Slashdot Mirror


Rep. Boucher Outlines 'Fair Use' Fight

A reader writes "AtNewYork.com is reporting: U.S. Congressman Rick Boucher, moving to strengthen "fair use" provisions under federal copyright law, said he is introducing a bill that would essentially restrict the record industry from selling copy-protected CDs."

27 of 315 comments (clear)

  1. yahoo by Patrick13 · · Score: 5, Funny

    send that man a CD Burner!!!

    --
    ::.. check out some Cell Phone Reviews
  2. So. by FreeLinux · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Honorable Mr. Boucher will be branded either a nut case or a heretic by the rest of the house.

    The wispering in the halls of congress has already begun. "Didn't he get his check from the RIAA yet???"

  3. unfair restriction by niloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I fail to see how it is a good idea to ban the sales of copy protected CDs. The record comapnies are more than free to sell them as such, and I would hate to see the even more legislation from the government telling companies what they can and can't do, especialy when it is in a situation where no harm can come to the users of the products. The Libertarian in me cringes at this idea.

    However, doing something like simply mandating a truth in advertiseing plan, so that CDs that are copy protected are labled as such, and ones that aren't are the only ones that can carry the Compact Disk logo would be a fine comprimise. And would also I think let the market police itself.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:unfair restriction by Titusdot+Groan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Copyright protection is a privledge extended to writers and muscians in order to incite them to create content. It is not a right.

      I have no problem with record companies distribution copy protected cds if and only if the copyright protection extended to them for these works is then withdrawn.

      Somewhere along the line the original intention of intellectual property laws such as copyright and patents has been lost. Somewhere along the line some people started to think of them as rights.

      I really hope legislators like Boucher can restore balance and some semblance of sanity.

    2. Re:unfair restriction by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the main tennants of his argument is the fact that the government mandated a tax on blank music recording media because the music industry was (supposedly) losing so much money to illegal copies. Now they are still collecting the blank media tax and selling copy protected CDs. Boucher feels (correctly, imho) that if the user pays the blank media tax then they should be able to make legal copies of the CDs they have purchased.

      Basically, the music industry wants it both ways and he is willing to stand up and say, "Wait a second here!"

    3. Re:unfair restriction by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Interesting
      My understanding, last time I met with Boucher, was that part of this is a truth-in-advertising bill. It would require that DRM-restricted material be clearly labeled as such. I haven't seen the text yet.

      I got to introduce Boucher and RMS.

      Bruce

    4. Re:unfair restriction by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, pirates used to board ships and (without any violence) make copies of any original manuscripts they found aboard, then sail off with their booty to the nearest printing press to sell copies in every port. The sea-bound authors, realizing they wouldn't have exclusive access to their works any more, would then kill themselves. Pirates killing people is a just a myth, and the current usage is completely acurate. No really. :)

      Nice link, by the way. I like the way that Jefferson man thinked. Maybe he could write up a few guidelines on how to run a democracy? That would be helpful. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    5. Re:unfair restriction by seaan · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I fail to see how it is a good idea to ban the sales of copy protected CDs.

      One simple reason, copy protected CDs make a mockery of the 1992 Digital Recording act. The RIAA already got the benefits (SCM added to DAT etc., blank media tax), and now they are trying to get away with not living up to their side of the bargain -- consumers have the right to make digital recordings of digitally recorded music.

      This is also the reason they should amend section K of the DMCA - the MPAA clearly broke the spirit of the deal. Both laws were written without anything to enforce the industry to live up to their side of the bargain, and they naturally want to fully exploit the law as it is currently written (I'll forgo detailing both industry's lack of ethics).

      Since both parties have clearly shown loopholes in the existing laws (making a killing in the process), it is time to close these loopholes and force them to observe their side of the bargain. What have you got against closing loopholes?

      PS: The subtext of this comment is a mock-libertarian stance, the record companies ought to be able to do what they want, and the market should deal with it. This ignores the fact that government regulations and rules are already very, very, involved (like the definition of copyright). This thinking that the current laws we have now are "natural", and the market can correct any problems with them is at best simplistic.

      I don't see why the poster does not remember libertarianism applies to individuals as well! The companies have already rigged the games with rules and regulations that take away individual rights. Where does he get off that this is a totally natural process. If you scrap the current copyright laws, and (somehow) manage to design them fairly, than I could appreciate a "let the market take care of it" stance. Meanwhile, I'm glad Rep Boucher is not waiting for this mythical time and is taking steps to close loopholes that rob the citizenry!

  4. Re:Contact info for Rick Boucher? by hether · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.house.gov/boucher/ is his web site
    and Ninthnet@mail.house.gov is his email address.

    --

    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
  5. Good step, but ultimately... by Junta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it is good to see SOME sort of recognition of fair use. However this stops short of really saying fair use is a 'right', it is more along the lines of not kicking the ass of people just trying to do fair use stuff. What *I* want to see is some sort of penalty imposed on companies who take measures to restrict fair use in dominant standards, such as DVDs. All these so-called copy protection schemes make the right to exercise fair use a moot point, if successful one cannot exercise these rights. There are already laws in place to cover illegal copying. Of course, currently it isn't econmincally feasible to use that path as they should, so there is an issue... Chasing down the mechanisms that *could* be used for copying is wrong, as is trying to prevent the ability to copy altogether...

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  6. Re:A Bill? by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yes.

    Because if 80 percent of the market is willing to buy them, the recording industry will go ahead and sell them. And when most all the music that is released comes on the copy protected format, then you are either giving in, or going without most music.

    Remember, all intellectual property-based transactions are already entirely the product of legislated fictions - if it involves royalties, copyrights, patents, or the like, it is a "product" that was essentially created by legislative fiat.

  7. So get off your @SS by rutledjw · · Score: 5, Insightful
    and write your Reps and Senators! Remember that a massive letter writing campaign kept Hollings' bill from getting out of committee. If we get going on the same response with this bill, all the better. We may help provide a backbone to our "elected officials" to stand up to the big corporate dollars.

    Remember, RIAA and the rest of the Horsemen of the Apocalpse aren't going to stand by. They'll fight this thing with every dollar, lawyer and lying press release they can dream up.

    This could be a HUGE momentum swing. Let's take advantage of it...

    --

    Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
  8. More Legal Issues? by Caradoc · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't think any new laws are going to fix any of the problems. Look at what's going on with Microsoft lately... Slashdot published a story about the meeting scheduled between the Phoenix Linux Users Group and the Maricopa County CIO to talk about the purchasing guidelines and potential for Open Source, but it looks like Maricopa County won't be "disbarring" Microsoft as a supplier, despite the clear legality of doing so after Microsoft's lost legal battles on the "monopoly" front.

    After about two hours (8:30AM to 10:30AM) I left the meeting with a much better feeling about my local County government - at least in the IT/IS groups.

    Linden Thatcher, the CIO for Maricopa County, struck me as quite literate in the issues that were raised.

    About 5% of the County IT/IS budget goes to Microsoft products, a vast majority of those being the 12,000 desktops they support. According to the statements Mr. Thatcher made, most of their "server-side" applications run on a mix of HP-UX and System V, with some apps running on Websphere.

    There are currently a couple of internal projects running Linux/Apache to provide document publishing.

    Mr. Thatcher has read "Ender's Game," and met Orson Scott Card (thank goodness we've got SOMEONE in the hierarchy who is not only literate, but READS!)

    The Phoenix Linux Users Group people who showed up were very polite, and there was only one person in the crowd who seemed to be almost violently "anti-Microsoft."

    Good meeting. But I still don't have any hopes that new laws are going to fix any of these problems.

    --
    Specialization is for insects. - R.A.H.
  9. Better still by Fast+Ben · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Send that man some campaign contributions!

  10. Rights by KFury · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My concern is with the kind of transaction record companies are making with consumers. When you buy a CD, are you buying the physical product, or are you buying a license to listen to the music?

    If we're buying the right to listen to the music, then we should be able to listen to in in other forms, MP3, etc.

    If we're buying the physical product, then the RIAA shouldn't be trying to tax record stores on sales of used albums.

    Basically, they can't have it both ways.

    the mot disturbing thing though is the ambiguity. There's no EULA to clickthrough or read, and I doubt the average consumer knows whether they're buying a CD, or buying the music on the CD. It makes a big difference.

    1. Re:Rights by Sangui5 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've always viewed it like this: when you get media, there is a "basic" license intrinsically and inseparably tied to that media. The basic license grants you certain rights, including but not necessarily limited to:

      1. the right to use
      2. the right to resell/lend
      3. the right to backup
      4. the right to "space-shift" (legalese for changing the format)

      The official view of the courts is that if the transaction has the quality of a sale, then it isn't licensing at all (they've also pretty much said that everything that's happened in any consumer store thusfar has had the quality of a sale). Thus, if it "feels" like a sale, then you have, if nothing else, the right of resale, lending, and space shifting (these rights have all been ruled on).

      The courts have not specifically ruled on any of the other rights *I* feel you have (that I know of), but (so far as I know) a pertinent case hasn't come up. It would seem pretty silly that you didn't intrinsically have the right to listen to a CD you've bought, though. And I'm also pretty sure that copying for archival purposes is protected by copyright law as well. So, 2 of my 4 are official, one is common sense, and, well, look # 4 up.

      In any case, by the doctorine of first sale, the RIAA can't restrict by legal means the used CD market. Nothing has been said about technological means, though, and it sounds like Rep. Boucher wants to restrict the use of technology to limit such things.

      Interesting note, but the doctorine of first sale stems from a case where a book publisher included a "EULA" in the front of their books, forbidding their sale on the secondary market. The court ruled that the interest of the publisher in that particular copy of a protected work ended after they sold it the first time, and that they couldn't limit what happened to it afterwards. So, by some stretch, there is precident for EULA's not having legal force.

    2. Re:Rights by crimoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're right on. Perhaps a few modifications:

      1.) the right to use for any means persuant to the remaining rules
      2.) the right to resell/lend the original as long as backups do not exist
      3.) the right to duplicate as backup in any format
      4.) the right to use the backup as long as the original is not in use

      I think that would satisfy any "fair use" issues for all parties that care....

  11. About "Fair Use" by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful



    Although I am all for letting the users (buyers / market) to decide whether or not something is worth to be purchased, methinks it will be a VERY BAD LAW if there is any restriction on the selling of the "copy-protected" CDs.

    Why ?

    Simply because, in the spirit of "FAIR USE", the producers of the CDs should have the right to enjoy the "FAIR USE" of the technology employed in the "copy protected CD".

    The only thing that I think is important in all these things is that THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY LAW PROHIBITING ANYONE FROM rendering the very technology that have been employed in the "copy protection" scheme useless.

    And that's the gist of DCMA - it makes EVERYTHING, or EVERY IDEA of creating NEW TECHNOLOGIES making existing ones useless ILLEGAL.

    Copy-protected CDs are NOT the culprit. It's the BAD LAW (DCMA and friends) that is hurting everyone.

    One bad law doesn't deserve another. We have enough bad laws already.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  12. legal status of copyprotected CDs should be simple by g4dget · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Copyright was created to encourage the dissemination of creative works, works that would fall into the public domain after some period.

    Copy-protected CDs don't hold up their end of the bargain because the work can't go into the public domain (more likely, it will simply become inaccessible after a few years as the DRM technology changes). Therefore, any content published on copy-protected CDs should not be subject to copyright protection: if people break the copy protection, they should be able to redistribute the content freely.

    The legal power and protection of copyright should be reserved for content that is actually published and that will eventually be able to fall into the public domain.

  13. Hardly by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I fail to see how it is a good idea to ban the sales of copy protected CDs. The record comapnies are more than free to sell them as such, and I would hate to see the even more legislation from the government telling companies what they can and can't do, especialy when it is in a situation where no harm can come to the users of the products.

    For the same reason the electronics industry is restricted from selling equipment which blacks out the radio reception in an entire building or neighborhood, or will tend to overheat wiring and start fires.

    Copy protected CDs destroy expensive equipment, such as Macintosh computers and some high-end CD players. Banning their sale is minimalistic Consumer Protection, something is country is in sore need of, and something which is utterly appropriate for the government to be doing. Not everyone can be an expert on everything.

    However, doing something like simply mandating a truth in advertiseing plan

    I too would very much like to see a return to Truth in Advertising. Unfortunately, the courts have ruled the corporations are the same as living, breathing human beings, with all of their rights (but none of their vulnerabilities). This has been explicitly extended to include freedom of speech that is no more restricted than individual speech (go figure), so there is little if anything that can be done to coerce a company, much less a cartel, into not misrepresenting their incompatible disks as CDs.

    If they want to sell a new, incompatible medium, they should be required to change its physical format such that it cannot accidentally be put into equipment it will damage. Requiring such disks to be 6" in diameter, instead of 4.5", for example, woud probably be sufficient.

    The Compact Disk logo is a trademark issue, but frankly it is too subtle for most consumers to recognize, so while Phillips will likely not allow such copy protected CD-resembling media to bear their logo, the customer will likely only become aware of that discrepency after their incompatible drive has refused to play the music they purchased (at best), or has been damaged or destroyed by the disk.

    This is not acceptable, and I am frankly amazed that anyone could argue that caveate emptor would be at all an acceptable standard of behavior, much less regulation, for something like this.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  14. The Basis of US Copyright Law by Infonaut · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There seems to be a fundamental misinterpretation running through many of these threads. The gist of it is that the US government shouldn't be legislating in copyright-related areas, as the marketplace should sort things out on its own.

    The correlary to this view is that copyright law (which extends all the way back to the US Constitution) was established primarily to protect those who create and distribute creative works. In fact, it was created as a compact between average citizens and those citizens or organizations that were provided with copyright protections.

    The underlying goal of this compact was to strengthen the culture of the United States for all its citizens. The underlying goal was never to provide special protections for copyright holders in some sort of vacuum of privelege.

    Interestingly, in their primer on copyright, the RIAA neglects this vial information. As usual, they cite the rights of the copyright holder, without pointing out that those rights are mirrored by specific and explicit rights given to the general public as part of the copyright compact.

    The RIAA essentially constitutes a cartel, and as such when they decide to endorse computer-damaging CDs or other nonsense, it's not simply a matter of consumer choice. Unopposed, the RIAA will get what it wants. What it wants in this case is to deny you and me the right to exercise our end of the copyright compact.

    As we're seeing now with WorldCom, Enron, et. al., even though the Congress is generally overly-lenient with big business, from time to time the politicians realize that it's in nobody's best interests for these people to be given free rein.

    I for one am happy to see at least one member of Congress who is willing to stand up and make this an issue. Cynics will call it grandstanding, or proof that he didn't get enough money from the music industry, and so on. But I see it as proof that the American political system can work.

    As others have pointed out, it's not enough to steal songs via Limewire all day in a "protest" against the RIAA. Sometimes you have to *gasp* get to know the issues, vote *double gasp* and stop whining that the system doesn't work.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  15. Re:RIAA/MPAA donations by SiliconEntity · · Score: 4, Informative

    A great resource for finding donors is www.opensecrets.org. You can find out who gave the most money to Sen. Hollings over the past 5 years (surprise - Disney is 16th!), or which members of Congress received the most from the tv/movies/music industries (Howard Berman, D-CA is number one), and lots of other goodies like this. It's an amazing collection of information.

  16. My Email --- Send yours yet? by peterdaly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here is my email to him, have you sent one yet?
    --------

    I am a computer professional who lives in Central Upstate New York. I just wanted to let you know I have been very impressed with the views you have expressed recently regarding fair use of recorded music, and CARP.

    In addition, I am strongly against many of the restrictions imposed by the DMCA, and am in favor the the modifications you propose. The current DMCA has very little to do with protecting copyright and very much to do with having absolute and complete control over the consumer. Without correction, I believe we are on a course to a world where we are unable to possess a copy of any digital IP, and will be charged every time we want to access it. This is very anti-consumer, and has nothing to do with the reasons "limited" copyright was ever granted.

    I would like to thank you for the views you are expressing, and would like to let you know I support you in what I have heard so far. I look forward to reading your soon to be proposed legislation. I will most likely be writing my representatives in support when the bill is released and numbered.

    I wish you represented my district so that I could give you my vote next time around.

    -signature with complete mailing address-

  17. BGM in Major record fix by oliverthered · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know how this didn't make /. but BGM are apparently withdrawing stock of 'Elvis V JXL' (currently high in the UK charts) to boost a 'kiddie pop' record in the charts.

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  18. And his campaign website is. . . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    www.boucherforcongress.com. There's even a web-printable contribution form. . . (sorry, he can't take PayPal...)

    I've met him. A politician with a clue is a rare thing. Let's not lose him . . . .

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. Re:Hooray for Virginia Democrats by rodgerd · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was not a "damn fine compromise" with anyone. Tipper Gore, like Al's fromer running mate Joe Lieberman, is an aggresive campaigner for censorship and has been since the early eighties. Her campaign against musicians mirrored the classic bluestocking campaigns against movies in the twenties and thirties, and comics in the fifties, hoping to obtain more censorship through sdaring the industry than could possibly be obtained through legal means.