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Oracle Changes Certification Requirements

Posted by michael on from the sheepskin dept.

micromoog writes "Oracle announced today that all new candidates for the Oracle Certified Professional certification must now pass an instructor-led course in addition to passing the four exams previously required. They claim demand from the industry for hands-on experience; however, this move will bring Oracle an extra $2000/class for physical classes, or $1500/class for online classes. Previously, someone with knowledge of Oracle could get certified for nothing more than the cost of the four exams ($500 total). There was no warning or grace period. This seems to me like a simple cash grab on a captive audience."

40 comments

  1. No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This seems to me like a simple cash grab on a captive audience.

    No kidding. It's always been a cash grab, the only difference is that Oracle has raised the price from $500 to $2000.

  2. Money Making For Oracle by kb3hag · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a jump by oracle to make more money by "Improving" the courses for the certification, i wonder what microsoft would do if they saw this. the idea is a good one, but the prices are a little bit to high

  3. Oracle feels vulnerable. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you remember, it was exactly this behavior that began the sinking of Novell. This kind of extortion is an early indication that the company feels vulnerable. I don't know why they feel vulnerable, but they know, and they are showing it.

    1. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by zulux · · Score: 2

      Suposidly DB2 is making inroads on Oracle - A compelling reason is that if someone buys an IBM mainframe, with IBM DB2 and IBM consulting - there is not "pass the blame" possible - It's all IBM's problem to fix.

      Several years ago I would have considered Oracle for our middle sized projects - now were a PostregSQL shop for everyting. We dodn't do large projects where Oracle really shines.

      Of course YMMV.

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    2. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Novell died because windows got the functionality it provided. Well, not quite as good as novell but most organisations need for novell simply vanished.

    3. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by JetScootr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For one, I can understand the need to have a human at least look over a certification candidate once during the process. I'm a living example of this. In the 1980's I joined the Air Force, and took their most difficult avionics course. It was called "Inertial and Radar Navigation Systems". I was on the honor roll the whole time I was at Keesler AFB, Biloxi MI. I graduated at top of my class - 94.6% average. This class was a mix of everything - analog computers, digital, radar, lasers, gyroscopes, spherical and inertial space navigation, FM and AM, etc.
      I got into the field and couldn't fix a damn thing. Why? cuz I understood the theory and the math, which were standardized tests, but Couldn't turn that into the knowledge of "If the light blinks wrong and the direction points consistently 15 degrees west of where it should, what's wrong with the 'capacitive tachometer'?"
      A human instructor could have spotted my theory-to-practice problems with hardware. I'm all digital and software now, damn good at it, but The USAF's standardized tests miss read me.

      --
      Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
    4. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Larry Ellison has a constant hard-on over Bill Gates. MS Advanced Data Server & MS SQL compete with postgreSQL/mySQL, and but the giant db market is lucrative, so expect MS to make a serious run at it within 5 years.

      That said, MS won't put oracle out of business. I suspect the certification change is to improve the image of certification (ie - more l33t)... the additional revenue from it won't be that much.

    5. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DB2 competes well with Oracle on the high part of the mid range.

      MS SQL Server 2000 competes well with Oracle on the low part of the mid range.

      Postgres is far better and cheaper for the low end.

      IPS is still the undisputed master of the high end.

      IBM owns DB2 and IPS, and since Postgres is Open Sourced, they can offer solutions for that too.

      Oracle is running scared from both IBM and MS.

    6. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in about 1993-4, the market was completely flooded with CNE dipshits (just like the MCSE dipshits of a couple years ago). They didn't make the tests harder until NT had already started to erode their dominance.

      I'd argue the opposite -- the easy tests hastened Novell's downfall.

    7. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...I got into the field and couldn't fix a damn thing. Why? cuz I understood the theory and the math, which were standardized tests..."

      So, what you *really* mean is the certification tests only test what they test. No news to me. It is clearly *uneeded* any "coach" to anything (from the certification standpoint). What it is *really* needed is that the test focuses on what is meant to. As an example, your real situation would be clearly spoted if only the tests were practical cases instead of multiple choice tests focused in underlying theory (you yourself say they succeeded at what they were meant for: they tested your theory knowledgeability and you recognize you were theory savvy, so that's OK.).

      The truth is that those certification projects are not meant to test your knowledge but to cash you out. Once you understand this you see clearly that this movement is clearly focused to maximize effiency on what the test are really meant for: make money.

    8. Re:Oracle feels vulnerable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably cheaper and easier to have a person standing there telling you you're incompetent than to write a comprehensive enough test that will identify your incompetence. What a typical software or hardware certification test is meant to cover is broad and undefined for the most part. They can test the theory and normal operations, but can you identify all the things that might go wrong with a Red Hat system to test someone on them?

  4. Oh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now the clueless oracle fucks at work will be able to demand even more money. Looks like the linux group is taking another pay cut this quarter.

  5. this is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    especially after the two idiotic oracle admins a place I used to work for hired.

    the de-valuing of their certificate like the msce comes to mind..

  6. You have got to be kidding. by Neck_of_the_Woods · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Take the number of exams times the number of people that get cets. It is a drop in the bucket. I would even guess that the total gross, no net, of this will be less than one oracle install and licence for a 4 processor machine.

    Money grab please...I think it is more about making sure it is not a book worm that has the cert and that they have "proven" hands on exp with the program. Sometimes I think Slashdot is nothing more than on big troll fest by the editors....you got me.

    --
    Neck_of_the_Woods
    #/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
    1. Re:You have got to be kidding. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take the number of exams times the number of people that get certs. It is a drop in the bucket.

      Well then, in that case, wouldn't they do the most for their cause to offer certs, human instructor or not, entirely for free? The more Oracle-certified people out there, the bigger their potential market.

      I agree with you that they most likely don't make much "selling" certificates. Consider, however, that while many people would consider getting a cert for a few hundred if it makes nice resume filler, *very* few people will blow a few grand on the same thing.


      I think it is more about making sure it is not a book worm that has the cert

      The topic at hand involves software maintainence, not small engine repair. Understanding it at a conceptual level means almost the same thing as understanding it in practice. I will grant that having a few years' experience in using a product does mean a lot more than reading a book, but a two week course does not equal a few years' experience.

      Of course, this topic also assumes that holding a certification actually has some meaning. I have a few myself, and have yet to encounter a "real" problem that comes even remotely close to the toy problems posed on an exam. They have one use and one use only - They satisfy the requirements for various meaningless buzzwords that HR loves putting in job postings.

    2. Re:You have got to be kidding. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're dead on. We just discussed this all yesterday. Experience (real life) almost always outdoes "book knowledge". Nothing like solving a real problem to drive a point home. You may get burned by something once but, when you do, it won't happen again.

      I'm Sybase certified but only because my company offered a perk to become so -- that is, there was something immediate in it for me. (BTW, I have forgotten far more about Sybase than I remember.) I used Sybase for about 1.5 years after YEARS of IMS and DB2. Now, I've used Oracle for over 4 years and despite not being "certified", I have no doubts about my abilities -- nor do my peers and superiors.

      It's the classic case of "use it or lose it" --- knowledge without a need for application gets lost because it's no longer important. Think of your high school and college mathematics courses: when was the last time you had to determine the first derivative of something? However, algebra comes in handy all the time so you haven't forgotten that. Same for a lot of your geometry, I would wager.

      I don't believe that Oracle feels like they need to see you in a class -- especially when you consider that they only require one class and it can be an "intro" type of class. Certainly nothing that proves you know anything more than the average Joe. Besides, what are they going to do? Deny your certification because they didn't like the way you looked when you showed up to class? I doubt that. It's just silliness....

  7. Oracle Certification bundle. by percey · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the oracle certification bundle that they sold for 9i where you can get all four classes for the price of 2, and now there's five? Will they up the classes in that special offer? I think it was good until August. I'm just speculating here, but I'm wondering if they lost money off of that and decided to make things more difficult. It would also seem that they're trying to make up for that whole California shortfall, but that's just a guess.

  8. Find other alternatives by powerlifter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I cannot find real reasons to recommend Oracle any more. I work with more and more applications that run better under Postgres or mysql than with Oracle. The only thing propping these guys up are other for-$$$$ apps that only talk to the big O. I for one just reject them utterly.

    Lastly, given the unadulterated abuse and torture they've put SQL through, I've given up on them. They are no longer an SQL database.

    --

    ---

    1. Re:Find other alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK I love PostgreSQL and MySQL but cmon.
      PostgreSQL has no replication there's a number of initiative that are addressing that but they nowehre
      near ready for enviroments were you need HA.
      MySQL is very fast but lacks a lot of basic features
      (foreign keys etc. etc.).

  9. I kind of welcome this by rerunn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Certifications used to be worth something when everyone and their brother wasnt going out and getting them. This will at least let you know that people with an Oracle cert were at least really serious enough about it to fork up the cash. Sad it had to turn to this but nowadays, you have yahoo's off the street wanting a job with their main claim to fame being an MCSE cert which they passed by memorizing the cheat sheets that you can buy off the net.

    Flame away.

    1. Re:I kind of welcome this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Certification/Training is run by the marketing department for a reason. The cycle has been repeated by many companies -- flood the market with evangalistic talent -- then pull back and make the requirements harder moments before the cert has completely nosedived.

      (There was a story about Cisco certs going the same way just the other day.)

    2. Re:I kind of welcome this by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2
      Sad it had to turn to this but nowadays, you have yahoo's off the street wanting a job with their main claim to fame being an MCSE cert which they passed by memorizing the cheat sheets that you can buy off the net.

      But... But... MCSEs are worth more than degrees if you work in software! The slashbots told me so in that other thread a few weeks ago!

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:I kind of welcome this by hpavc · · Score: 1

      agreed ... most of the people i work with that have them seem to have gotten them out of a cracker jack box ... the msce stuff they should know they totally dont. i dont know what the testing procedure they go through is. nothing like i have experienced.

      though this doesnt mean that the oracle stuff is stricter. i have my ocp and it wasnt easy.

      --
      members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
  10. This is kinda stupid... by kasnol · · Score: 1

    I was hoping to take an exam two weeks later, and now they announce this~
    I really have to check if they did already did impose this requirement in Hong Kong....

    Else I probably earn an OCP ASAP~

  11. $2000 is nothing by peterdaly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Think about how much companies pay to use Oracle. In most cases, if you already work for a company that uses Oracle, they will put up the $2k + expenses for you to get certified. It will be a drop in the bucket.

    I know my employer would put up the cash for me, if it made sense and I wanted it.

    -Pete

    --
    Soccer Goal Plans
    1. Re:$2000 is nothing by CaptainZapp · · Score: 1
      Yes, compared to an Oracle license 2'000$ are chickenshit.

      For me as an independant contractor however it is most definitely not, especially, since I can get the product to play around (not for production use of course) virtually for free.

      I can understand, why one would want to raise the bar for getting certified. The bar however should be within the exams and not via the price.

      So if I want to get certified I am forced to sit for three days into a class, that likely bores the living shit out of me plus I can't bill any customers for this time.

      Having actually teached system administration and performance & tuning classes for an enterprise database product (which was not Oracle though, but relational databases are conceptually rather comparable) it's a pretty safe bet, that this is a complete waste of time for my specific case.

      But then I don't really care: Certification might look good on paper. I have never really had a need to prove my knowledge to a customer with a crappy piece of (overprized) paper.

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    2. Re:$2000 is nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You said, "I know my employer would put up the cash for me...." Well bully for you. But most employers would not piss on you if you were on fire. Most employers do not spend a dime on training their employees, they will lay them off and replace them with the employees that have the exact training they want. Most of us have to pay for this stuff out of our own pocket. And I have never seen an instructor led class that was worth attending, much less paying for. It's a total ripoff, of money and time. And remember that there might be travel expenses too. I think that maybe consulting companies have talked oracle into raising the barrier in order to reduce the supply of certified people and keep their rates up. For Oracle to act so stupidly makes me think that they are on their way down the toilet. So, who will flame-out and die first? Oracle or HP?

  12. $2000? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They must be counting on the corporate sector to foot the bill. A most companies pay for their employees to get certified.

    I think Oracle is going to be in real trouble when MySql supports transactions and it's integrity is certified by the world at large.

    1. Re:$2000? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or when people realize that, for the type of problems Oracle addresses, MySQL sucks and PostgreSQL is good enough for people that don't have crushing load or extraordinarily complex queries. In other words, for probably 60 to 70% of the cases that Oracle is currently used, PostgreSQL would do just as well. I can't wait for the open source world to get over it's fucking fixation on MySQL and learns to look at more interesting solutions like PostgreSQL, Firebird, or sapdb.

  13. Product Overview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


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    1. Re:Product Overview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SQL server: writers block readers, readers block writers, nuff said

  14. Okay, so that's why. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Very interesting.

  15. +1 FUCKING FUNNY ;-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    C|N>K

  16. I'm not supreised you were #1 in your class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since you were the only one in attendance at Biloxi, Michigan (MI).

  17. Welcome... by return+42 · · Score: 1
    This seems to me like a simple cash grab on a captive audience.

    Yep. Welcome to the company store. Welcome to the company town. This is a non-union shop. Here are your (admittedly golden) shackles.

  18. Other ways to get hands-on practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi, I have started training for the Oracle9i DBA cert track and I am royally pissed off that Oracle has instated this "requirement". Oracle mailed out the email on June 15 -- coincidentally the last day of the "deadline" for taking a 9i cert exam to get around the classroom training requirement. I am using a third-party vendor (DBDomain) for my self-study training, and this vendor requires that I have a copy of the Oracle database on my system and each course has hands-on exercises within it. I'm smart enough to know that I need hands-on experience with the database. I don't need Oracle requiring me to pay them money when I can find hands-on training for much cheaper with another vendor, AND can train in my own time, AND don't have to subject myself to Oracle's brand of "everything-is-great-with-the-database, we-are-the-market-leader" approach to training that doesn't tell you everything you need to know.

    Sure, there are those people out there who will try to pass the certification exams with only book knowledge, but they aren't going to get a job in the real-world. Most IT companies require you to talk to the people you will be working with/for and sometimes to take a hands-on test to evaluate your competency. Book knowledge won't cut it there. So, let the book-only people get certified, but they will do so to find that they can't get a job without hands-on experience with the database.

    I'm also worried now that as I pursue the 9i track, Oracle can again change the "requirements" at any time, perhaps forcing me and everyone else to take all of my training from Oracle education. It seems to me that Oracle is testing the water here to find out if we'll stand for this sort of extortion or if we'll make a stink about it. Me, I'm going to make stink about it. You can too: write loyalty_us@oracle.com and let Oracle know what you think of their thinly vieled attempt at extortion. -- Sindihar Muhammed

  19. What about third-world countries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you are a dev/dba in a third world country, you have to still cough up 2K. I can see how this will lead to more discrimination. Keep up the good job Oracle. You are not on my list anymore. Microsoft is better than those guys.