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Bioware Revises NWN EULA
malaire writes "Assistant Producer Derek French of Neverwinter Nights has posted the new EULA for all to see. This addresses most concerns raised by the community about user-created content for the game." Our story noting the EULA concerns makes interesting, if somewhat confusing, reading.
Okay, if anyone actually bothered to READ the EULA, they will see that Bioware has actually done a Good Thing (tm). Now you actually have to distribute your module, as opposed to simply "serving" it. Which I suppose means that if 5,000 people play under me as a DM, they cant touch it, but if I send it to Billy Bob jr to play on his Lindows machine, its fair game. :)
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
I've already bought this game on the promise of a multiplatform game that will run on my linux machine out-of-the-box. Bioware ships the game with no linux client - with the old 'linux client to follow' excuse. Now this.
... of course, none of this will matter, because the 200 people that are about to post 'don't buy the game', 'let your wallet do the talking' or 'boycott Bioware' will be doing the same damn thing I'm doing today - calling the store like madmen so we can skate work early and begin playing.
We just can't catch a break
6. Revocation of Rights. Infogrames and/or BioWare may at any time and in their sole discretion revoke your right to make your Variations publicly available (whether you are Distributing or Serving), provided that Infogrames and/or BioWare shall not revoke your right to Distribute a Variation if Infogrames and/or BioWare is, at the time of such revocation, using or distributing such Variation.
:)
So they actually put in their EULA that if they sell a expansion pack with your mod in it, they won't take away your distribution rights of said mod just to bump their profits.
From section 2:
;-)
You may not copy, rent, lend, lease, sublicense, distribute, publicly display, create derivative works based upon the Software (except as provided in Section 3 below) or otherwise commercially exploit the Software (including, without limitation, hosting pay-per-play servers).
Copy, rent, lease, sublicense and all those junk I understand, but forbidding me to lend it to my friend is going overboard. Ah, well, I'll just have to exchange it for another game then
Also, since the end-user can't publicly display NWN, it seems like they'll be releasing them in nondescript black boxes then...
Im still looking for the part where I agree to give my soul to bioware when I buy the game. That always hapens when I buy one of these games.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
Well, this is good news; the rewording is a large step in the right direction although they still haven't crossed the finish line yet.
;)
Essentially they have revised the clause everyone was upset over to read "we can force you to stop giving away your mod, but only if we're not selling it too". This addresses the concerns people had with Bioware stealing their customers' mods, while still giving them a legal right to stop the distribution of mods they/someone finds offensive. While cencorship is still implied, it at least removes the possibility that they can unfairly profit off your hard work.
However, they still added the weasel words that would allow them to include your mod in a CD they're selling and not give you credit for it. While it does they they will make every effort to give you credit, it does not say they *have* to; in fact they give themselves permission to forget; so it basically still boilds down to "we'll give you credit if we feel like making the effort".
Oh well, if your mod is that popular, people will most likely have already heard of you and know you made it. I know that I for one now feel no hesitation in designing and distributing my own mods; whether people will want to play them is another matter.
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
That is, the EULA says they can't revoke your right when they are using or distributing your stuff; but, they leave the door wide open to take away your rights...and THEN start using and distributing your stuff.
I don't see why a court wouldn't. You agreed to the license, and thus relinquished your rights.
Only in the software business does this perverse atitude exist.
;) )
Modifing an existing product and selling the modification is a true american princepal.
Examples:
You buy a new car and figure out a way to increase its horsepower with $20 dollars worth of parts, and procede to sell the modification kits on ebay for $30 dollars. Not only is this very very legal, it is also quite widespread (car fanatics are everywhere
You buy a portable gaming system that for reasons totally unknown has no backlight, and design one and sell it on your own website. Huh, never heard of this one, huh?
Wake up, no matter what some silly EULA says, aftermarket modifications that you spend your time on are yours. If you spend 80 hours on a modification, and its completly your own work, no judge would let a company steal those rights from you because of some contract you did not sign before the sale. If you sign a contract before the sale, now, thats entirely different.
It doesn't really matter if you read it... you're still responsible for having read it and will be dealt with as such. Read it. Don't read it. Users will still be accountable for what it says. The revision is nice to see and shows that at least some people are paying attention.
Have a Happy.
What happens if you release your mod under a specific alternative license? Which one overrides? Would make an interesting case :-)
Have a Happy.
Level designers do this all the time. It's a nice sure way of ensuring posterity and guarantees people will pay some attention to the name of the author.
I'm sure Bioware is just covering it's butt for the case where somebody felt they weren't given 'enough' credit. Put a nice easter egg in your maps which clearly identifies you as the author and you'll be guranteed your authorship will be hard to remove even accidentally.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
I hate reading posts like this from people who have no clue and didn't follow the community for the last three or so years like some of us did.
The reason people are upset with no linux binary is because THEY SAID THERE WOULD BE ONE. In fact even stores thought there would be one, so people ACTUALLY PUT MONEY DOWN ON A LINUX VERSION!!
This is like Nintendo promising Mario for the Genesis - going so far as to say it hundreds of times - and have it on their webpage - announce in stores that mario for the genesis was coming so you had better preorder now - thousands of peole "buying" it - and then nintendo saying "Nah, we don't feel like it any more"
DONT COMMENT ON THINGS YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT!
I am a linux gamer - but I am NOT that upset over this whole thing. I am buying the game tomorrow (already preordered at Gamestop) - and will be dual booting - then when the binary comes out I will use that in linux.
Derek
You agreed to the license, and thus relinquished your rights. The parent is making two points that you overlook: - He questions the legality of click through or shrink wrap licensing: can a contract be binding without a legally binding signature form? The key problem here is that there is no way to verify *who* agreed to the license. - US law prevents you from being bound to illegal clauses in an otherwise valid contract. Even if you had a contract with Bioware (see previous), can they force you to assign the rights to your intellectual to them? Interestingly enough, it would only take a change in a few words for this to be remarkably like the GPL. What if the FSF *required* the copyright of a derivative work to be assigned to the FSF?
While the enforceability of EULAs is still being tested in the courts and tweaked by the likes of UCITA, it is copyright law that dominates, here. Copyright law grants to the author the exclusive right to create derivative works. You cannot mod, so to speak, "Gone With the Wind."
There was (and may still be) a group working on a Matrix FPS mod. It's a waste of time, because Warner Bros. has granted an exclusive Matrix license to a commercial game company. If the mod is any good, it will be suppressed, just like the Alien TC for Doom.
The NWN EULA adds to, rather than detracts from, fair use. I just don't find the additional grants compelling.
I am merely pointing out that by agreeing to the EULA, you're agreeing that Infogrames/Bioware can revoke rights
OK, and what if I don't agree to the EULA?
I install the software anyway (perfectly legal under First Sale and Fair Use doctrines), use it to make my own mod (which is 100% my own work).
What then?
I would like to make content for NWN, and I would like the ability to distribute it how I like, and retain my own copyright (preventing Bioware from taking away my rights - they may if they wish agree licensing terms with me for my copyrighted work).
So, I buy NWN, take it home, fire up the installer and then I get my flatmate to click the 'accept the license agreement' button. Next, I play NeverWinterNights, and use their tools to create my own content. I distribute my new content *without any of their original content whatsoever* included.
Problem solved? I'm not sure.
1] Is it possible to distribute NWN content without any original content?
2] Is there an EULA clause saying 'If you install this software, you may not allow anyone else to play the game, or use the tools?'
The first question is whether a work is derivative. Much of the debate over the "viral" nature of the GNU GPL is actually a debate over what constitutes a derivative work. Does inclusion of a header constitute derivation? What about a plugin, which may essentially use a naming convention?
I don't know the ins and outs of NWN modules, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that one could be held to be derivative.
What "Rights" exactly. You buy the game if you agree with their conditions. If you disagree, you don't buy it. Simple.
With most software, you don't get to *read* the EULA until you've already bought it, opened the box, broken the shrink-wrap on the CD case, and started to install it.
Then you get to read the EULA in a little tiny scrolling textbox.
If you agree to their conditions, fine, you click on "Accept" and you continue the installation.
If you disagree, you stop the install, and immediately run into a problem. Most stores won't take opened software back - unless the media is defective (IE: the cds are scratched and won't run). Depending on the store, you *might* be able to convince the manager to allow the return - but most of the time they'll point at their "store policy" which says you can't return it.
So...what to do? You can't generally go to the manufacturer, as they don't take returns of software purchased elsewhere. You can't return it to the store you purchased it from, for the reasons above. You're basically stuck with software that you won't install, and can't get a refund for.
In most other industries, if you have to agree to a contract before using a product, that contract is offered up front, before purchase, and your point is valid -- "Don't like it, don't buy it". But with software, in most cases, it's quite tough to do that.
Kudos to Bioware for actually publishing the EULA for review *before* purchase, at least for those who can find it. People who don't know it's published, or who pick NWN up as an "impulse buy" are still in the same sticky situation.
Wrong. I bought the software in *exactly* the same way I buy a cd or a book. Unless there is a contract signed by both me and the publisher that somehow restricts my rights under copyright, I am under no obligation to obey anything at all in the EULA.
How hard is this to understand? I walk into a book store and buy the book. I go home and find that the book has a slip of paper on the inside cover that states something ridiculous like "By opening this book, you agree not to lend, sell, or talk about this book". I would laugh just as much about that as I do EULAs. They are a joke, and there have already been court cases where they have been found invalid.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
You're distributing material that tells the engine to use their copyrighted textures, models... Unless when you save a module it also saves the textures, models, etc. in your module file. (I'm assuming that it doesn't as that would make the modules huge, right?)
It's kind like saying that because you used MS office to write your term paper, that MS owns the copyright to it. Which of course makes no sense.
Companies are well within their rights to stipulate any restrictions on the use of their products. If the consumers don't like it, they shouldn't consume it.
If you believe this, you don't know ANYTHING about how the real world works.
Suppose if a car company put put the phrase "By driving your car, you agree to give Ford Inc. your first born child, to use in it's new Asian Sweatshop." in it's "End User Driving Agreement", then everybody would have to give Ford their kids?
In a word - NO.
When you buy a book, you're not necessarily spending your hard earned dollars on the physical representation of what you buy. It doesn't cost $8 to produce a paperback. You own the cover, the spine, the pages but you do not own the story contained there within.
No, you are buying exactly one copy of not just the physical book, but the story contained within. The only thing that copyright gives anyone is the exclusive right to distribute copies of that work. That's it! It does not magically confer ownership of ideas to anyone.
You may sell your book under the doctrine of First Sale without having to pay royalties (or 'liscense fees' if you will) to the content owners, for that has already been paid once.
As can I sell or give away a copy of any piece of software I have legally purchased.
EULA's by themselves have been found legal, its parts in the EULA's that have not been legally tested.
Really?
"The Court understands fully why licensing has many advantages for software publishers. However, this preference does not alter the Court's analysis that the substance of the transaction at issue here is a sale and not a license," Judge Pregerson writes. If you put your money down and walked away with a CD, you bought that copy, EULA or no EULA."
You do not purchase something, you liscense the use of it.
The above court decision would clearly disagree.
Don'y buy the propaganda. It doesn't matter how many 'education' campaigns are waged by software publishers, it doesn't change the fact that you are, in fact, purchasing an item and not a license.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
What "Rights" exactly. You buy the game if you agree with their conditions. If you disagree, you don't buy it. Simple.
/. Everyone was pissed at the fact that Bioware claimed that they could distribute mods that you create and also prohibit you from distributing them, essentially stealing your mods. They tried to claim that the EULAs for most popular games do this, but every single example they gave got shot down because they were just plain wrong. This new EULA is only a slight improvement in that area. It still seems to allow them to revoke your right to distribute your mods, and then they can proceed to distribute the mod themselves. That's really not an improvement as far as I'm concerned, and I intend to write another email to the guy from Bioware to let him know this. Hopefully they will revise it again to correct the problem.
Or, in this case, if you don't agree with the terms, you let Bioware know that you don't, and why. That's what happened when the original story ran here on
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
First of all I am glad that the EULA has been changed and seems to meet better approval. We really should thank them for doing this. Unlike Blizzard Bioware have listened to their customers and have not sued them.
But, people are wondering about the Linux port, so here is what we know:
"The PC version of Neverwinter Nights will ship to retailers before the end of June. Linux gamers can anticipate the online release of the Neverwinter Nights server at launch and the client program shortly afterward. Linux gamers will still need the Windows version of the game to register at the Neverwinter Nights community site (http://neverwinternights.com) and to import essential game resources into their Linux server and game."
Thats from the press release, this was followed in the forums that Bioware are going to release those, but no mention is made about maintainability, we do not know if they are going to keep the Linux version up to date.
NeverWinter Nights is right now appearing in stores, and from what I heard the server version for Linux should be available this week.
To set minds at ease we figured that you need the Windows version to register the game as it contains the CD key, as well as the game data. We just await the installers.
StarTux
You should know, in the early 20th century book publishers included ex post facto contracts, very similar to the EULA, restricting your right to resell your book among other things. Congress declared that no such contracts will be enforced.
What if they included in the EULA that by using the software you give up the right to your first born. Now, clearly, even if you signed that before you got the product, such a contract could not be enforced. There are certain rights that can not be signed away by anyone at all. I'm not saying the rights which the EULA restricts can not be signed away, but stop making these blanket statements and pretending everything is black and white.
It's kind of like people's reaction to a monopoly of a non-essential good. "Well if you don't like their prices, don't buy it!" In an efficient market there are other factors besides what you're willing to pay that will decide the price.
DONT COMMENT ON THINGS YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT!
This is slashdot, what do you expect? Insightful, informative, and interesting posts? LOL
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Ok, they made changes, but exactly what changes?
Perhaps some industrious soul could post a diff between the old and new EULAs?
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
embed your name in any custom graphics you create or name all the NPC's in the game after family and friends.
I did that in my D&D modules way back when, of course it wasn't to protect any IP rights I might have had.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
"The PC version of Neverwinter Nights will ship to retailers before the end of June. Linux gamers can anticipate the online release of the Neverwinter Nights server at launch and the client program shortly afterward. Linux gamers will still need the Windows version of the game to register at the Neverwinter Nights community site (http://neverwinternights.com) and to import essential game resources into their Linux server and game."
If the Linux version comes out later, and we need the windows version to register and import "essential game resources", does that mean we have to buy it twice?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Mac, on the otherhand, I am thinking is a seperate purchase."
yep, it's the difference between X86 and PPC, unfortunately that is the hardware tax my fellow PPC'ers pay, though unreasonably so since as well.. maybe they will include Linux d/ls for free with the Mac purchase, making you Linux freaks the common bond.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
That's the problem - there was no legal contract. A legal contract is what you have to sign when you take out a loan for a house or car, or accept employment somewhere. Do you think there is a court anywhere that would uphold a 'click-throuh' agreement on a home loan? Of course not, because it's not a legal contract. If it isn't in that case, it isn't in the case of software, either.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Really, I thought giving up a child was called adoption, not slavery. Hold on, let me check my dictionary.
Anyway, you can't give up your right to vote by contract, and they can't force you to vote Republican or Democrat by contract. You can't give up your right to free speech by contract (although they can prevent you from saying *specific* things.