ex-directory (so it doesn't show up in public directories and thus should reduce the chances we get spam calls). Within a week or two we were getting fax calls from someone at all hours of the day and night. Not nice for Clare when I'm away from home, waking her up in the middle of the night (we don't have a fax machine). Problem is they always seemed to block their number, so dialling 1472 to get the CLI number didn't work. However *once* it did. We got the number and searched for it on the internet. I found out the company name and got their website from google. I then figured out their email naming convention and send an email to every employee in the company telling them to stop.

They stopped.

The problem was that our number was reused. It had been someone elses fax number 6 months ago. The phone company said they could change our number if we wanted, but we'd just get another recycled number.

The dimwit company with the fax machine hadn't purged their marketing database at all.

In the UK we have an opt-out system also, called the 'Telephone Preference Service'. There's also an associated organisation called the 'Mail Preference Service' to reduce spam through the letter box. Since we registered we haven't had any spam calls and little or no mail either.

The obvious solution...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

We form vigilante groups of 10 or so, for every major city in the country. We arm them with flechette round shotguns, incendiary grenades and train them for a few weeks. We have the various legislatures authorize law enforcement to investigate spamming, and inform the vigilantes of any known telemarketer lair.

We send in the troops.

Either that, or we pull a Sigourney Weaver... "We go back to the mothership, and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Re:Telemarketer blocking devices

[larien]

ISTR hearing about these before; IIRC they sent a short signal to the caller that the line was engaged or was invalid. This was short enough that legit users wouldn't notice it, but the telemarketers' call machines would and mark the number invalid.

I have no idea how reliable they are or what their effect on legit callers is, but another post seems to think they weren't much good. *shrug*

101 Way to Waste Their Time

[Tarquin Sidebottom]

The How Long Will They Wait Test
If telemarketers are prepared to waste your time you should waste theirs. When they call, say you're interested but just a second and lay the phone down. Return a few minutes later and either hang up the phone or laugh at them if they're still on the phone.

The Parrot Approach
Do the old, copy them approach. Once you know it telemarkers, simply repeat them word for word. The conversation will get nowhere slowly and it will put them in the unusual position of having to be the one to terminate the call.

I'm Interested But I'm A Complete Idiot Approach
This involves asking them as many question, preferibly including some rather idiotic questions. Keep this going for as long as you can without ever agreeing to anything or giving them any information. Given that they are generating sales they will happiliy carry on their sales pitch.

The "I'm On Watch Out Jeremy Beadles About, aren't I" Approach
This involves refusing to believe that they are trying to sell something but its really a prank call by a TV show.

The Swithcback Manouver
"I'm afraid not, but while you're on the phone would you like to be some double glazing?" Confuse them switching roles, be "agresive" and make them feel guilty for not taking you up on your sales offer.

Any more suggestions?

Re:101 Way to Waste Their Time

[Kappelmeister]

Any more suggestions?

Yes. Say "I'm not interested" and hang up.

People who work for telemarketers work on commission. When you stall, "parrot," or anything else, you're not wasting the company's time, but the person's time -- and, consequently, their paychecks. The longer you keep them on the line, the less opportunity they have to close a sale with someone else.

Look, I'm not trying to elicit sympathy for the telemarketing companies. I hate the intrusions as much as you do. But the callers themselves are not evil people; they are simply looking for a regular job like the rest of us. When you stall the call to "get them," you're not getting the right people.

Re:101 Way to Waste Their Time

[Tarquin Sidebottom]

'If you're part of the solution, you're part of the problem.' as the say goes. Maybe they do need a job, but they're still cold-calling and so they are not exactly innocent parties. If they're innocent, then what about the manager that instigates the marketing campaign? After all, they're just trying to do their regular job like the rest of us. Can we blame the company, after all, it's just trying to make a profit from it's time like the rest of do. Where exactly do you draw the line? Personally I do so at anyone who is willingly involved.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a heartless bastard, I'd rather just waste the time of those at the top of the chain but thats not always possible.

Say for example that all cold-calling had to be opt-in. So few people would opt in that there'd be hardly any market for it. Consequently, the wouldn't be a great number of jobs in it. And that same person wouldn't even have a job to receive a paycheck for. At the end of the day, the two are intertwined - you can't hurt the idea of telemarketing without also hurting the person's paycheck.

So until the day that goverments decide to make it opt-in, the best way to hurt the idea of cold-calling is to make the job such a poor earner that nobody will do it.

Re:101 Way to Waste Their Time

[ImaLamer]

When I worked in telemarketing I loved this:

ME: "This is *** from the *******, how are you doing today?"

THEM: "Fine ***"

ME: "The reason for my calling is that we are running a great special on [sales pitch, price etc] - do you think you would be interested?"

THEM: "Sorry ***, I don't think I am"

ME: "Ok, is there any particular reason?" (Three No's! We had to get three no's)

THEM: "No, no reason... but can I ask you a question?"

ME: "Sure"

THEM: "When you die will you be accepted into the kingdom of heaven?"

And the Jehovah's Witness bit comes about. Only one thing worse than a over-the-phone sales man... a Christian selling his wares.

Re:101 Way to Waste Their Time

[Joe Tie.]

Very true. I always get a little annoyed reading stories like this, when they turn to harrasing the telemarketers. It's not like anyone sets out in life with the goal of telemarketing. Yes, I find it annoying getting telemarketing calls. But I imagine as agrivating as it is for me to get a call, every moment of their lives at work, every day, over and over again has to be far far worse. If somone can't have a little compassion for people in this kind of bad situation I think getting bugged by telemarketers is a pretty just payback.

Re:101 Way to Waste Their Time

[Kintanon]

As a former telemarketer I can tell you that the highlight of my night was usually when someone did something like the above poster described. Anything witty, funny, or interesting was a great break from the normal routine of calls. And we get paid pretty reasonably in addition to our comission. So don't feel about about making our night more interesting.

Kintanon
P.S. My favorite phone call is still the one where I called up and asked for some girl, and the guy who answered the phone responds with, 'She's busy sucking my dick right now.'

Stealing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that stealing from the telemarketers though? By not letting them call you or avoiding their cold calls, you're essentially stealing their revenue. This is no better than not watching commercials on TV. These people have to make money you know. Quit being so blind and greedy and do what I do, sign up and get as many calls as possible! I LOVE HELPING!

Missouri's no call list web site sign up

[bleeeeck]

Here is Missouri's no call list sign up web site.

German telemarketing laws work

[benb]

In Germany, telemarketing is forbidden. A company may only call you, if you have an existing business relationship with them. (And you can terminate that relationsship and demand that they delete data about you.) I.e. opt-in, not opt-out. That's IMO the only sane way.

It works - I don't remember *ever* being called by telemarketers. And that although I am listed in the phone book.

BTW: In Germany, all my data belongs to me, too.
BTW2: It does not work for faxes. I made the error to enlist my number in the fax phone book and get spammed by fax about once or twice a week.

Some of what I said might be wrong.

Re:German telemarketing laws work

[Sircus]

You should really explain this to Ruhr-Nachrichten, who call me about every 6 months (maybe more often, I'm rarely at home) despite the fact that

a) I've never bought a copy of their newspaper
b) As an English person for whom reading German is a chore, not enjoyment, I've no desire to buy a copy of their newspaper
c) I have no other prior business relationship with them.

Granted, they're the only people who've ever called, but it's at least one example of German telemarketing laws not working.

Too Bad this isn't National

[parp]

I am elated that certain states are stepping up to the plate to regulate telemarketers who are clearly showing they have no morals and need regulation. The regulations in California and New York are great! What disappoints me is this isn't national.

<story from hell> In January I dropped MCI as my long distance carrier in favor of Working Assets (a company with morals!). Well despite telling MCI 3 times I had changed phone companies, they kept billing me. I called and complained and they told me it was taken care of.

Then one morning in mid April I got an electronic voice call from MCI telling me to call this 800# immediately to resolve a problem. I called and they were still looking for me to pay for service I didn't get (bill totaling $5.12). I of course had to go through customer service transfer hell, and talk to half a dozen clueless people over the course of 2 hours. Finally I got one rep with a clue who said he cleared up the problem.

Not 5 minutes later I got another electronic voice call - call MCI now or else! I called, 2 reps said I still owed money, their supervisor said I didn't owe, and their system was updating. Well, for the next 5 days I continued to get electronic voice calls from MCI every 2 hours from 8am to 10pm demanding I call this 800# to take care of my problem.

Obviously I was really pissed, not just about this over billing, but these damn calls that wouldn't go away. So after 4 calls I called my local police department and talked to a detective. I was Furious to learn Massachusetts has No laws regulating telemarketers, auto dialers, or electronic voice calls. Despite agreeing with me that these calls are harassing, he said there is nothing he could do, even having these recorded messages on my answering machine.

So after 5 days the calls finally stopped and MCI credited me which is nice, but geesh! </story from hell>

Please make these laws National!

Oregon

[Phroggy]

ornocall.com, I signed up last month. Won't take effect until the next quarter (June), when telemarketers receive the new lists.

Re:Telemarketer blocking devices

[interiot]

Some usenet threads discussing use of the SIT Tone to attempt to trick computerized calling systems:

• Do Zappers really work with telemarketers? (15 posts)
• Telezapper easy to defeat? (14 posts)

There are many more. I'm just trying to give an alternate perspective because IMHO, local news places tend to be more interested in sensationalized exposés than in subtle details.

Anyway, you can just add that sit.wav to the start of your answering machine message for free, so it doesn't hurt to see for yourself.

Telezapper

[mrsam]

I've heard commercials on TV lately advertising products that you can put between the jack and the phone that actually block telemarketers. Does anyone have any experience with these devices? DO they work? Which is the best one to get?

There are several brand names these gizmos are sold under, the most common one is called a "Telezapper". The way they work is that every time you pick up the phone the device sends out that three-note high-pitched tone you sometimes hear when you misdial and reach an invalid number, or you get an "all circuits are busy" recording.

It's called a SIT tone - "Special Information Tone" - and is used by the phone company to indicate that the dialed number cannot be reached for some reason. It's actually not used in most places since that kind of information is now transmitted out-of-band with the voice call, but is used for compatibility reasons in case the call originates from some ancient phone switch in Antarctica which does not receive out-of-band signalling, and listens to the voice path to figure out what happened to the phone call.

The idea behind the telezapper is that many telemarketing calls are robo-dialed, and the telemarketer is put on the line only after you pick up the phone and answer (which is why many times you get a short delay after you say hello, before some sleazebag starts yammering into your ear trying to peddle some junk). If the telemarketers' dialer detects that the call didn't go through, it never even goes to a human. The idea is that if the robodialer hears a SIT it will assume that the phone number is invalid, and the phone number will be automatically removed from the telemarketer's phone list.

In any case, that's how it's supposed to work in theory. I wouldn't know, since I'm in NY and I don't get phonespam no mo'. :-) However I do know this: if you use that device you may experience occasional problems receiving calls from pay-phones. Many privately-owned payphones (you know, mostly the weird looking ones owned by some private phone operator that charges $5 per minute) are not properly provisioned to process out-of-band call signaling, and the circuitry in the payphone listens to the voice line in order to figure out what happened to the dialed call (busy, ringing, no answer, human speech, etc...) If the payphone hears a SIT it will disconnect the line even though the call will actually go through.

"Why can't we all just get along?"

[Observer]

FWIW, here in Switzerland you can ask for your phone directory entry (dead tree and online versions) to be flagged with an asterisk, which means "no advertising, thanks". Do this, and the lists that the directory company sells for telemarketing don't contain your number, and - mostly - if someone calls you despite this they're sensible enough to back off immediately when you point out that your number is flagged in this way. There is no charge for this flagging, btw.

"No advertising" stickers on your physical mailbox are - mostly - also respected here.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that both of these mechanisms are merely advisory with no legal sanctions behind them. Companies operating in Switzerland seem to have worked out that if people signal that they don't want junk mail and junk faxes and junk phone calls then it's a bad idea to irritate them by ignoring these signals. Of course, in Switzerland the citizenry gets to vote directly on issues at all levels of government from local community up to national, and if telemarketeers and their like really pissed off the general public they might find that the federal government would be instructed by voters to Do Something About It.

I've had great luck with the MO No Call list!

[Mustang Matt]

I've had very few calls. The ones I still get are from Charities such as the Missouri Highway Patrol wanting me to donate money to them... (Someone explain that to me? I pay them to get a sticker in hopes of a higher probability of getting out of tickets. I would invest but I don't put stickers on my cars.)

I did have one telemarketer call me and luckily I had the No Call list rules right next to me. I collected the correct information and submitted it to the Attorney General and he got busted!

The biggest problem I've been having is junk faxes. I probably only get one a month, but they are annoying as heck! They call at 2-4am and keep calling until they get a fax machine to pick up.

Then they're virtually untraceable. You call the 800 numbers on them and it goes to a call center with a bunch of phone monkies that claim to know nothing.

--Worked In Telemarketing--

[ImaLamer]

You must understand that phone numbers on some systems are just sequentially dialed - yes, we used war dialing.

But the first rule to cold call dialing is to NEVER (yes, bold and italics are necessary) use the information provided by whomever the list is bought from - even the phone company.

While I know that your problem was with a company which didn't take care of their lists (lead-lists should be taken care of very carefully), the phone company could also help by letting the company know who has changed their numbers or moved.

Lead lists are a whole 'nother thing. If you have a list of leads or subscribers, etc, then you absolutely need to take care of those lists.

If you don't, there is your sales force.

Stalked by Telemarketers

[bubblegoose]

I was stalked by these bastards and I learned you must to say the magic words:
"Put me on your do not call list, and do not distribute my information".
After that ask them if they have one (they are required by law to keep one)and if they understood you.
By ALWAYS saying that to the bastards I finally got the calls to stop, no special devices, no being a prick. I might get one call a month.

A great resource for this is www.junkbusters.com

Re:Military Telemarketers

[stinkydog]

Cure for military telemarketers:

1. Answer Phone
2. Speak in the thickest lisp you can without laughing
3. Tell the recruiter that you are becoming a male ballet dancer or working in a beauty salon "doing hair"
4. Calls from all branches stop immediatly

SD

try the DMA's opt-out

[jat2]

The DMA (Direct Marketing Association) has their own opt-out for mail, phone and email. In my experience, it works quite well. You can get more information from the following URL: http://www.dmaconsumers.org/privacy.html . It generally takes 3 months to work, but I found that it works best if you can get on the list before your new info has a chance to circulate.

I also found that asking credit card companies to put you on their "do not call unless someone stole my card" list at the same time as you give them your new info allows you to avoid that whole "4--6 weeks" before it takes effect line they give you.

Using these two strategies, I have not received any phonecalls or mail from commercial telemarketers in almost three years. Charities are another story.

marketer was fined for call me!

[jageryager]

I'm on the NY State Do not call list. A while back I got a call. I took down their information, and filed a compaint with the state.

About 6 months later New York State sent me a letter telling me that the company that had called me had been fined $11,000 for the 11 complaints that had been filed against it!

As others have posted above, the Do not Call law does work.

How to deal with telemarketers!

[DiveX]

Don't just make some causal 'place me on your do-not-call list' statement and hang up...mkae them follow through. The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 has multiple requirements that would interest readers.
1. The use of prerecorded ads is illegal under this act (with the exception of emergency calls [i.e. evacuation notices]).
2. Upon request, they *must* send you a written copy of their DNR policy.
3. They must train their people in the use of the DNR policy and the implementation of it. e.g. If you ask for a written copy of the policy and they say one does not exist or they know nothing about it, then that can be construed as 2 violations of this federal law.

The actual numbers for those interested in reading up on this is 'Title 47 USC Section 227' and 47 CFR 64.1200.

The great thing about this law, unlike most anti-spam bills, is that it allows private right of action against the telemarketer. That's right, if they violate these rules, you can take them to small claims court. If you tell them to not call you again and they do so again within the next 10 years, that is another $500 violation. If you can demonstrate that they willfully violated this act (i.e. called you several time or used a clearly illegal prerecorded message), then you can ask for triple damages! Other things to remember, there is NO grace period for adding your name to the list. Even if they say it will 'take 8-10 days to completely remove the number' and call again the next day, that is a violation of the federal law.

The FTC is finally working on creating a national DNR list as directed by Congress when the TCPA was passed.

Do not just hang up or ignore these people. Know your rights and exercise them. Keep a log of the calls and get names and numbers. If they call once more it probably isn't worth it, but if they call more than that, then you have case history and the law to ack you up and can easily get a judgement (although collecting is always a different story). One story I remember from my research is a company in NJ was making calls for GM in Ohio. The guy went to court and got a judgement, but the firm in NJ said they wouldn't pay since they were in different states. The guy found that Ohio has a law stating that sompanies that do not pay legal judgements cannot conduct business in the state. The guy wrote the president of GM and said if they ever wanted to sell cars in that state to pay up...a check was sent less than 5 days later.

Many states have their own list, however I am not aware if any of the states allow for private action. Any legal action usually must be done by the state. Get on your state's list. It will help aid you if you persue action under the TCPA.

Here are some links for those interested in reading up:

http://consumer.net/telemarketing/tcpainfo.asp

http://www.private-citizen.com/ (private group dedicated to ant-telemarketing intrusions)

http://www.epic.org/privacy/telemarketing/

http://www.dianamey.com/ (story of one woman's fight against the system..to date she has collected over $30,000 since 1999 including $10,000 from Discover Card.