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Mac Hebrew Soap Opera Continues
Dark Nexus writes "The Register has a response (actually FROM Microsoft this time) in the continuing soap opera surrounding support for Hebrew (and other right to left languages) in Microsoft products for the Mac."
Microsoft's obvious anti-Semitism, demonstrated clearly by their refusal to support Hebrew in Mac Office products, belies an obvious similarity to the Nazi party.
In the interest of fairness, however, Office:Mac doesn't support Arabic, either.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Otherwise, Microsoft would have to cater to other languages with smaller populations as well. Logically, if Apple doesn't provide support, adding support in the MS product doesn't make sense, either.
I'm betting that there's a larger clientele than Hebrew out there. It's an artificial language, and is growing pretty fast, based on some stats (yes, yes, I know--lies, damned lies, and statistics).
Klingon. It's not widespread as Esperanto, but much hotter.
I bet the Cut/Copy/Paste commands in Klingonnase would be more proactive...like...
SLASH/CLONE/SMASH
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
I hadn't been up on this latest crisis, but I'm glad I took the time to read this. It seems incredible that after the US courts have declared Microsoft illegal, we still have to put up with this blatant anti-competitive behavior.
For those not aware of the background, a summary: the Macintosh is all but unheard of to Hebrew-speaking users (one guess as to who's to blame for that). The Mac OS doesn't support Hebrew in its localization framework, because any attempts at competing with Windows in this market would no doubt be futile. If Microsoft were to add Hebrew support to Office on the Mac, it would probably hurt their own Windows market, so by not doing this they are definitely being anti-competitive.
Also, Hebrew support would basically be free to Microsoft. Although there is no Hebrew scripting at the OS level on the Mac platform, Microsoft Windows has it, so they could just take the code right out of there and bypass the Mac's localization system at the application level. That's what I would call an elegant solution!
Let's hope Apple throws the book at them!
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
This "news" is oooold.
Considering Israel's antitrust law..perhaps it would be wise for Microsoft to stop selling Office for mac in Israel.
I'd say this is really old news.
Andrew Orlowski or whatzit seems more interested in looking Mac and the Apple look bad and doesn't care who he goes through.
Bashing Microsoft is great sport on The Register and they do a good job of it when they pay attention to little details like facts.
That's Orlowski's only problem. He makes up his facts as he goes along. Anyone else ever know Microsoft to turn down the opportunity to make a buck?
This guy is on a crusade of his own imagination and has no idea, or doesn't show any, of little details like costs and facts. The guy with the Mac unit at Microsoft writes him back and he ridicules him.
This is the same Orslowski that was ridiculing Apple a couple weeks ago for their "switch" campaign. He apparently didn't like the "real people" approach and wanted them to hire slick actors apparently.
If it comes down to bashing Microsoft at all costs and for any reason at all, at the expense of Mac users, then he's welcome to go huddle with his Linux friends if they can stand to have him around.
I'm not a Microsoft fan. Far from it. I resent how a country is linking business to political concerns. If I were Microsoft, I would drop Isreal entirely. It is too costly now to do business with them if they are going to try to strong-arm Microsoft with politics.
Why are people assuming that to add Hebrew to the Macintosh version of Office is not going to cost Microsoft money? Because some writer said so? Is it because there are a few engineers who want to add it themselves? That would require that Microsoft give them the code for Office (presumably). Why would Microsoft do that?
To support Hebrew in Macintosh Office may cost Microsoft money, and they may have decided that it would cost them too much money to be worth it. Let's not try to see shadows everywhere without evidence. They may not be abusing their monopoly power at all in Isreal -- we simply aren't privy to all of the facts.
Instead of whining, perhaps Isreal should take a cue from Peru and move to Linux? That way they can add whatever they want because they already have the source code.
I see this a lot; everyone, stop bitching about Microsoft and do something about it. Move to Linux. Alter the open-source code yourself. By now, it should be entirely obvious that complaining to Microsoft is like throwing stones at Hoover Dam; they don't care, and why should they?
You're nothing to them.
The point is, there is no way Microsoft wouldn't include the support if it was profitable , almost by definition.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Intel has a big investment in Israel. Intel and Microsoft are in bed together.
:-)
MS and Intel would rather have the Israelimarket to themselves.
They probably will.
--
I love conspiracies
I don't like Microsoft, but I can sort of see their point about the economics. After all, I would think that they'd have a hard time justifying adding Hebrew support but not Arabic. In the same way that they would face problems adding Arabic but not Hebrew.
There are a lot of zealots that tend to look for the slightest excuse to accuse others of raging anti-semitism or pro-semitism [?]. Supporting one but not the other of these languages would provide that excuse.
In the current global political climate, being seen to be fair sometimes means that both sides have to go without.
Orlowski is a former Be junkie now consumed with hatred because Apple chose NeXT and consigned his pretty (but ultimately almost useless) OS to the trash bin of history. And he knows he'll get page hits if he writes a mac story, and the more contentious he can make it the more hits he gets. The Register is dying and Orlowski is just trying to save his job.
"Can anyone explain why IE:mac and Outlook Express:mac support Zulu and Portugeuse but not Russian or Hebrew?"
Or incredibly, Arabic and Korean too.
300 million people speak Portuguese
200 million people speak Arabic
65 million speak Korean
8 million speak Zulu
Only 3 million speak Hebrew, and my guess is most also speak English. As for the Russians, most who are wealthy enough to afford a computer speak/read English or another more common language. So I think it is simple economics. Sure Israel will pay to add Hebrew support, but will they pay for the ongoing costs in supporting the language for years to come?
So all and all this is NOT a case of unfair competition (which I would prefer it to be, cause I don't like the beast that is Microsoft), nor is it a case of Anti-Semetism (which I am sure people are lead to belive it might be), it is a case of economics, plain and simple. Selling 2000 copies of some software program doesn't outway the issue of ongoing support over years and years. I am sure if Israel would agree to pay for the support forever then Microsoft/Apple would relent and take them up on the offer.
Aaron,
;-)
I'm not sure whether I should laugh, or cry.
Probably both...
-Ster
Two corrections:
I'm glad to see that there's Arabic support coming in 10.2. One question though: does anyone know if IE properly displays Arabic encoded pages when run under 10.2? Also, anyone have an idea about mail apps that properly display, and allow Arabic input? I know that Mozilla Mail can handle it to a certain extent, but I'd prefer to stick with mail app.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Word will still allow Arabic input and display Arabic documents correctly, but just will not be localized? If that's the only problem it's not a huge one.
Interestingly enough, in the last update of Messenger the Arabic names in my contact list now display correctly, and I can even read Arabic messages properly, provided that the Arabic fonts are installed.
Just for clarification, Apple supported Hebrew/Arabic long before Microsoft touched it, and did it better in my opinion. One of the things I like about the Arabic support in earlier versions of MacOS is that you could map the keys to their English equivalents, something Windows still won't let you do.
I don't think it's likely that Microsoft is anti-Semitic, especially considering their CEO is the world's richest Jew.
at the hands of militant Arab muslims bent on killing all the jews..
and they have time to bitch about this?
Good Lord.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
The register has posted another article on this saga. Here we read what some readers have said. One points out the fact that both the present and future cash flows must be calculated when looking at whether such a venture is possible. A few suggest that those complaining should just buy windows or get linux instead. I was rather shocked to see one mention that MS Office doesn't support Unicode! If this is true, then this is in no way Apple's fault. Nice try MS. My favorite was the mention of Koffice supporting it. If the open source community can do it, why can't you MS, or are you too busy making claims that open source software compromises security?
As usual with all comments, there are some good ones, and there are some bad ones.
You see? It's like I've always said. You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word.
Yes, I was as quick as you guys to jump on microsoft about this... but then I thought about it a little bit. Here's a better plan:
1) Wait until RTL languages are supported natively in Mac OS X (MWNY).
2) THEN Email MBU @ microsoft and complain about lack of support.
Honestly, how can you complain that microsoft doesn't support languages that apple hasn't yet included in the OS? [OS X, not 9].
-braxton
Microsoft has already been convicted of quashing competition. Competition is an essential tenet of capitalism. Hence microsoft is not an example of capitalism.
Microsoft has lost a case in civil court. This is not the same thing as being convicted. The term "conviction" only applies to criminal cases. The burden of proof is dramatically less in a civil case.
Competition is an essential tenet of capitalism. Hence microsoft is not an example of capitalism.
I am afraid you are mistaken (Your posting as an Anonymous Coward demonstrates that you already know that, of course) - capitalism is defined by individual rights for each to compete as they see fit. Pure capitalism is based on the idea of "laissez-faire," which is an extremely stark contrast to the actions the federal and state governments have been taking against Microsoft.
I have no love for Microsoft, but it is folly to say that they are somehow not capitalistic.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
If it was VERY profitable TO THEM!!! So, the entire industry must revolve around what is profitable to Microsoft and Microsoft only?
What if it was only slightly profitable to Microsoft to localize Mac software Microsoft guys will not spend $1 to get $1.05 even if it generates some goodwill.
IT IS PROFITABLE for someone else to do it, but they can't do it in Microsoft software.
We're right! Israel, go with Linux and have the whole kit in Hebrew if you want!
Wait... Who is "the entire industry" here? Isn't the point that this small group of people want Microsoft to include Hebrew support in Office for Mac? What does that have to do with industry? Microsoft creates a product and you either buy it or you don't. If they felt like it was profitable to add this feature, they would. Otherwise, they won't. Pretty simple actually.
Vote with your pocketbook - don't buy MS stuff if it doesn't do something you think is valuable. Or write your own word processor for Mac with Hebrew support and give it away, or try to sell it and put your money where your mouth is about "profitability." In the meantime, Microsoft is going to continue fulfilling its purpose, which is to generate profit for its shareholders. I don't see where any other interests would come into their decisions.
And goodwill? What is that worth? A bunch of people want Microsoft to do something for them for free? And they threaten legal action otherwise, while talking about "goodwill" on the side?
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
I don't get my nose out of joint over typos, etc., however I do compose my posts using a word processor (Either Nisus, or Word X). I find that in doing so that most of my post are free of obvious errors. I guess that I'm being a bit too particular in my posts, but it's really not that much extra effort.
No rant intended, just food for thought...
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian