Slashback: Norwegian, Nader, Handheld

Slashback below with a handful of updates on Walmart's OS-free PCs, another X-Scale PDA, Ralph Nader's plan to slip the Big Government carpet from beneath Microsoft, and how you can help save Norwegian history. Film88 gets slapped down by the copyright barons, but 802.11b gets a reprieve. Read on for the details.

Putting it all online. "As earlier reported on Slashdot, poor Ottar Grepstad has difficulties getting into his database. Now they're available for download! This is one geeky challenge you don't want to miss. :-) You'll find the story here (click on 'the password mystery'). 'use Xbase;', anyone? :-)"

The loyal opposition. Helmholtz Coil writes "Yahoo! is carrying a rebuttal to the letter James Love and Ralph Nader wrote to the OMB, from the fine folks at ZDNet. Some interesting points, very interesting tone to the whole piece. The question is, though-when can we expect a rebuttal to the rebuttal?"

They need a Free OS focus group :) Gecko writes "Remember the PCs without a pre-installed operating system, selling at Wal-Mart's? OSNews got their hands on one of these and they test Windows, Linux and BeOS. Apparently, the company behind these products had immediately replaced the on-board winmodem with a hardware PCI one, in order to be compatible with Linux, but their new AthlonXP/Duron PC models now come with a newer S3 Savage4 DDR integrated graphics card that is not supported by XFree86. One keeps wondering why they sell these PCs without Windows, if they are not able to test their hardware with other OSes before sending them to Wal-Mart for sale."

A new meaning for Pocket Rocket. Hot on the heels of XScale introductions and announcements from Toshiba and Fujitsu, Brian writes "Acer, Inc. today announces the Acer n20 series, eight months after announcing support for the Microsoft Pocket PC 2002 platform, the announcement also made Acer one of the few manufacturers to support both the Palm and Pocket PC platform. PDA LIVE.com again has the scoop and the photos :)"

I hope the pace picks up on the introduction of machines based on Intel's XScale processor.

Dog Star. DHR writes "An update to an earlier story shows that Sirius the satellite radio provider has finally come to their senses and withdrawn their petition to restrict the 2.4GHz band."

Intermission. bubblegoose writes "Yahoo has a story about Film88 being taken down by the MPA. They say it's because the servers were in the Netherlands, I think it more likely due to a good /.'ing."

Comments

Re:First Pacman Post

[Anonymous Coward]

Pac-Man's digestive system, amazingly enough, actually utilizes EVERYTHING he eats. No waste is generated.

NO SHIT!

target of OSless PC

[Hollins]

One keeps wondering why they sell these PCs without Windows, if they are not able to test their hardware with other OSes before sending them to Wal-Mart for sale.

I don't think Linux users are the target buyer for these PCs. I suspect most of them are being sold to:

1. Folks with a PII/300 who want to upgrade and are planning on installing their OEM Win98SE
2. People who intend to install a pirated windows, most likely a copy from the office or a buddy

Both of these categories are in violation of MS EULA, but I would guess 80% of the machines end up with Windows on them. Most people who install an OEM copy of Windows will have no idea that they're breaking the law, which I believe is a large part of the reason click-wrap licensing gets away with so much.

I'm curious, how prominently are these PCs advertised as not having an OS? Is Wal-Mart getting many returns because nothing happened when the machine was turned on?

Re:target of OSless PC

[Qrlx]

Both of these categories are in violation of MS EULA

We really need a court or two to weigh in on this issue of reinstalling the OEM OS on a new PC. I can see how Microsoft wants to protect their revenue stream by selling you a new OS when you buy a new PC, but I'm not sure if that's solid enough legal ground to stand on.

What, aside from Microsoft's assertion, makes the OS and the PC inseperable? If this is legally possible, why don't we see it all the time? For example, it's well-known that a car that costs $15,000 has got $30,000 worth of parts in it. Yet the auto manufacturers make no claim that you can't take the fuel filter from your old Honda and put it in your new Honda, or sell it on the street, or make a funny hat out of it.

Additionally, what is meant by the term "computer?" Is it the CPU, or the HD, or the RAM, or the MB, or what? If you upgrade all those items, one at a time, are you then required to buy a new OS because it's essentially a new computer now?

I (and many others) don't think Microsoft's assertion that an OEM OS is only valid on the computer it was sold with is legally viable. But until a court addresses the issue, we'll just have to take their word for it. Or not, like the people buying OS-less PCs at WalMart. I'd love to see their faces when the U.S. Marshalls break down the door.

Maybe a highly ethical Wal-Mart employee out there will feel compelled to provide the BSA with the names and addresses (via credit card receipts) of all those who've purchased OS-less PCs, thereby ensuring that our economy doesn't lose untold more millions due to software piracy.

Re:target of OSless PC

[Erasmus Darwin]

"Both of these categories are in violation of MS EULA"

There's a third category of people installing retail copies of Windows that've been removed from the previous machine. That's 100% legitimate, as far as I know.

The question is whether or not there are many people like that out there. Retail boxes of Windows tend to get decent placement in computer stores, so theoretically there are people buying them. Also, for a novice user (which I suspect includes a lot of the Walmart PC customers), it's generally easier to buy a new PC rather than upgrade pieces. So it's not unreasonable for there to be a number of legitimate purchases of the system for Windows use.

Re:target of OSless PC

[BeBoxer]

The spare parts cost more. If you take your car apart, and sold the parts, they would be worth more than the car. People don't do this because it's too labor intensive, and most folks don't like used parts all that much. So to turn it around, if you bought all the spare parts you would need to build a car, it would cost more for the part alone than the whole car.

Which is just like with a PC and Windows. The PC and Windows are worth more apart than together, due to the steep discounts on OEM versions of Windows. But auto manufacturers can't stop you from parting out your car. Why is M$ allowed to stop you from parting out your PC? I should be able to buy a Dell, put Linux on it, and sell the new copy of WinXP for whatever I can get. Just like I can buy a new Ford, put in an Alpine stereo, and sell the OEM stereo.

Why OS free rather than free OS computers?

[frovingslosh]

The winmodem issue was bad enough, but if there isn't Linux support for the video chipset that's awful! But it all brings up the question, why sell an OS free system rather than just including a free OS (Linux) on the drive? Certainly geeks who want a different flavor of Linux would have no problems with this. You might have to include a simple utility to kill the Linux partition for appliance users who will be instaling a flavor of Windows, but with Linux on the system already, maybe a few of them might decide it was less painful learing a stable system than installing Microsoft.

And Linux on the drive would certainly help address the issue of support for the shipped hardware!

Re:Why OS free rather than free OS computers?

[kesuki]

The winmodem issue was Worse than this. the latest OS-less PCs have a chipset that isn't 'auto detected' by XSetup, yet clearly does work, (for 2-d) if you pick the right driver manually. I have no quible with them using newer GPUs on the mobo, even if it causes hicups with Xfree. anyone actually installing linux on this has read a few sites, and will turn to those to figure it out.
Microsoft has always tried to make the OEM versions of windows only run on the hardware the specific vendor supplied. They know that when the OS can be sold as a seperate component they'll loose aftermarket value. People will buy new PCs, then sell the legit copy to someone else, and maybe not delete the copy on the Pc they bought. And if they ever had problems with the system they'd call techsupport and demand a new CD because they 'lost' the old one. And remember, while reselling software you've installed is immoral, and illegal, it isn't a Criminal offense until you've traded $5,000 worth in goods over a 9 month period of time. That means they can't get any help from the government tracking you down. This is why they've got 1-800 anti piracy numbers, because anonymous tipsters is the only way they can go after 'every' software pirate. They then have to drag you through civil court without any means of gathering evedince against you, because as I've said, you haven't commited a criminal offence. Should they manage to come after you due to an anonymous tipster, and they 'lie' to the poliece to get warrents to search your house and computer, then you can take them to court in a counter suit, because they illegially inlisted the aid of the police to harrass you. you can even sue the police for wrongful search and seizure.
Without evidence they just can't win in civil court, and without partcipiting in a criminal act, the police can't help them obtain the evidence they need to sue you. So one the cat is out of the bag there is nothing in the world microsoft can do to stop people from buying a Dell PC and then reslling that OEM windows copy, as a 'mail-in rebate' kinda deal. while still using it. Obviously you should be able to resell used copies of windows, afterall I've converted many PCs to linux or FreeBSD. But once you make it legal to do that everyone who lacks an ounce of scruples will be selling the oem copy of windows on e-bay. That would make the oem copy worth about $3, and kill the market for $399 'retail box full version' $199 'upgrade' version market... because the OEM version Is a full version.
I guess I've gotten sidetracked enough for now. Micrsoft would loose some profitability if it became legal to resell OEM copies, and more OEMs would support linux if the licensing issues were finally resolved in a sane matter.
EULAs are really the bane of the modern era, they've gone from being disclaimers of no warrenty (the original intent) to becoming a binding contractual agreement between the end user and the software company. Since that was not the spirit of the law the supreme court needs to come down hard on the EULA and make them completly non-binding, and that breaking them simply ends your relationship with the software company. EG: you break the EULA and they don't have to provide tech support. that's it... it's meant to be a non-binding agreement in the first place.

The "rebuttal" to Nader...

[alouts]

...was not total disagreement, and could hardly be called "the opposition". They were arguing only with half of what Nader was saying, but agreeing with the overall thrust of his actions.

Basically, they agree that the OMB could, and should, weild their budget power to ensure security is maximized and to lower prices, increase interoperability, etc. But where they differ from Nader, and the only real disagreement is whether there should be any mandate on forcing Microsoft to release source, sell source, etc. They're arguing that the OMB should absolutely try to sway Microsoft's behavior, but that it should do so only through well-reasoned business cases, not through pseudo-enforcement of anti-trust violations.

Re:The "rebuttal" to Nader...

[Malcontent]

"But where they differ from Nader, and the only real disagreement is whether there should be any mandate on forcing Microsoft to release source, sell source, etc. "

If this is what they were arguing against they were beating a straw man. Nader did not call for that. ALthough his letter was primarily about MS that particular section of his letter dealt with "office software" in general terms. He was suggesting that the govt might be able to buy the source of some "office software" cheaper then buying MS licenses year after year. Personally I think that makes a lot of sense. If let's say open office isn't good enough could the govt buy the source code for wordperfect office or smartsuite for less then what it costs to equip the entire govt with MS office? I bet it would. As a bonus the source code would become public domain. An all around good deal for everybody.

Re:Database files in Microsoft Backup format?

[Kris_J]

Anyway, they're not MS backup. The header on each file is NORTON Ver 2A.

Re:Nader

[captain_craptacular]

Yeah, thats a great precedent. Lets violate someones rights because we don't like them. I really don't think you want to allow politicians access to the slippery slope of deciding who gets what rights.

There is XFree86 support for the ProSavage DDR...

[marm]

although not in the main XFree86 4.2.0 release.

Download the driver here.

Note that, according to the author of the Savage driver, he has no ProSavage DDR hardware to test on, so don't bet on it, but hopefully it should work (as with most drivers, it's just a matter of adding a hardware ID to make it work, assuming the hardware vendor hasn't messed around too much since the previous version, which is unlikely in this case)...

Hope this helps some people...

ZDnet's editor

[DustMagnet]

But technology doesn't mix well with government regulations that dictate how to build and distribute technology products.

He clearly missed the whole point of Nader's argument. Nader didn't ask the government to regulate anything, except it's own purchases. Nader himself said it was better than government regulations.

Re:Database files in Microsoft Backup format?

[Kris_J]

The password is "ladepujd", but the msback.exe I linked to in another post says the version is wrong for a restore. It does do a catelogue though.

Re:Walmart?

[Cody Hatch]

Please tell me your kidding. Comparing sweatshops to slavery is ludicrous (and to think I've seen people complaing that calling copyright violation "piracy" was bad...).

People in sweatshops are there by choice (unless they are actually slaves, which does happen (rarely) but then the problem is the slavery, not the sweatshops). The reason people choose to work in sweatshops is because the alternatives are WORSE. Is it a awful thing for a 13 year old kid to be working 12 hours a day for a few cents? Yeah. Would it be better if he was starving on the street instead? Not really.

Also, don't make the mistake of judging wages in terms of the price of a cup of Starbucks Super Mocha Java. In China, it's common for young women from the interior to go work in sweatshops on the coast for a few months, then go back home to the village, where they're now quite well off (yes, even at sweatshop wages), and can easily find a husband.

What is your boycot going to do? Well, actually, you'll probably just get ignored, but if you do have an impact, it'll probably be that Walmart's suppliers shift production to automated factories in Mexico. Yeah, that'll sure help the starving kids in Myanmar...

If you want to have an impact, calculate the difference in price between everything you buy that was made in a sweatshop, and it's factory-made equivalent, then donate that money to a charity. You'll do far more good.

Success!

[borgquite]

Files successfully extracted and emailed, using my old copy of MS-DOS 6.2 Backup, with the compliments of Slashdot :)

Re:Success!

[borgquite]

Access 2000 seemed to open the database fine, I took a peek at some of the tables just to make sure. Here's a non-protected copy for those that are interested:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/minkus/DBASEWIN.zip

Re:Database files in Microsoft Backup format?

[outlier]

The password is "ladepujd"

which is Reidar Djupedal (the guy who owned the collection)'s last name spelled backward.

Not quite "password" but not a particularly secure pw...

I want to do this and email it to piracy@ms

[systemaster]

I'll buy the OS less PC and use my same monitor and keyboard, To me it looks like the same computer(tower is under desk) I just replaced a worn out part of it(the tower) So I'll call it the same computer, so I'm not breaking the license, just reinstalling it on the same computer after a rebuild. Hell I'm a dumb consumer, monitor = computer, tower = CPU, I just bought a new CPU the computer is the same. How can that be illegal.

Re:I want to do this and email it to piracy@ms

[Qrlx]

Well said systemaster. Except, anything that isn't the keyboard, mouse, or monitor is the "hard drive."

I see the situation as pretty analogous to some leases I've signed over the years. They have clauses saying that if I don't pay the rent, the landlord can take posession of the property and all my belongings, and so on. Well, it may say that in the lease but the landlord-tenant laws will override the parts of our agreement that are illegal.

The thing is, we're sailing into uncharted waters with all this IP legislation stuff. We've already seen the corporate power grab embodied in the Sony Bono Copyrights Forever Act, which if I'm not mistaken will be before some high court any day now. We have laughable patents on ridiculous "business processes" and there's patent pending on the pop-under ad, which according to the story here on slashdot is all of two lines of javascript.

Hey, look, a soapbox called History... People, we are living through a revolution akin to Gutenberg's invention of movable type, and Martin Luther's reformation of the Catholic Church. What am I talking about? Prior to Gutenberg, it was prohibitively expensive to create printed matter; teams of monks dedicated their *lives* to copying important texts. Concomitant with the scarcity of literature was a vast illiterate population, who had to be told what the bible meant by their local clergy.

Gutenberg stood the status quo on its ear. Now, anyone with some molten lead and a few hard workers could turn out in days the same "content" that used to take YEARS to produce. People could now be taught to read the bible for themselves, and didn't have to rely on the interpretation spoon-fed to them by the Church. In short, people gained an incredible freedom, the freedom to THINK FOR THEMSELVES, and the all-powerful Catholic Church (you know, the guys who changed the calendar in October 1582) (look at your unix calendar, it's there) was dealt a blow from which it has never recovered.

How exactly does all this relate to IP law and the RIAA/MPAA DMCA Gabba Gabba Hey? I'm not quite sure, but you bet your pinhead they're related. The Church didn't need IP lawyers and patents, they would simply Darn You To Heck! if you got uppity. They had a copyright, if you will, on the freakin' alphabet! To us that sounds ridiculous, but a copyright and a horde of rapacious IP lawyers provides the same "Game Over" result today that Excommunication did five hundred years ago.

Revolutions of this sort play out over decades, and we are riding the first waves of this one. Meanwhile, I'm stepping down off the soapbox before JonKatz starts pelting me with AOL Platinum 7.0 CDs.

Re:The Moon: A Liberal Myth

[bakes]

and then an enormous database housed at Berkeley is updated with information about you

Are you sure they wouldn't keep it in Norway?

Re:Walmart?

[joss]

You probably overestimate the difference between being a slave and working in a sweat shop. An economic position where one must work hard for 18 hours purely to survive is pretty close to slavery. I suspect that the workers would be better off if they really were slaves - the owners would then have more incentive to invest in training and would be inclined to take better care of actual property.

You're right up to a point. It is worse for those working in sweatshops for you to simply boycott sweatshops' products.

People used to argue that it would be wrong to boycott slave manafactured products because unless the slaves were productive and profitable they would probably be executed. Again, it's a reasonable argument, but it misses the point slightly.

Re:Database files in Microsoft Backup format?

[Kris_J]

I downloaded a demo MSbackup cracker that gave me the first letter, then I found the word in the file, but reversed. I shouldn't have needed to look in the file, once I knew the first letter I really should have noticed it was the last letter of the guys last name and put 2 and 2 together...