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FBI Carnivore Screwup Destroys E-Mail Evidence
An Anonymous Coward writes: "The FBI apparently used Carivore in an attempt to collect information on Osama bin Laden't network. Unfortunately they screwed up and collected information on "non-covered targets" (*ahem*, isn't this the sort of thing we weren't supposed to worry about...). Then the FBI tech was "so upset" that he destroyed ALL of the collected email, not only the information that was not covered by the warrant. Here is the SF Gate Story and EPIC's press release."
The guy goofed. What's nice to read is that he was upset about collecting information on innocent Americans, and that he deleted it. I would have been more upset if he did something with the information. Could you imagine the slashdot headline for *that*?
Is it just me or does the FBI have the worst copy machines in existance?
::i visited slashdot and all i got was this lousy sig::
As much as I've been following the War on Terrorism, I'm not sure how high this registers on the Need-To-Coverup basis. I suppose we'll find out if/when the Pentagon issues another Emergency Alert to distract the public from how bad an issue it is...
Seriously, it's a pattern. The U.S. just took out a village by accident? Probably didn't hear much about it because everybody's talking about Tora Bora (ever wonder how everybody knows about that location and yet nobody knows what's been accomplished there?) The U.S. bombs 4 Canadians into smithereens? Two days later, a 13-state warning is issued saying that banking outlets are targetted. (Of course, Ashcroft denies that people should avoid banking that day...) Bush actually had information on the attacks before Sept 11th? Whoops, can't talk about that now, because the BIGGEST TERRORIST WARNING EVER where this time they're targeting the STATUE OF LIBERTY!!!!!
Last time I saw, Statue of Liberty's still standing. But that's okay. It makes me feel better knowing that whenever we start thinking for ourselves, the Pentagon's there to put everything back into perspective...
Got war?
I'm confused. Your point is that /. users would add 'terrorist-like' tags to the end of thier emails to over fill a parser device that saved all suspect email. Your trying to say that because some people might have done this it's the faults of lamers who trade p0rn?
/. readers do *not* trade files, or engage in warez activity. IRC is the forum for those clowns, slashdot has a fairly high level of 19-28yr. old people in the IT/tech industry, with another segment of 'nerdy' teenagers who are fairly clean. I'm not going to deny that there are some lamers here, but the general populus they are not.
I don't think this argument can hold any weight. I honestly think that the majority of
Before 9/11 carnivore was such an absurd system that it was absurdity. I do not agree to any form of blanket-wiretap, if such a tap existed, I would have my telephone lines encrypted. I do not have anything to hide, BUT they do not have any reason to know that. I severly doubt that anyone who has any respect in this world would dare to put terrorist-like messages in thier emails post 9/11, it's simply not kosher in this era of post-crisis nationalism.
I would guess that carnivore instead accidently collected *all* emails/communications that passed through it, weither they were the target or not. This was not the intended behavor, so they made a big deal about it and tried to cover it up. Typical behavior (I'm not for/against it, I'm just stating this is likley what happeend).
I have no objection to the type of wiretap they imposed against mafiaboy (he could only get one of a set of ip's, they tapped his phone line, very specific packet sniffing), I am against this sort of blanket 'big brother is watching' actions.
Before you reply, I'd like to make it very clear, I am 100% for selective wiretaps with a judges approval. I am not for the ability to bypass the judge, and I am not in any way supportive of the police acting in thier own authority when it comes to extended spying.
I live in a giant bucket.
Not to bash law enforcement, but those among them who aren't completely ignorant of technology often know just enough to be dangerous.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
The best part of this article is the fact that an FBI agent was upset at collecting email that wasn't supposed to be collected.
Whether they have backups, whether they collected the information or not, it points out the fact that individuals in the FBI are concerned about privacy issues as much as many of us are.
Amendment IV of the U.S. Constitution: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Notice that the Constitution does not say that illegal searches may be performed as long as any resulting evidence is not used against the persons being illegally searched. It says that it shall not happen. This interception of mail was not just a violation of federal wiretap law, it was a violation of the Bill of Rights. We are supposedly fighting a "war on terrorism" to protect our way of life, but that way of life is rooted in our Constitution. The only way to win the hearts and minds of the rest of the world is to stick to our principles and abide by the highest law of the land which is the U.S. Constitution.
It's not easy to speak out about what you believe in, but if more people did, the world would be a better place.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Who modded this up as interesting?
This is the sort of ignorance that should have been completely destroyed by 9/11. Why do you not believe that the FBI has severely outdated machines? Because the typical Slashdotter has an extremely distorted perception of the scope and extent of governmental power and efficacy. When the CIA starts up a venture capital firm to fund technology ideas to jump start itself in playing catch-up with the private sector, that says something. When the NSA goes on 60 Minutes and says "we're friggin way behind," that speaks volumes. The government USED to have the biggest and the best. Today, the private sector, as far as information technology goes, is WAY ahead of the agencies.
Remember, when Clinton entered office in 93, there WERE NO COMPUTERS in the White House! They still USED TELETYPES. In 93!
Derek
so the privacy issue of the government reading all our emails is completely superseded by the terrorism threat?
is that a foregone conclusion now?
The scary thing is I can see the statements being fashioned in the halls of justice right now:
"You know, we would have intercepted this communication and 9/11 could have been averted, if only we hadn't had our hands tied by these ranting leftist civil liberterians. Thousands died because we were afraid of what would have happened if we accidently picked up on innocent emails making plans for the holiday, or exchanging recipes. Now that we know what the cost of those silly liberties are, I think we all realize that 9/11 was too high a price to pay."
Please exchange your constitutional rights for security. Before it is too late!!!
Personally, I think we won't solve anything as long as we focus on the symptoms rather than the cause of these problems.
Cheers