Slashdot Mirror
Complete Net Cafe Shutdown After Beijing Fire
lunchlady doris writes: "The BBC has this story that tells of a fire in an internet cafe in Beijing that killed 24 people. The mayor responded to this tragedy by shutting down all 2,400 cafes in the city, most of which are operated illegally. Only 200 cafes will be allowed to reopen, pending municipal regulation. Needless to say, the netizens of Beijing are pissed and see this as a move to quash the limited access to the net that the Chinese people currently have."
Recently China's been acting quite belligerently towards N. Korean refugees trying to escape into the embassies of free nations. The first one was the Japanese embassy on May 10. The latest one was a few days ago at the S. Korean embassy. They have been entering embassy grounds and forcibly removing refugees from sovereign territory.
This closing of Internet cafes is indicative of something, perhaps a new crackdown on freedoms as the Chinese populace is exposed to more and more visions of freedom seekers being beat down at the gates of the S. Korean embassy or a mother and grandmother beaten up at the Japanese embassy.
I have been pwned because my
If the netcafe is already illegal, does saying "please, shutdown() your netcafe, it's illegal" change anything :)
... the Chinese gov would admit it's responsibilities regarding the incident did you? If the internet cafe was allowed to be legal, no emergency exits would be locked. Sorry, no sig.
"You laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at you because you're all the same." --Vick Imbornoni
It's easy to jump on the mayor for being a censor tyrant for this action, and some conspiracy buffs will undoubtedly claim the fire was set by the authorities on purpose. I think the real cause is the cavalier lack of any safety measures. Most of these cafés were illegal most likely because they didn't conform to any sort of building codes or grease the right palms.
After the excitement dies back down, several of these cafés will be up and running again, most likely under new aliases and at new locations.
I doubt that this will have more than a temporary effect. Even on fire safety.
I really don't see why 'the netizen would be upset'. A lot of the resident in big city, espeically like Beijing, have interenet access at home, even broad ban if you are lucky enough to stay in a modern building. The so-called internet cafe are really for teenagers to enjoy networked gameing (LAN), and sometimes to view pornographic content on the web, which is illegal anyway. It is ridiculous to judge that this is a way the goverment use to stop the 'netizen' to access the internet.
It only takes a little cynicism to take the view that this is an opportunity for China to shut down something they don't like. To be honest, does one fire in one cybercafe really justify the closure of all such establishments?
The BSA doesn't mess around in those developing countries, does it?! Betcha the 200 shops that re-open will have their documents in order...
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
Just playing devil's advocate...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
the real condition of these illegal net cafes.....
Think a large room with only one door(maybe two... second one likely locked) and 100-200 conmputers with a few hundred people. When they do things here they tend to do it big.
Windows are often barred as well so if there is a fire near an exit.... you can imagine the results.
This is why they are shutting down the cafes.... they are death traps.
As for controlling Internet access.... they want to limit the hours and the ages of the people who can access it - stop school children wasting their time there and it also means you have to be an adult to use it outside of school holidays.
I write to clear things up just in case some people immediate jumping into issues of free speech and human rights.
:(
The students are killed as all possible exits were either blocked or locked up.
The building has only one entrance/exit, and it was locked at the time of fire, and the windows were barred with steel. As a matter of fact the owner didn't get proper license to open an Internet cafe and the door was always locked to avoid inspection. The windows were barred to prevent thievery, and it's not unusual to see many factories and commercial buildings have their windows barred for this reason.
As a result the authority shutdown all Internet cafes for safety and license inspection. In fact only 1/10 of the Internet cafes got proper commercial license for. It's not an action against civilians' Internet access, at least not directly.
Of course, I'd expect people in Beijing has tough time accessing Internet in the future, as the conservative people would sneak chance to impose more restrictions.
Of course they could have shut down most of the cafes before, since they were illegal, but that would expose them to international pressure and make them look like tyrants deemed to deny freedom and anonymity.
Now, they have the perfect excuse. Under the banner of "think of the fires", they can close down most of the cafes and start imposing strict regulations and control on the remaining ones. If any of the remaining ones fails to comply, they can always audit them for fire regulations compliance, and subsequently shut them down.
And what will the international community say? Nothing. What can you say?
Any kind of totalitary regime comes with its own risks. Abuse of power comes to mind as a prominent one. The Chinese government will always leverage their existing power in order to maitain and obtain more power. Frankly, I don't know how a one-billion-people country can be ruled. I don't even know if a democratic regime as we know it would ever work there. But I'm sure that it can't be much worse than it already is.
free the mallocs!
If that would have been any other kind of building in town, nobody else would care.
The reality is that, "Investigators blamed the high death toll on locked emergency exits. " This is all there is to the story.
Shit happens.
People who go the Cafes are mostly teenagers. Closing the net cafes does not affect anything at all for most Internet surfers.
I can remember, several years ago, there was a huge fire in a dance club, which killed hundreds of people. The city closed all its dance clubs for one month and only allow those which has the right license and meets fire standards to reopen. I think it is the same thing here for Net Cafes. It has nothing to do with quashing the Internet access. It can't.
Notes: I just checked with friends in China. They can acess slashdot.com and cnn.com without any limitation.
For the safety of those around you, the Internet should only be used outdoors. Just outside every building you can see groups of people clustered together, off to the side so they don't block traffic through the doors. Even in winter you'll see them outside for several minutes at a time.
It would appear the consensus so far is that Internet is a good thing and therefore all access should be free and open. I would tend to agree, although what is clear is this: any government saying something is illegal, or immoral, or expressing concern about the effect it might have on young people, tends to stigmatise it, but also to make it more attractive. Internet will not be seen as a learning tool if the government suggest that young people should not be spending a lot of time with it. Just like parents years ago bemoaned computer games and too much time in front of those things, but at least then (before the Sega Megadrive and Nintendo Entertainment System, at least) most home machines had a keyboard and taught people like me the basic skills to then get into REAL computing.
Internet should not be discouraged. It is a basic skill that the younger generation will need to progress in the increasingly digital economy. I don't mean computer programming, I mean basic business management and productivity increases by leveraging the power of IT. China (or any other régime for that matter) is making a mistake by making Internet taboo. Late night surfing, on these kid's own free time, should be encouraged. Making porn or whatever illegal usually does not help. I always remember that during prohibition in the US, alcohol consumption rose, and I think now of the UK where tough drug laws are doing nothing to stop alarming increases in heroin addiction.
Still, China has a long long way to go. So do many developing nations. Until the incumbent powers that be have embraced Internet themselves, they are onto a loser. Sad, because it is because of reasons like this that the younger generations are not getting enough time in front of the Internet to start noticing the finer netiquette of things, since they are effectively involved in illegal activity just by surfing in those places, and are therefore unlikely to be good netizens...
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
As a Yank writing from Shenzhen, China, let me add - lay off the China-bashing, guys. The country is making great strides in dozens of areas. Some hightlights are WTO, urban development, legal/admin legistrative reform, capitalism, technology, and, dare I say it, democracy and human rights. If you want to know more, read about it. The people in this country *stongly* support their government and it's track record of growth, stability and success, and guess what - there's more of 'em than there are you, so under democratic rules, you lose. :)
;)
And before you start whining about democracy, how many of you voted for your CEO or board of directors? Get over it.
Iron bars prevented the escape of customers, who screamed vainly for help at the windows as the building burned. The cafe was located in a hi-tech sector of the city, with two universities. Most of the dead were students, according to the article.
New regulations will be drawn up for operation of these Cafes, and those who comply will be allowed to reopen. I suppose that firewalls, as well as fire escapes, will be on the list of requirements.
To be honest, does one fire in one cybercafe really justify the closure of all such establishments?
:)
No of course not! It justifies the closure of the entire internet for safety reasons however! please unplug your computer now
--see thats a joke people.. humor.. itz a good thing..
I can see that the chinese government is getting pissed off on all starting internet cafés. It will eventually kill the great tea-culture. What is needed is a proper Internet tea-house that serves both tcp/ip and Assam, Darjeeling, Jasmine and Green tea.
Of course it can be... Look at India. Sure, the government collapses once in a while, but I think India's a lot harder to run: $2.2k GNP per cap, vs China's $3.6k GNP, massive ethnic strife in India and interests from so many different states, etc.
My point is that India is a pretty radical experiment in democracy... just consider the expense of running elections in a place that has a $2200 per capita GNP.
..anymore than "Dog bites man - while he's at his computer"
There is no way Slashdot would have posted this article if the fire had occurred in any other form of business in china. And trying to pass this off as a human rights/totalitarian government issue is bullshit too.
this is something to get upset about
This is a government going nuts
But this story, is standard practice worldwide. Illegal operations lead to loss of life, crack-down ensues. How much more commonplace can it be?
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
When I first saw the AP story, and later on the network news (Headline, ABC World News Now, MSNBC) I thought about posting this but I figured nahh!
One source, I believe Headline News, said the bars were in fact put on the windows by the government, although they didn't give a level of government.
They first reported that the fire started at 2:30 AM and some government officials (city level) had claimed it went out in 15 minutes; although another source said 45 minutes.
They claimed that the cafe was only open because they are close to the college but they vaguely implied that it was only open because the city watched them or something - didn't make sense.
So from the first reports it sounded like the city let them use the internet, the fire sounds like it was actually started by someone who works for the chinese government. Then they show up, put the fire out but it burns somewhere between 10 and 60 minutes killing, what, 24 people?
The people who did the saving was the other citizens; they showed pictures of mainly citizens pulling people out of the windows.
Then again I'm crazy - sounds like things that happen.
Get your Unix fortune now!
It's very clear that the illegal net cafes are shut down because they're a hazzard to the patrons. Slashdotters are linking it to internet freedom because of the rampant anti communist feelings around.
As for the anonymity of surfing in an internet cafe as opposed to home, there isn't any, since the government could just required all net cafe to keep a log of their patrons. China have universal ID cards so that won't be hard.
Just think about what would happen if this was in the US. Kids die in illegal net cafe/pub/dance party warehouse because there aren't any fire exits. Wouldn't you think the parents will all be in an outrage to close all these unsafe places down?
well, lets suppose a fire broke in a netcafe in the US or some other EU country . DO you really think that the authorities would respond to it by shutting down alla the net-cafes?
If you want to make a fair comparison, you have to keep in mind that many of these net-cafes were underground, illegal operations. A better question to ask would be, lets suppose that a fire broke out in a crack house in the US. Would the authorities respond to it by blaming their own War on (some) Drugs, for turning a disease into a crime in the first place? Would they review the policy that created this illegal underground? Or would they use it as an excuse to step up their efforts?
Criticize the Chinese government all you want - it certainly has its problems. But, let's drop the holier-than-thou attitude, please. Our own government is just as filled with opportunists who would jump at a situation such as this, and use it as an excuse to push their own agendas. For a real-life example, one needs look no further than the FBI since 9/11, and their efforts to extend their power in the guise of "defending against terrorists."
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
Is see so many people react to this as if this has something to do with human rights. Claiming that the chinese government is probably trying to close down all the illegal internet cafe's to prevent uncensored surfing.
HELLO! REALITY CHECK!!! If they can close down all those Internet cafe's now they probably allready know where they are and they did not bother them until now. They HAVE TO close down all the cafe's to check if they aren't possible deathtraps as this one was. The city's mayor is held responsible for things like this. Too many people died just because the place was vitually locked on all doors and windows making it impossible to flee the place. It wasn't the government that locked these doors, it was the owner of the place who is responsible for all this.
Furthermore, why cry for this to be a HUMAN RIGHTS issue? In the states things are far more worse than you can imagine. Not only government trying to govern the Internet (think about the webfilters in library's and at schools or even about Carnivore) but also companies try to do this. Think about MSN and AOL.
Of course there are human rights issues in China. No doubt about that, but this is common sense. If you were a mayor of a substantial city what would you do if this happened in your city under your RESPONSIBILITY as you are obliged to safeguard your citizens. My guess is that you would close down as many of these places as you can to prevent a recurrence of the tragedy only to open up those which DO follow fire hazard regulations.
In greece, to run a net cafe, as well as have conform to strict regulations (or send certain "incentives" like 300 euros to the mayor), and pay 75 euros a year per computer. Something to do with online gambling laws.
no, they would rather run over college students with tanks in temitan square...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
It depends on where in China, but I expect you're correct for Beijing.
The bigger issue here is who can afford to have their own computer at home. Most students, certainly, can not. That's why Internet cafes such as this one (in the University district) are so popular.
I agree with the gist of your message, though. This isn't about trying to prevent Internet access.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Just think about what would happen if this was in the US. Kids die in illegal net cafe/pub/dance party warehouse because there aren't any fire exits. Wouldn't you think the parents will all be in an outrage to close all these unsafe places down?
It happened in 1942, but rather than close down all the bars, it was the start of the enforcement of modern fire codes.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
These internet parlors are rooms with lots of people and computers. Imagine a hole-in-the-wall pub with cheap drinks operating without a license. We called those bars "drink and pray's" because you drank cheap beer and prayed the building didn't catch fire. These internet parlors are the same type of thing. Being illegal meant they keep semi-hidden which generally means a lack of safety features.
The fact they could be closed down so quickly means they operated with the government turning a blind eye. I'm sure officials were NOT receiving bribes to ignore them. That never happens.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
It's killing many birds with one stone. Some reasonable, some not necessarily so. 200 to service the needs formerly filled by 2,400 is extreme. Other measures could have been taken, but this seems usually draconian. Rather than address the conditions before the fire, they use it as the club to subdue the people, yet again.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I lived in China for a while. Almost no one obeys the fire code. It wasnt so bad when most buildings were one or two stories, but now lots are built up multi-story and sky-scrapers. Its really scary and you must be alert there. So there must be an additional angle for singling net cafes out. I think it is more that they are an in-your-face profitable illegal business (like half of small urban businesses) rather than free speech. Also many of the victims were young students, and parents (in every country) get more upset when childeren are involved, partiucalry only-sons in China.
The students are killed as all possible exits were either blocked or locked up.
... these sorts of things are documented to have happened historically in the United States as well)
The building has only one entrance/exit, and it was locked at the time of fire, and the windows were barred with steel. As a matter of fact the owner didn't get proper license to open an Internet cafe and the door was always locked to avoid inspection.
Two points you should consider in all this (please note that this isn't intended as a slight against China
1) Making a service illegal often leads to safety issues like this. Speakeasies during prohibition in the United States, unsanitary abortion clinics in the United States prior to Roe v. Wade, etc. The answere isn't to shut down all internet cafes, as if the demand is strong enough they will reopen regardless, perhaps even more secretively, and likely be just as unsafe as before.
2) Have you considered the possiblity that the fire was deliberately set by agent provocatuers, in order to manufacture an excuse for a widespread crackdown? What better way to turn a very unpopular move into an acceptable one "we have your safety at heart, that's why we must take away your access to information that we don't want you to see"? Again, this sort of thing (though generally without the loss of life) has happened in western society more than once.
Of course, I'd expect people in Beijing has tough time accessing Internet in the future, as the conservative people would sneak chance to impose more restrictions.
Creating conditions where such an action becomes popular is a time-honored method by doing exactly this: sneaking it "through the front door" so to speak, in plain view, because the frightened masses have suddenly started demanding exactly what before they would have fought tooth and nail to avoid. Whether it is exploiting happy circumstance, or manufacturing such circumstance, nearly every government engages in this despicable behavior, including my own right now in response to 9/11 (USA).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
They might be able to afford dialup...
but most can't afford a COMPUTER!
Read the damn CNN link, for god's sake,
From the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (AP-Asia):
Beijing Orders Internet Cafes Closed
Monday, June 17, 2002
Last updated at 2:06:53 AM PT
By AUDRA ANG
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
BEIJING -- Beijing has ordered its 2,400 Internet cafes to close for safety inspections after a fire that killed 24 people in the Chinese capital's university district, state media said Monday.
The owner of the cafe where the fatal fire broke out before dawn Sunday has surrendered to police, said a woman who answered the phone at the district administration office. She wouldn't give her name or any details, and police weren't immediately available to confirm the report.
Mayor Liu Qi ordered Internet cafes in Beijing to close while the city draws up new regulations, the official Xinhua News Agency reported.
Cafes that can't meet safety and other standards will be shut down and their property confiscated, Liu was quoted as saying.
Those that meet the standards will have to reapply for licenses, although the mayor added that he did not want to encourage an increase in the number of cyber cafes, which are immensely popular in this city of 12 million.
Xinhua said just 200 of Beijing's 2,400 Internet cafes are properly licensed. Many are typically smoky and crowded, located in converted residential buildings or other spaces not necessarily equipped to handle large numbers of customers.
The fire at the 24-hour Lanjisu Cyber Cafe in the lively Haidian university district broke out early Sunday, when most of the customers were students taking advantage of lower Internet access rates.
Neighbors said they were awakened by screams for help.
A survivor, who was identified only by the surname Li, told the state-run newspaper Beijing Times that there were about 30 customers at the cafe, which could seat 100.
"It was around 3 a.m. when I smelled GASOLINE and saw thick smoke coming up from the bottom of the stairs," said Li, who went to the cafe with about 10 other students from Beijing Technology University.
"I told a cafe employee who went downstairs to check. He yelled that there was a fire and we all tried to escape," Li said.
Li said the fire had blocked the stairs and people began yelling for help through the windows, which were covered by iron grills. Neighbors managed to unscrew one grill and Li said he escaped with about seven other people.
...
[Insert pithy quote here]
Something like this couldn't happen in, say, a bar full of drunks or perhaps a grocery store full of kid-toting mothers? What about a baseball stadium full of sun burnt, half lit aficionados? Hell what about a cubicle farm full of irate programmers? I think this fire could happen anywhere. Their communist government is just looking for reasons to police information. I foresee a violent uprising in China against the government in the next 10 years or so.
If you are in China and are working to circumvent their filtering of the Internet, even if is for your own "Western" eyes, could still be illegal. Personally I am scared shitless of the Chinese government, I worked out there for a few months when I was with EDS, and damn dude, it is another world.
One can reasonably ask why the cafes were all illegal. Surely not all 2200 of them were death traps.
70 years ago, the United States tried clamping down on booze and speakeasys were the market's response to an absurd prohibition. Looks like China is going to have to learn the same lesson - clamp down on something people want and they'll find another way to get it, sometimes with disastrous results.
Speaking of 70 years ago, that's about the same time as the Reichstag Fire. Seems the Nazis wanted something to hang a cause on and so they set fire to the German Reichstag and blamed the Communists. I mention the Reichstag connection because of this odd quote from The Guardian
Odd thing that - smelling gasoline in an Internet Cafe.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=31692&cid= 3411995
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All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
maybe even less, so its no wonder the Chinese Government is shutting the whole lot down until the Cafe's pass some rudimentary fire instection.
Sorry for the libertarians out there but this is China reacting to a previously unregulated situation where people DIED.Sorry but this is a country which eats what we in the West consider to be pets. Think about that first.
The Chinese have a world-wide long tradition of disregarding safety codes, sanitary codes and would serve "long porc" if they though they could get away with it.
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Most Beijingers cannot afford a computer. The upper class can, but the large middle and lower class cannot. So they can't have internet access at home even though the monthy fee for it is quite reasonable.
Do your friends live in foreigner housing? Housing which is set aside for for westerners typically has alot more free access to internet and TV than domestic housing. In western hotels you can get CNN and unfiltered Internet, but not in private residences or public Chinese housing.
When I was there getting Slashdot was no problem at all, but CNN was always blocked.