FBI Carnivore Screwup Destroys E-Mail Evidence

An Anonymous Coward writes: "The FBI apparently used Carivore in an attempt to collect information on Osama bin Laden't network. Unfortunately they screwed up and collected information on "non-covered targets" (*ahem*, isn't this the sort of thing we weren't supposed to worry about...). Then the FBI tech was "so upset" that he destroyed ALL of the collected email, not only the information that was not covered by the warrant. Here is the SF Gate Story and EPIC's press release."

Comments

Carnivore Attacks Gaming Websites Too

[Jabberjab]

Is Carnivore still around? I heard they were tracking gaming websites, particularly those that involve terrorists and counter-terrorists. Counterstrike is not only the number one online game right now, but there are many websites revolving around it. For example, NerdTreeHouse is a huge haven for Counterstrike fans and I heard the FBI requested information from them. I'm not sure what happened.

FBI's "outdated" computer systems?

[visualight]

Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were expected to outline high-profile changes Wednesday at the FBI's headquarters, including closer ties to the CIA and an overhaul of the FBI's outdated computer systems.

Does anyone believe for a second that the FBI's computer systems are outdated? Sounds like a spin job to me....

Later watch the FBI try to attribute their missed tip-offs prior to 9/11 to slow computers. They'll have all kinds of "contributing" factors that'll spread the blame out thin enough so no one loses their job.

Perhaps...

[TibbonZero]

Perhaps this can be a fighting point for us against the carnavore. This proves that they are collecting the wrong stuff. I would have liked for them to find Bin Laden, and the FBI can go through my Akai mailing list and Spam that I recieve if that will catch him, because I don't really do anything personal that isn't encrypted heavily.

I wonder if this will be the evidence that they need to make them stop using it.

Re:Perhaps...

[Tazzy531]

That's good and all when you can trust the people that are doing this. But we have seen through history and in recent weeks (FBI agents indicted on Insider Trading) What's next? What if the FBI sold your information to a competitor company (like the CIA telling Boeing about a secret deal that Airbus, Boeing's competitor, was discussing with Saudi Arabia, allowing Boeing to beat their offer)

But if you let them read your emails, you must surely be willing to allow them to listen to your phone calls. If that's the case, you must surely support the government putting camera's everwhere. Since, I mean, you have nothing to hide.

See the problem is not that you don't have anything to hide, but the American system is based on freedom for all individuals. In that, everyone should be treated innocent until proven guilty. That's the basis of this entire system.

Destroyed?

[mrbuckles]

The article actually says that the collected information was not destroyed -- citing an unnamed source. One would wonder with the backups a system like that would (should) have that destroying the evidence would be a lengthy job and may not have been done completely.

The article also notes people who have had their e-mail unintentionally collected are entitled to be informed. Can't wait to see if that happens...

Re:No backups?

[ParticleGirl]

They just aren't advertising backups. The memo said that the agent was so upset that she deleted the email. An agent contributed my favorite quote in the article:

A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tuesday night that the e-mails were not destroyed. The official did not elaborate or try to reconcile the statement with the memo.

Yeah, I'm sure there are backups. I'm sure the FBI is avoiding confirming that there are records somewhere of emails captured from "non-target" subjects, while trying to cover its ass in re: losing evidence.

Re:better than nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone wanted a secret Email box to recieive messages, anyone could just create a hotmail account like "hjh456@hotmail.com" - one for each day's use. There is NO WAY carnivore will capture that.

Floppy disks with PGP keys are used to decrypt the message.

These accounts could be setup WEEKS ago, one for each day. They would be un-traceable.

From one who knows...

Forensic Data Recovery

[darthBear]

Assuming that the emails really were deleted and all the backups were also cleared out, what is to stop them from recovering the data using their forensic data recovery techniques. Comerical teams are amazing at this and I would have to assume the FBI is at least as good. How lost is this data really?

How did it happen?

[ClickNMix]

All the issues about privacy with the FBI and the likes aside. I'm pretty worried about the fact that someone, even an FBI tech can delete the contents of a sniff.

Sure, there are -probably- back-ups. But then if the tech makes those backups, whats to say he didnt delete them as well?

Personally, it sounds more like a case of someone trying to abuse a tool they have access to (Tech sneeks a look at other peoples emails) and then messing up covering their tracks.

Then he avoids getting attacked by putting a moral spin on it, and comming out a hero. (maybe)