Slashdot Mirror
Pledge of Allegiance Ruled Unconstitutional
VUSE g-EE-k and entirely too many other people wrote in about an Appeals Court decision holding that the Pledge of Allegiance, as recited in its current form in various public schools (often by law), is unconstitutional. The court's decision (PDF) is available.
Newdow acknowledged that his daughter was not required to say the pledge in school. But he claimed in court documents her rights were violated when she was compelled to "watch and listen as her state-employed teacher in her state-run school leads her classmates in a ritual proclaiming that there is a God, and that our's [sic] is 'one nation under God.' "
I am sorry but atheists really freaking piss me off sometimes. All they ever want to talk about is how they "Don't belive in God" and "Don't push your religion on me". Damn it, they are worse then Fundies. This guy should have just told his daughter that she didn't have to say it and go on with life, but instead he has taken something sacred to the majority of the people in the country and pissed all over it. Oh well, whats next, American Flag bog rolls?
I remember when the Euro was in the "design" phase, and Dutch people wondered what was going to happen to the words "God is with us", etched in the rim of the old Guilder coins. Some were upset over losing those words on our currency. (Side note: the Dutch 1 and 2 Euro coins still carry those words, but who cares?).
Those were fun discussions! Arguments about our multicultural society, and separation of state and church, were all swept aside with counterarguments about cultural heritage and such. But those in favour of those four words would look quite shocked when one would suggest to replace the word God with Allah. Funny how such things work two ways...
Anyway... is this even worth being upset about? As someone rightly said, the children in school mostly cannot grasp the significance of these words, so them saying "under God" isn't a big deal. If you're not religious, you can deal with saying God, right? If you are religious, will God suddenly smite the US in wrath because the two words are removed? If you are of another persuation, will you go to hell for saying this?
get a real issue to concern yourself with, people.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
May I point out usage of "God" in the Declaration of Independance? This is unconstitutional (even though it preceded the constitution) and therefore, the United States of America should IMMEDIATELY rescind this horrible document and transfer ownership back to England. Oh yeah, and they should send payment (plus interest and penalties) for the tea destroyed in Boston harbor. (And it'll be paid for with rocks and humans sold into slavery because our money, which holds "In God We Trust" will be ruled unconstitutional, and therefore, of worthless value.)
who cares about the stupid 14th amendment?
d000000dz!!!!!!!!!1111111 i don't no how 2 uze a www browzer!!!!!!1111 i have someone elze right my setencez 4 me!!!!!!!111111
Actually you just sparked something in my mind. Isn't our going after Bin Laden and Al Quaida an infringement on Muslims religios freedom? After all in their eyes we are the great satan, and all they are doing is trying to rid the world of evil. Who is to say what is evil and what is not? With a phrase like one nation under God as a basis for our nations foundation I think we have a very good ground to stand on for retaliating against them, but when you remove God completely from our culture you eliminate any ground we have to stand on.
Since this has gotten through our courts I think we also need to remove all of the hate crime laws as they favor one persons religious views over another. If my religion tells me to hate homosexuals I should have every right to destroy them, lest the government infringe on my rights. If I am a homosexual and I hate red necks I should be able to do anything I want to them because my homosexual "religion", for lack of a better term, encourages me to do that.
The point is that when we remove God from our society we remove the need for morals, because a moral code is basically what religion is, and what God represents to many people, therefore government can impose no morals on anyone, this means that there can be no laws at all, because laws are just an enforcement of morals. My religion tells me to smoke crack, rape women, and castrate white males, who is to tell me that I am wrong, certainly not the government, I am merely worshiping the way I choose, and you can not tell me otherwise.
You do not have to take having a phrase such as "In God We Trust" imprinted on our money as a form of the government imposing a set of views on you, just as a reminder that this nation was founded based on a certian set of beliefs. If you do not like those beliefs then I would suggest going to another country that put's their trust in King, or Queen, or Allah, or Fairy Jim. The point is that those countrys have a moral code that they live by too, and it is based on an idea.
The problem with this is that you may be able to get God out of society, but you can never get God out of men. Ask yourself why so many people believe in something that CANNOT be tangibly proven? Why some of the most successful, smartest, most powerful people the world has ever known put their faith in a being that has not physically manifested himself in over two thousand years? Because they are stupid? Gullible? Weak, feable minded? I dont know the answer to that question, I dont think anyone does, but removing the word God from our pledge, and from our coinage will not remove God from man.
I for one enjoy this, to me it just points to a battle that has only one outcome, a battle where one side has already lost. And the closer it gets to the buzzer sounding the more the loser trys to win. So take God out of the pledge, remove him from our money, burn his word, and eventually you will probably kill me for worshiping Him, I dont care, He does.
Signed,
A stupid, gullible, weak feable minded person
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
My understanding has always been that there is a freedom of religion, meaning the state will not force anyone to follow a particular religion
Freedom of religion also implies not HAVING a religion. You're missing the big issue is that people who are atheists are seeing their children being forced (by law) to recite an affirmation to a god whom the children are being taught does NOT exist. Imagine the ruckus that would arise from religious groups if the pledge were changed to "One nation, there is no God, indivisible, with liberty blah blah blah)
They'd shit a pigeon over it. And with good reason. No governmental organzition should dictate dogma (or lack there of) to it's citizens, let alone children. That's the reason the Taliban fucked up Afghanistan so badly. (as an extreme example)
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
"the government doesn't advocate the Judeo-Christian beliefs that it was founded on."
I Would suggest that you study a little real history instead of the drivel the so called conservatives spout. The Philosphy of the 17th and 18th Centuries played a far larger role in the founding of the United States than "Judeo-Christian beliefs".
I'll give you a big clue, in 1776 when that band of rebels were ready to formally break with England who did they select to lay the ideals that the new nation was fighting for on paper? Jefferson, a Deist, a man who openly admitted that he didn't beleave in the divinity of Jesus of Nazarath. Does that sound like the man who would be selected to launch a Christian nation?
Pull a Dollar out of your wallet and look at the back, just under the pyramid, and you'll see the Latin phrase "novus ordo seclorum" A New Secular Order. The founders of the United States intended this to be a secular nation, NOT a Christian nation.
John Locke had far more to do with the ideals of the USA than John and Luke.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and it was FOUNDED ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
Why do we have to give up our country and what it started as to all the crazies in our country, half of which aren't even native born.
I know that everything now is all about being politically correct and pro-choice, pro-homosexual, pro-minority this and that...
How much longer before the "normal" people are the ones that are the minority and have been stripped of all their rights?
Go ahead and mod me down. I know that most of the people on here are liberal with every belief, but man, I sure do like the way things were going before all this crap.
It really hurts to have all the things that I truly believe in stripped away from me just to make other people happy that probably shouldn't be here anyway.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Our founding fathers had very low opinion of Christianity and the bible which they voiced in their personal life: (taken from THE FAITH OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, by Dean Worbois) " Thomas Jefferson: "I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." (SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short) John Adams: "Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" Also Adams: "The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." James Madison: "What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." " Of course "god" can be many religions... Christianity seems to have the biggest pull in our government.