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SuSE Denies UnitedLinux Per-Seat License Model
m0RpHeus writes "According to Linux Today, SuSE is denying per seat licensing for United Linux. `We really don't plan any per-seat licensing for UnitedLinux,' said SuSE's US Director of Sales Holger Dyroff. UnitedLinux, it seems is divided on this issue."
per-seat licensing
:)
Don't sit down while using it, remove the seats from the pc room, and you're done!
667 The Neighbour of the Beast
As I said in a post to the previous related slashdot discussion; Ransom Love doesn't understand Open Source PR. His mouth gets the Open Source community to hate him each time he opens it in public. Different spin on his previous "no binaries!" comment and nobody would be upset.
Ransom Love does not understand Open Source PR, and it would be better for everyone if he were not so press-hungry. SUSE has a much better spin on essentially the same facts, and understand the Open Source community is not just a place to leech code from in order to turn a buck. SUSE understands to give/take relationship, Calera, specifically Rasom Love doesn't get it.
Next time you read a quote from Ransom love, understand two things:
1. He doesn't speak for his partners (SUSE/Turbo Linux in this case), even though he will make is sound like he is.
2. He doesn't understand Open Source PR and will be needlessly sticking his foot in his mouth...that's just what he does.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
I see a similar situation here, and I have to say that I really do feel for the decision makers in this area. I mean, everyone has come to see RedHat as "bad" b/c they decided to make a profit on "free" software. It's got to be tough to decide where to draw the line. Do you really want to alienate an entire user group?
--- I'll have a Bloody Mary, a Steak Sandwich and a uh Steak Sandwich.
UnitedLinux is the base distro. Suse, Caldera, etc. are going to be *basing* their distro on that. They are not going to release a UnitedLinux distro. They will release a distro, "Powered by UnitedLinux. Each company can decide their licensing terms themselves.
If Caldera wants to put some extra propritary software in their distro and use per seat licensing, then they are free to do that. Suse has just said that they will not be doing that.
UnitedLinux is IMHO a good thing! They are using and selling free software - they aren't breaking any licenses or anything like that. They are *the good guys* trying to earn a bit of money to stay in business. Is that such a bad thing?
Okay, maybe someone pointed this out already, but how is this divided? UnitedLinux is NOT ONE distribution. It's a standard base that several distros will be based on. Just because Caldera doesn't understand the market and wants to compete with Red Hat using per seat licenses doesn't mean that SuSE, TurboLinux, Conectiva, and any others who join in the future have to follow this madness. They will STILL be SEPERATE distributions each with their own licenses and quirks. They'll just have some common components that will allow interoperability. This wouldn't be news if so many people would just quit jumping to conclusions about this project before much information is available.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
This has nothing to do with the UnitedLinux Group being 'divided.' If you would actually READ their website, you'd understand that they are still SEPERATE companies and will still have SEPERATE products each with their own licenses and 'added value' content. The amount of FUD being spread about this project before it even really starts simply amazes me. Can we at least wait until there is actually a product out before passing judgement? Most of the bad press has nothing to do with SuSE, TurboLinux, or Conectiva, but is instead based on Caldera's plans. Don't mix up Ransom Love's messed up business ideas for the UnitedLinux business plan. They're seperate.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Judging from what the United Linux partners have said, there wouldn't be any restriction on SuSE saying this. As far as I understand, SuSE, Caldera and the rest will sell distros which are "powered" by United Linux. The idea being, presumably, that software updates/packages for one UL-based distro will be compatible with all UL-based distros. However, the companies will all have independent contents, pricing, marketing etc. Therefore, SuSE is just saying what their pricing approach will be. What SuSE chooses to say about selling their UL-powered distro is no business of the other partners.
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
MandrakeSoft, which more and more appears to be now #2 in term of installed user base, is the biggest defender of Free Software after Debian.
May I say bulls**t... I'd like to remind you of how Mandrake came to be.. They where RedHat+KDE ans why didnt RH already integrate KDE? Because it was based on non-free software.
There are in my opinion only two major distribution that are true defenders of Free Software, RedHat and Debian. (Well, there's also Gentoo, but its in a class of its own).
Mandrake is just like TurboLinux, Suse and Caldera... They are doing nothing innovative, they are just trying to survive because they didnt move fast enough out of the "sell boxes" market.. Which was also rh's market a few years back (but they moved to offer much more because its a fairly limited market.
In my opinion, Red Hat is lucky because they can stay open and make real business, MandrakeSoft is *extremely* innovative in inventing a real business model for Free Software while being a fervent defender of its rules.
RedHat is not lucky, they are very very good. They have gone from one profitable business model to another when the market changed. They have been very well managed since the beginning and that's the reason they are #1. As for Mandrake, they tried to follow in RedHat footsteps, but following is never a good idea... So at least after a few years, out of desesparation they tried that Club thing.. Its corporate charity, its not a business model!
Caldera and TurboLinux are already almost dead... And Suse, if they dont play well, they will follow. Here at work, we had a bunch of Suse fans who just said "Suse 8.0 sucks, its the worst linux distro that I have seen in years"...
Now for innovation, see Gentoo and Debian
For good business, see Redhat
The rest is crap
>May I say bulls**t... I'd like to remind you of how Mandrake >came to be.. They where RedHat+KDE ans why didnt RH >already integrate KDE? Because it was based on non-free >software.
It was because Red Hat has started to finance GNOME before, and they wanted to kill KDE/Qt at the time. And can I remind you that Red Hat included KDE/Qt early in 1999 _long time before Qt became GPLed?
>There are in my opinion only two major distribution that are >true defenders of Free Software, RedHat and Debian.
Red Hat patents...
>Mandrake is just like TurboLinux, Suse and Caldera... They >are doing nothing innovative, they are just trying to survive >because they didnt move fast enough out of the "sell boxes" >market.. Which was also rh's market a few years back (but >they moved to offer much more because its a fairly limited >market.
Mandrake is the most innovative Linux distribution for a long time: they have introduced many new great tools such as remote updates, the best Linux installer available, security levels, automatic hardware configurator, and so many things. Most those things have been introduced in Linux distros after Mandrake started to introduce them.
I want to remind you that Mandrake started from nothing (not even a company) three years ago, long time after SuSE and Red Hat, and now they are #2, with more users than SuSE + Caldera + Turbo Linux. It's not financial power to market their product, they don't have.
Hey, I made it first. :)
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
The official line from the FSF is that the "correct" way to make money off of free software is by charging for the services surrounding it. That used to include charging someone to install and configure systems. Isn't that what YaST does?
It's starting to seem like all the "services" that can be profitably charged for can eventually be automated. Once these services become programs, suddenly it's no longer OK to charge for them.
If the FSF got its wish and non-free software could never be shipped or used alongside Free software, the companies charging for services would have no incentive to automate these services. One of the selling points of Free software is that it doesn't require as much service. Barring non-free software from working with Free software provides a disincentive to automation.
Nope, no sig
I'm not part of UnitedLinux, but this is my take: UnitedLinux is a brand. It is a consortium of several companies, current Caldera, SuSE, Conectiva, and TurboLinux. These, and any other future member companies/organizations, will each produce their own distribution under the UnitedLinux brand, i.e.- there will be SuSE United Linux, and Conectiva United Linux, etc. All these UnitedLinux branded distros will adhere to a set of standards defined by United Linux (ie- the member distros). These standards will include the Linux Standard Base, kernel release, libraries, filesystem layout, etc. Each distro will then take this UnitedLinux base system and add their own specialties to it. The UnitedLinux base system alone (not SuSE United Linux, or Conectiva's United Linux, just the base) should be a properly working system, but without a lot of bells and whistles. Just the basic foundation for a distro. It will be distributed in source format at least. Because all these UnitedLinux member distros are based on the same core, applications should the same on any of them. This makes development easier since ISV's don't need to target four or five different distros. This is a good thing. The resulting "aim" of UnitedLinux is then to provide a standard base that is really implemented by several major distributions. It's not necessarily to target RedHat. RedHat can join UnitedLinux, and they may, who knows? But the real purpose is to provide some standards across distros so that it's easier to develop for and consquently market Linux. Sorry this is so long, but so many people seem to misunderstand UnitedLinux.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
SuSE, Caldera, TurboLinux... Their deep wish would actually be sell their products "a la Microsoft" with one license per seat, without providing ISO images and so on. They actually have a very "proprietary" ideal, so they try to offer a not too bad image to the Linux community while acting against its ideals in reality.
I don't work for SuSe but consider it rather slanderous (or is that libelous) for you to claim that they are trying to get a free ride out of the Linux community and usurp the GPL by being proprietary when they have explicitly stated that this is not the case. I can believe that Caldera would be in support of per seat licensing since this doesn't differ much from how Ransom Love has described his business plans but to simply paint other companies that contribute to the Open Source community with the same brush because they want to provide a Linux Standard is extremely unkind.
In my opinion, Red Hat is lucky because they can stay open and make real business, MandrakeSoft is *extremely* innovative in inventing a real business model for Free Software while being a fervent defender of its rules. And SuSE, Caldera... didn't understand anything to Linux/Free Software and are going to be banned by the Linux community, and see their revenues decrease.
It is rather sad that such a glorified troll is currently rated +5. All the companies you mention are trying to make money while giving you Free Software. Quite frankly, people like you are the ones that give Slashdot a bad name and make it seem like the Open Source community is a bunch of unfriendly freeloaders.
By the way, most reckonings indicate that MandrakeSoft is just barely doing well and although Red Hat's financials are good, they are one of the few software-based company to be able to make a living off of Free Software. Even then they've been on the ropes a bit, I don't see why people should begrudge others for trying to find a way to provide Free Software and still make a living or is it that you'd prefer that all the companies you just besmirched created proprietary software?
How to create a profitable business from Free Software is still a black art and in many cases may be impossible but while we are still trying to figure that out I don't think that it is fair to malign the people who are simply trying to make a living while contributing to Free Software.
Four Linux companies that haven't done anything in a long time (Caldera, TurboLinux? Are they kidding??)
.99 drivers, SuSE 8 also has an extremely customized version of YaST2 which is amazing. (I couldn't care less that it's not free). Also, Caldera & TurboLinux both have a very loyal userbase in their respective locales.
SuSE hasn't done anything in a long time??! Nonsense. On top of being the first distro with KDE3 and Alsa
re ganging up to try to take on RedHat
If you read the original press release, you'd see that the companies involved in United Linux extended an offer to Redhat (as well as any other distro that is interested) to join the effort. This is not a direct assault on Redhat, it's an effort to get a standard, easily supportable distribution.
but the fact remains that they're still four dying companies
SuSE is dying?? Really? You might want to tell that to IBM and the German Government.
In my opinion, UnitedLinux is an effort to focus on the LSB, to make an easily-supportable version of Linux that works the same regardless of the localized vendor you pick. If they do it right, I think it will definitely be a Good Thing (TM).
SuSE wrote the (first? only?) USB kernel drivers.
SuSE contributes heavily to ALSA.
SuSE wrote many XFree86 servers for some of the less popular cards from S3 and trident.
SuSE creates integrated E-mail server, collaboration, and database products that are more than just some slapped-together GPL code with an installer.
You talk about innovative? Free ride my ass. Do a little research.
Where has anyone acually involved in the UnitedLinux project actually said that there will be a per-seat license?!? All I've seen is a somewhat vague statement in the UnitedLinux FAQ which could be interpreted as allowing for the possibility that there might be a few UnitedLinux distros using a somewhat non-standard license. Somebody mentioned it on /. wondering what they meant by it, and the Chicken Littles around here latched on to it a cried that the sky is falling. RMS heard the screams and, without bothering to check if the sky was actually comming down, issued forth his opinion on the matter. Apparantly the /. editors haven't bothered to look up either, since they keep posting stories about this totally unsubstantiated rumor!
The fact that not a single one of these stories or opinions has been able to find a quote which substantiates this rumor is quite telling.
Sure, Ransom Love is an idiot, but come on people! He already got smacked down for per-seat licensing once, is he really dumb enough to try it again? Are the rest of UnitedLinux dumb enough to go along with such a stupid idea after seeing what happened to Caldera? I very much doubt that. Obviously SuSE isn't, and I'd be very surprised if Connectiva or TurboLinux where even giving the idea consideration.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
A sports analogy:
United Linux is like the bottom 4 teams in a league combining forces to take on the champions. (Basically you have the best of the worst taking on the winners.)
The last thing businesses want to do is continually reinstall new distributions all of the time in order to get the new versions of applications -- imagine in the MS world having (or perceivably having) to upgrade from Win98 to Windows 2000 to use Office2000 or the new Windows Media player --- etc, etc. I think the big winner (functionally) will be the distribution that ends the need (or perceived need) to constantly have to install new distributions every 6 months -- just to get the upgraded applications. I would like to see the ability to easily go from say KDE 2 to KDE 3 from within a distribution without having to upgrade to a new point release distribution. I know that you can go to KDE's site and go through RPM hell to manually upgrade the RPMS's one at a time -- or you can add a "special" line in your sources.lst file in some cases to get new versions in the Debian world -- or you can use the source and compile yourself, but we are talking about my Mom and Grandma here...
The only time someone should have to go through a full reinstall of the whole ball of wax should be every few years. Not every 6 months. It should be easy to keep applications up to date or on the bleeding edge -- without compromising or reinstalling the base distribution.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
I was quoted a bit out of context in this article. Here are the full statements that I recall making, that were quoted only in part:
and: I just wanted to clarify the statements, because I don't believe they were as sensational as the article makes them out to be.