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Debian And WineX
fdsa writes "After a heated debate, and under some pressure by TransGaming, an 'intent to package' WineX from sourceforge CVS for (non-free) Debian has been withdrawn. The message provides a good summary of the recent Wine chaos, and notes how WineX is effectively under a different license than stated. Here's a mail from their CEO Gavriel State on the issue."
Amusingly, Gentoo Linux users can install WineX with a single command. It is packaged (I assume) from the Sourceforge CVS, and given that Gentoo compiles everything from scratch, conveniently sidesteps the whole distributing binaries thing.
By the way, for fellow Gentoo users, a 2002/05/11 ebuild is currently available by "# emerge winex". Check the package list for the most recent date.
If you want it to be truely free, use the GPL license. If you don't care, then use the BSD, Artistic, X11 or what-have-you. This is a good example of what can happen.
This is why I bought a PlayStation 2 -- NOTHING is free, and I don't expect any of it to be, so I'm not disappointed. I can just sit down and PLAY GAMES without making moral decisions.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Transgaming was promising to give back their sourcecode ton Wine. They've since changed their policy on that and any mention of merging with the wine tree after meeting their targets has been silently dropped from their website.
Does a proprietry WineX threaten Linux in any way? No not really. It is a system that allows proprietry windows software to run on open source/free Linux. It hardly matters quite where the free/prop. divide is drawn either above or below the middleware - the end result is that the user is running is a non-free application - although things might be a bit confused if they start sticking prop. kernel modules into Linux - but then again, there is the precedence of VMware et al for this.
So there is nothing legally wrong with what Transgaming are doing. I say let them carry on - but just clear up the confusion and plainly state that WineX is a proprietry system. If anyone's nose is out of joint then it was Wine's fault for ever being under the BSD liscense - which it isn't now.
Of course Transgamings Business Model is wrong. They should simply re-sell Windows games - either to Windows users or to Linux users bundling WineX and some installation glue a la codeweavers.
If you want it to be truely free, use the GPL license. If you don't care, then use the BSD, Artistic, X11 or what-have- you. This is a good example of what can happen.
I think you don't understand.
To be 'truely' free you should use BSD license. It basically gives your code away.
Those of us who use GPL do it to get back some fruits of our hands. I WANT that any of my modified code will come back to me.
I think BSD people are very generous, but I personally don't think I could just give my work away the way they do.
fucktard is a tenderhearted description
This just illustrates why its important to understand the license governing a project before contributing to it. It is also the reason why the OSI keeps a list of approved licenses.
If you didn't take time to understand the license before contributing to the project, you can't complain that you don't like the result.
-- Button up, your ignorance is showing
That's exactly what will happen to Wine because they refuse to support businesses, and refuse to recognize the potential for the project they ALL inherited.
There are HUGE issues that need to be addresses that will take a LOT of time. Only businesses can help make that happen before 2010.
Remember, we're talking about a 10 year old Alpha project.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
They do distribute debian DEB packages along with the RPM's, but of course, these are the full, stable releases, which include non-free code like copy protection, and which you must be a subscriber to download. They're worried that if Debian distributes the compiled CVS version and calls it WineX, people who install that package may think that's all there is, without being aware of the subscription service or the extra features possible. Personally, I agree with them, and don't see what all the fuss is about. I don't see a 'big bad company' trying to muscle out the 'little guy', I see a group trying to support open source development financially, and trying to protect their interests in doing so. If you read Gavriel State's response, I think their position is perfectly reasonable.
I think that most people here are misunderstanding the issue, and as a long WineX subscriber, I feel that I need to clarify.
:).
WineX has _always_ been available in source form for free (meaning you can get it even if you aren't a subscriber) if you are willing and able to pull it from their CVS servers. What has never been free is their compiled code, in which they add such goodies such as safedisc and securerom support (which of course, can't be open sourced, because WineX licensed it from the companies that created the copy protection)
What Transgaming is asking is that distributions don't package the free version of their source as a package, so people don't get the impression that when they try to run new game x with copy protection that it doesn't work with the WineX period, and not actually go and check transgamings site and realize that they need to buy the commercial version. I would hope more from the average linux user, but I can see their point.
Besides, people have been tolerating this behaviour from the MPlayer project for a long time, so I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't agree with their reasons, then exercise your right to choose and don't use the product
That does sound nice but a software project is a dynamic thing, evolving over time. Your scenerio is static, a happy snapshot where you're giving your code away and all is nice.
Lets look at the dynamic:
1.) Start project, license it as BSD
2.) Writing code, everything is nice.
3.) Code becomes popular, sizable group of developers gather.
4.) The vampires show up. Act just like regular users at first.
5.) Vampires start making making requests for you to change certain things, so their fork will work better. They promise to release patche sback to you.
6.) More vampires show up, make the same demands and promises as the proginal vampire.
7.) Your mailing list starts filling up with requests from developers who think it would be best for the project if you cooperated with vampire(x).
8.) None of the vampires have kept their promises. DEvelopers for you project are working on vampire forks.
9.) Your project is no longer popular because it has fewer features than the vampire forks. AFter all the vampire forks will always be their efforts+theirs. you can never keep up.
10.) People on your mailing list start to bitch and moan about not having feature X that they saw in vampire distro.
11.)Vampires continue to orbit. Plucking any new idea you have and not giving anything in return. Project dies a slow death and you get tired of working with it because it's not fun anymore.